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  #361  
Old 24.02.2016, 20:59
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Re: Does Switzerland need new fighter jets?

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And we're off again.

New defense minister, Guy Parmelin, is getting his priorities in order and has started off the next campaign to get our Air Force a modern fighter aircraft to bring us up to date.
Since we seem to only need an air force during office hours, we can surely cut the number of fighters we need, no?
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  #362  
Old 25.02.2016, 09:52
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Re: Does Switzerland need new fighter jets?

New fighter jet purchase was asked to the people of Switzerland and was denied. So is it now decided to not to ask, just buy ?
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  #363  
Old 25.02.2016, 10:07
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Re: Does Switzerland need new fighter jets?

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New fighter jet purchase was asked to the people of Switzerland and was denied. So is it now decided to not to ask, just buy ?
Seems so.
The SVP are only interested in creating "anti-foreigner" referendums; they do not want to ask the public to decide on any real issues.
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  #364  
Old 25.02.2016, 10:09
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Re: Does Switzerland need new fighter jets?

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Seems so.
The SVP are only interested in creating "anti-foreigner" referendums; they do not want to ask the public to decide on any real issues.


Actually, what we voted on would now be _old_ fighter jets.... NEW fighter jets is a different matter entirely.
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  #365  
Old 25.02.2016, 12:22
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Re: Does Switzerland need new fighter jets?

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Since we seem to only need an air force during office hours, we can surely cut the number of fighters we need, no?
That's probably a consequence of the fact that the F5 isn't fully functional except under optimal conditions.

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New fighter jet purchase was asked to the people of Switzerland and was denied. So is it now decided to not to ask, just buy ?
Nope. The decision, just like that for the F/A 18 and the Gripen befor, will be subject to what's called "Fakultatives Referendum" (FR).

In order for a FR to be successful 50'000 signatures must be collected within nine months after a certain decision has been taken by the Bundesparlament, upon which a federal vote will be held.

The same already applied to the purchase of the F/A 18 (accepted) and Gripen (denied).
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  #366  
Old 25.02.2016, 12:35
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Re: Does Switzerland need new fighter jets?

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That's probably a consequence of the fact that the F5 isn't fully functional except under optimal conditions.


Nope. The decision, just like that for the F/A 18 and the Gripen befor, will be subject to what's called "Fakultatives Referendum" (FR).

In order for a FR to be successful 50'000 signatures must be collected within nine months after a certain decision has been taken by the Bundesparlament, upon which a federal vote will be held.

The same already applied to the purchase of the F/A 18 (accepted) and Gripen (denied).
Headline in Tagesanzeiger is that they want to buy new jets without a referendum, see here (German language).
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  #367  
Old 26.04.2016, 22:27
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Re: Does Switzerland need new fighter jets?

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why dont swiss people develop their own jets?
The cost of developing a fighter jet and getting it certified would be a lot more than buying cheap Gripens. In a few years the Chinese will be knocking them out for a tenth of the price.
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  #368  
Old 26.04.2016, 22:35
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Re: Does Switzerland need new fighter jets?

China is having difficulties of building aero engines. only three companies can develop jet engine independently in the world R&R GE PW. Switzerland had the first gas turbine in operational which was a big advantage and Switzerland still having leading edge technology in some scope of gas turbines now. Chinese needs at least 20 years to develop a reliable aero engine.
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  #369  
Old 26.04.2016, 23:00
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Re: Does Switzerland need new fighter jets?

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China is having difficulties of building aero engines. only three companies can develop jet engine independently in the world R&R GE PW. Switzerland had the first gas turbine in operational which was a big advantage and Switzerland still having leading edge technology in some scope of gas turbines now. Chinese needs at least 20 years to develop a reliable aero engine.
The Chengdu J-20 will change all that. The aircraft should be ready for production in 2018. Up to now testing is looking successful.
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  #370  
Old 11.06.2016, 16:15
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Re: Does Switzerland need new fighter jets?

What's scary in Switzerland is the gap between healthcare and defense costs.


For the current five-year budget-planning period, the Defense Departement had to fight to obtain a yearly CHF 5 billions budget


For the 2014 fiscal year, healthcare spending was deemed by the federal administration to be above CHF 70 B - 14 times the defense budget .


Most of these costs are supported by you and me, since they are mostly made up of either monthly insurance premiums, fiscal contributions, or direct medical payments.


The gap is already scary in America, with healthcare cost more than six times the approx. USD B 600 defense budget
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  #371  
Old 11.06.2016, 16:56
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Re: Does Switzerland need new fighter jets?

I would be much more concerned if it is the other-way round. Like Saudi Arabia which spends more on military than health care (Ratio is 0.44).

Switzerland, Luxembourg, and Ireland are comparable and have all a ratio of 16 to 17. Although they are in the top. Mauritius, Moldova, and Bangladesh have a ratio of 18, 30, and 2054 respectively (Where World Bank data is available).

A ratio of 6 is in the league of th EU, Norway. According to the World Bank data U.S.A has a ratio of just shy of 5, and Russia of just 1.5. That is scary.

If you add the all the EO payments and the additional paid wages by the employers, which totals more than 1.5 B to the defense budget the ratio for Switzerland is around 10. In the league of Sweden, Belgium, Japan or Canada.

Sources:
http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/MS.MIL.XPND.GD.ZS
http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SH.XPD.TOTL.ZS
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  #372  
Old 11.06.2016, 17:00
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Re: Does Switzerland need new fighter jets?

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The Chengdu J-20 will change all that. The aircraft should be ready for production in 2018. Up to now testing is looking successful.
This is planned to be powered by the Chinese WS-15 engine, development of this began in the 1990s so as the other poster wrote "China needs at least 20 years to develop a reliable aero engine" which sounds about right.

Meanwhile China uses Russian Saturn engines.
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  #373  
Old 12.06.2016, 08:14
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Re: Does Switzerland need new fighter jets?

They need atleast one new one...
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a7072936.html

Pilot appears to be OK though.
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  #374  
Old 12.06.2016, 13:07
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Re: Does Switzerland need new fighter jets?

>> ASwissintheUS wrote :
>> Sources:
>> http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/MS.MIL.XPND.GD.ZS
>> http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SH.XPD.TOTL.ZS


Thanks very much for listing this source. When I read in the press about all the people that allegedly died of cancer after undergoing brutal and costly chemotherapy, I frankly wonder if drugs don't kill more than weapons. But to stick to data rather than first-shot impressions :


Market value of Credit Suisse as of this Friday's Swiss Exchange cloture: CHF 12.08 x 2'032'897'378 = 24.6 CHF B

Market value of Roche as of this Friday's Swiss Exchange cloture : CHF 250.80 x 702'562'700 = 176.2 CHF B


To get to these quotes' respective page : just google 'six' plus the name of the company you've interest in (must be google.ch, not .com or else). The number of shares can be found in the 'details' section.


Greetings :-)
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  #375  
Old 12.06.2016, 13:50
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Re: Does Switzerland need new fighter jets?

Re: Does Switzerland need new fighter jets?

No I don't see any need for a Swiss fighter jet, - armed helicopters yes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrouille_Suisse
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  #376  
Old 13.06.2016, 16:48
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Re: Does Switzerland need new fighter jets?

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Thanks very much for listing this source. When I read in the press about all the people that allegedly died of cancer after undergoing brutal and costly chemotherapy, I frankly wonder if drugs don't kill more than weapons. But to stick to data rather than first-shot impressions :


Market value of Credit Suisse as of this Friday's Swiss Exchange cloture: CHF 12.08 x 2'032'897'378 = 24.6 CHF B

Market value of Roche as of this Friday's Swiss Exchange cloture : CHF 250.80 x 702'562'700 = 176.2 CHF B

To get to these quotes' respective page : just google 'six' plus the name of the company you've interest in (must be google.ch, not .com or else). The number of shares can be found in the 'details' section.

Greetings :-)
So if somebody has cancer and undergoes treatment, which includes drugs that were produced by big pharma, it's those drugs that killed the patient
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  #377  
Old 16.06.2016, 01:12
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Re: Does Switzerland need new fighter jets?

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What's scary in Switzerland is the gap between healthcare and defense costs.


For the current five-year budget-planning period, the Defense Departement had to fight to obtain a yearly CHF 5 billions budget


For the 2014 fiscal year, healthcare spending was deemed by the federal administration to be above CHF 70 B - 14 times the defense budget .


Most of these costs are supported by you and me, since they are mostly made up of either monthly insurance premiums, fiscal contributions, or direct medical payments.


The gap is already scary in America, with healthcare cost more than six times the approx. USD B 600 defense budget
Why is this exactly scaring you? to me it seems ovious that you have to spend more to deal with real threats, like cancer, rather than potential enemy, like Russian invasion.
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  #378  
Old 06.07.2016, 03:28
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Re: Does Switzerland need new fighter jets?

Now we know the answer to this question---so Switzerland can escort an Israeli airliner through Swiss air space after the plane received a bomb threat.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-is...-idUSKCN0ZL0WS
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  #379  
Old 06.07.2016, 09:35
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Re: Does Switzerland need new fighter jets?

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Now we know the answer to this question---so Switzerland can escort an Israeli airliner through Swiss air space after the plane received a bomb threat.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-is...-idUSKCN0ZL0WS
I read that the careful Swiss Air Force has not yet implemented a 24 hour 7/7 defence service, but it is coming soon.

That escort service must have been during office hours, as a passenger took a photo of the Swiss fighter plane.

How would the Swiss Air Force deploy the new fighters, when the enemy was on the ground in the alpine areas? For a ground attack a pilot needs to see the enemy for a second or so before firing. If he is flying at 200 Km/hr in a mountain valley, how will he make a ground attack without crashing into the mountain? The idea of buying fighter planes is completely stupid!
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  #380  
Old 06.07.2016, 13:15
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Re: Does Switzerland need new fighter jets?

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Now we know the answer to this question---so Switzerland can escort an Israeli airliner through Swiss air space after the plane received a bomb threat.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-is...-idUSKCN0ZL0WS
What is the idea behind escorting a plane with a threatened bomb on board? What can the escort do?
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