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  #341  
Old 19.05.2014, 14:13
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Re: Does Switzerland need new fighter jets?

For me as a Romande, it was so refreshing to see so many Swiss German Kantons joining the NO to Grippen- not just the usual Basel S. and L, which are the most 'Latin' Kantons- but quite a few others, including Bern- and of course our Southern friends from Ticino too.
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  #342  
Old 19.05.2014, 14:15
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Re: Does Switzerland need new fighter jets?

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For me as a Romande, it was so refreshing to see so many Swiss German Kantons joining the NO to Grippen- not just the usual Basel S. and L, which are the most 'Latin' Kantons- but quite a few others, including Bern- and of course our Southern friends from Ticino too.
Maybe the Romande thinks they can "take" France in a fight - but the German Kantons have a little longer memory about their neighbour to the North?
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  #343  
Old 19.05.2014, 16:11
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Re: Voting tomorrow

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I'm not sure many surface to air missiles have an "escort the baddie out of our airspace" setting.
No, but it can quickly escort it from "our airspace" to "our groundspace"

But in any case, yes, a sad day for Switzerland, a country who likes to wear the "fiercely independent" name-tag, but will be forced to rely on US/EU to actually provide their defense and security
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  #344  
Old 19.05.2014, 16:16
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Re: Does Switzerland need new fighter jets?

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Maybe the Romande thinks they can "take" France in a fight - but the German Kantons have a little longer memory about their neighbour to the North?

Did you look at the map of the Kantons that said 'NO' - most are right on the border with Germany... whereas the 'yes' voters are very much in Central Switzerland- well away from the borders. Germany of course could have taken Switzerland anytime during 2nd world war- but it was commercially and otherwise better for them not to do so. I don't really think my dad and his mates on their army cycles really kept them out
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  #345  
Old 19.05.2014, 16:52
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Re: Voting tomorrow

Thanks for the groan.

Guess you need to upgrade your irony detector...

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  #346  
Old 19.05.2014, 17:17
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Re: Does Switzerland need new fighter jets?

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Did you look at the map of the Kantons that said 'NO' - most are right on the border with Germany... whereas the 'yes' voters are very much in Central Switzerland- well away from the borders. Germany of course could have taken Switzerland anytime during 2nd world war- but it was commercially and otherwise better for them not to do so. I don't really think my dad and his mates on their army cycles really kept them out
I actually think that's more the city versus the country vote. I'd like to see that map broken down in higher resolution but I would guess that in Zurich you will see a strong no vote in the city and direct suburbs and a strong yes vote out in the sticks. Schaffhausen has a tendency of following zurichs lead politically speaking.

I do actually think that guys on bicycles played a part in keeping the nazis out f Switzerland. It was definitely not the only factor but i wouldn't scoff at their contribution. The nazis were very good at terrorizing unarmed civilians. An armed civilian population may have appeared to them to be more bother than it was worth.
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  #347  
Old 19.05.2014, 17:27
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But in any case, yes, a sad day for Switzerland, a country who likes to wear the "fiercely independent" name-tag, but will be forced to rely on US/EU to actually provide their defense and security
which would actually be the case even if they bought a few dozen new shiny planes.

how can we start an initiative to pay the earmarked funds as a rebate to every household?

Last edited by 3Wishes; 25.05.2014 at 13:18. Reason: merging successive posts
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  #348  
Old 19.05.2014, 17:35
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Re: Voting tomorrow

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which would actually be the case even if they bought a few dozen new shiny planes.
Very true; even if we survived the first encounter with an enemy force we would have to land to refuel and re-equip.
There would not be enough of our planes to keep the momentum up and to protect our planes on the ground.
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  #349  
Old 20.05.2014, 00:07
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Re: Does Switzerland need new fighter jets?

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For me as a Romande, it was so refreshing to see so many Swiss German Kantons joining the NO to Grippen- not just the usual Basel S. and L, which are the most 'Latin' Kantons- but quite a few others, including Bern- and of course our Southern friends from Ticino too.
I do not exactly regard Zürich as a "Latin Canton" But Zürich generally votes with Basel and Geneva.

And, to put it the other way round, the next Defence Minister must be a Social Democrat
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  #350  
Old 20.05.2014, 09:33
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Re: Does Switzerland need new fighter jets?

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I do not exactly regard Zürich as a "Latin Canton" But Zürich generally votes with Basel and Geneva.
And Ticino, while a "Latin Canton", usually votes with Uri/Schwyz and the rest, and against the Romandie.

Pity they didn't this time.

Tom
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  #351  
Old 22.05.2014, 01:08
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Re: Does Switzerland need new fighter jets?

Here is an interactive timeline of the Gripen story from SwissInfo. I think it must have been a slow news day when they created this

http://www.swissinfo.ch/gripen/
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  #352  
Old 22.05.2014, 05:47
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Re: Does Switzerland need new fighter jets?

I understand the vote was a no to the plan for Gripen finance funds. There was no votation against the Gripen per sei.

Am I right, that we haven't heard the last word yet?
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  #353  
Old 23.05.2014, 17:08
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Re: Does Switzerland need new fighter jets?

I prefer drones and SAMs, kept by each Gemeinde, to defend our freedoms to enable us to maintain our neutrality, our banking secrecy for the individual and to continue to vote directly and democratically. The Soviet EU will take all this away from us.
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  #354  
Old 25.05.2014, 12:14
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Re: Does Switzerland need new fighter jets?

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I prefer drones and SAMs, kept by each Gemeinde, to defend our freedoms to enable us to maintain our neutrality, our banking secrecy for the individual and to continue to vote directly and democratically. The Soviet EU will take all this away from us.
A system of drones and SAMS is very expensive financially and needs lots of well educated engineers and observers, and so is miles behind the capability of communes.

No, if the army is given up as it most likely will, the Cantonal Police Forces will have to be equipped with good helicopters and some modern surveillance planes and maybe even some tanks. The detonation items (Mineur-Truppen) will also be handed over to the Cantonal Police Forces. As will the radar-stuff to survey the area. As the important cities/towns are in border-cantons anyway, the finance will not be a problem.

The system of troops "quarters" however will be changed into a system of big youth hostels and "Familien-Pensionen". Imagine Schweiz-Tourismus offering German tour operators lodgings for CHF 25 per night and per person Inbound tourism will flourish as never before
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  #355  
Old 25.05.2014, 12:31
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Re: Does Switzerland need new fighter jets and Police

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A system of drones and SAMS is very expensive financially and needs lots of well educated engineers and observers, and so is miles behind the capability of communes.

No, if the army is given up as it most likely will, the Cantonal Police Forces will have to be equipped with good helicopters and some modern surveillance planes and maybe even some tanks. The detonation items (Mineur-Truppen) will also be handed over to the Cantonal Police Forces. As will the radar-stuff to survey the area. As the important cities/towns are in border-cantons anyway, the finance will not be a problem.

The system of troops "quarters" however will be changed into a system of big youth hostels and "Familien-Pensionen". Imagine Schweiz-Tourismus offering German tour operators lodgings for CHF 25 per night and per person Inbound tourism will flourish as never before
A couple of Swiss Police forces already use drones, see here.
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  #356  
Old 25.05.2014, 12:32
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Re: Does Switzerland need new fighter jets?

After much thought, I've decided Swiss banks have basically paid vast sums of money to America, showing our allegiance to the American government, thus keeping Switzerland safe by assumed reciprocity of the American military in case of emergency.
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  #357  
Old 26.05.2014, 10:15
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Re: Does Switzerland need new fighter jets?

A US company Textron is developing a light weight fighter the Scorpion, which is sub sonic, and I believe would be ideal for the Swiss army.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Textron_AirLand_Scorpion

http://www.derbund.ch/schweiz/standa...story/29095300

Modern fighters are asked to fly sub sonic most times, even when on missions, to save fuel and avoid the need to return to base for refueling, thus keeping them in the combat area for a longer time. In addition, Switzerland being a small country does not need high performance intercept fighters, we need a stable platform for intelligence gathering and ground attack. I think the Scorpion plus ground attack armoured helicopters might be ideal.

.
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  #358  
Old 28.05.2014, 00:37
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Re: Does Switzerland need new fighter jets and Police

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A couple of Swiss Police forces already use drones, see here.
Exactly. Schaffhausen in many ways for decades had to pay for the background infrastructure, And so is and will be ready to support modern methods . Reality is that already three police forces use drones

Interesting is to see that the USA now offers a BELOW MACH-ONE fighter jet for less than 30% of the price of the Gripen .... and the French now suddenly offer the Rafale for less than the price of the Gripen. Had the French gone as that far, Mr Maurer would have supported the Rafale and would have WON. ... but they, mislead by their followers overhere did not see reaities
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  #359  
Old 28.05.2014, 00:39
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Re: Does Switzerland need new fighter jets?

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After much thought, I've decided Swiss banks have basically paid vast sums of money to America, showing our allegiance to the American government, thus keeping Switzerland safe by assumed reciprocity of the American military in case of emergency.
The "Scorpion" will possibly will be the way
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  #360  
Old 24.02.2016, 16:11
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Re: Does Switzerland need new fighter jets?

And we're off again.

New defense minister, Guy Parmelin, is getting his priorities in order and has started off the next campaign to get our Air Force a modern fighter aircraft to bring us up to date.
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