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Old 02.10.2011, 11:26
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Re: What Would Be The Swiss Response

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As a society (on average) we are far more flexible with accepting and integrating foreigners.
Indeed. The United States of America is an immigrant country. Switzerland isn't, really.

That isn't to say there is no immigration in Switzerland, but rather that its importance in the Swiss mind is nowhere near as great as in the American mind. You are all immigrants of one sort or another. Most Swiss are not.

Expecting Switzerland to be more like America in this regard is like expecting Switzerland to be more like Holland geographically.

It just ain't happening.
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  #42  
Old 02.10.2011, 11:29
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Re: What Would Be The Swiss Response

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This is indeed a pointless thread, started totally on a wrong premise. All these so called "foreigners" with "accents" criticising the US are US citizens and in fact highly paid media personalities with huge followings, who are very visible. They are hired for their views, and because their shows are watched or their websites read not only the US but around the world, and because their views resonate with their viewers/readers.

I read Huffington Post or watch Farid Zakaria or Christian Amanpour ( not with CNN now by the way) not because of who/what they are but because of what and how they present and how that appeals to me.

Even is Switzerland if such shows or websites were to be started, they would be accepted or rejected for the presenters' views. I dont think anyone would take into account if the presenter was a foreigner with an accent.

The whole "foreigners with accents criticising their adopted country" sounds very contrived to me.

To you...

my girlfriend is Swiss, sitting right here, and she thinks many Swiss people (at least where she is from in St. Gallen) would be offended.

That is my experience with Swiss folks as well.

I can't speak for your experience.

As far as Zakariah, he became famous in the U.S., not "internationally" he is based at CNN in the U.S., not CNN International. He sells internationally, yes...but his core audience, where he sells the most books is in the U.S.

He routinely critisizes U.S. foreign policy and U.S. economics, political figures, etc.

I'm sorry, but I think you are a bit in denial if you think the average Swiss person wants to hear an Indian Muslim with an accent taking shots (no matter how rational and educated) at Swiss institutions and leaders. Nationalism is much higher.

People like comparing Switzerland to rural Southern America to make some type of point. Well, although it is obviously bias and idiotic, there is some truth in that, I can state pretty clearly (because I was born in a similar place in the rural Midwest) wouldn't like this type of thing either.

Thankfully in America most people don't live in those type of places and are not that closed minded. The situation in Switzerland is probably reversed. Most people do think like this, and a minority do not.
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  #43  
Old 02.10.2011, 11:33
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Re: What Would Be The Swiss Response

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Indeed. The United States of America is an immigrant country. Switzerland isn't, really.

That isn't to say there is no immigration in Switzerland, but rather that its importance in the Swiss mind is nowhere near as great as in the American mind. You are all immigrants of one sort or another. Most Swiss are not.

Expecting Switzerland to be more like America in this regard is like expecting Switzerland to be more like Holland geographically.

It just ain't happening.

This is mostly true.

My point really was some folks on this board (and some people in real life) speak and act as if this behavior ("shut up and go home") is normal, other people act the same...blah blah blah. No, not really. Americans (on average) do not. And no this is not isolated to Switzerland. I imagine in South Korea, a foreigner doing this might be attacked on the streets in public. (okay I have personal bias against Korea I admit but there are violent nationalist there I have witnessed)...much of the world is between Switzerland and Koreans attitude i think.

Not all of the world though.
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  #44  
Old 02.10.2011, 11:36
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Re: What Would Be The Swiss Response

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This is mostly true.

My point really was some folks on this board (and some people in real life) speak and act as if this behavior ("shut up and go home") is normal, other people act the same...blah blah blah. No, not really.
Er, yes really. This is Europe. Our histories, cultures and worldviews are very, very different from those of the United States of America.

That's what several thousand years of living in roughly the same place does to a people.

Your roots are much shallower, so you see the world differently.

That's just the way it is.
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  #45  
Old 02.10.2011, 11:50
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Re: What Would Be The Swiss Response

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To you...

my girlfriend is Swiss, sitting right here, and she thinks many Swiss people (at least where she is from in St. Gallen) would be offended.

That is my experience with Swiss folks as well.

I can't speak for your experience.

As far as Zakariah, he became famous in the U.S., not "internationally" he is based at CNN in the U.S., not CNN International. He sells internationally, yes...but his core audience, where he sells the most books is in the U.S.

He routinely critisizes U.S. foreign policy and U.S. economics, political figures, etc.

I'm sorry, but I think you are a bit in denial if you think the average Swiss person wants to hear an Indian Muslim with an accent taking shots (no matter how rational and educated) at Swiss institutions and leaders. Nationalism is much higher.

People like comparing Switzerland to rural Southern America to make some type of point. Well, although it is obviously bias and idiotic, there is some truth in that, I can state pretty clearly (because I was born in a similar place in the rural Midwest) wouldn't like this type of thing either.

Thankfully in America most people don't live in those type of places and are not that closed minded. The situation in Switzerland is probably reversed. Most people do think like this, and a minority do not.
I am not at all in denial. I have been here long enough and have regular interactions with my Swiss friends on such issues. If an Indian Muslim is hired by SF or TSR or Tele Zuri or some such, I am sure his views (and that of the channel) would matter even here more than the the fact that he is an Indian Muslim. Admittedly, the level of tolerance in CH could be slightly lesser, given the fact that it is not a country made up of immigrants as opposed to the one like the US, and the populace is forced to come to grips with the ever changing demographics of their very small country.
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  #46  
Old 02.10.2011, 12:20
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Re: What Would Be The Swiss Response

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I cannot give an example of a woman of this kind, but they exist. But I can tell you about Nick Hayek that 200%-Lebanese who in reality is 50% Swiss and a Swiss citizen.
Wolli, I don't quite get that. Maybe, with your background, you know more than I do, but according to my usually reliable memory, Nicolas Hayek's parents were Lebanese (mother) and Lebanese-American (father), although Hayek is a surname occasionally found also in Austria, Bohemia and Germany. But Swiss? Please enlighten us.

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Old 02.10.2011, 12:25
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Re: What Would Be The Swiss Response

@ MRT:

I suppose your drive-by groans are because certain posts annoy you, but you don't actually have any counter arguments??
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  #48  
Old 02.10.2011, 12:36
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Re: What Would Be The Swiss Response

All the people I know in the US are 3rd or 2nd generation immigrants- be they from Scotland, Ireland, Italy - all over. In the late 19C one of my great uncles when to live in New Mexico and became a coy-boy - died aged 103 there. And in the 30s, about 20 young people from my Swiss village, including 1 uncle and 2 aunts were given 1 way tickets to Le Havre, and 1 way ticket to NY - times were hard and they just 'had to go'. They ended up all over. Their children, now in their 60s and 70s, feel strong affiliation to CH. The next generation, in their 30s and 40s- have a vague recollection that they have roots in CH- and their young children really haven't got a clue. When they visit, it might click that they hail from here perhaps.

This is what the US is all about, immigration, wave after wave. And those 2nd and 3rd immigrants really do not see kindly to other immigrants having the audacity to want to do the same, and live the same dream.
We were in Colorado recently, and racism was loud and clear from a large section of the population- same in every State we've travelled and stayed in, except in NY. Not towards us of course- as Swiss I am embarrassed to say I have never, ever, experienced racism of any kind, anywhere. So I am not saying that people in the US are racists, but that racism is very much alive in the US (as it is in most places- sadly).
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  #49  
Old 02.10.2011, 13:12
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Re: What Would Be The Swiss Response

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Er, yes really. This is Europe. Our histories, cultures and worldviews are very, very different from those of the United States of America.

That's what several thousand years of living in roughly the same place does to a people.

Your roots are much shallower, so you see the world differently.

That's just the way it is.
Oh, really? I'm European too, but I never knew that.

Identity, roots and culture are buzzwords used today to justify a form of social discrimination. Just like race and ethnicity were the buzzwords used in the last century. Identity is hardly a political or a social issue, because it's strictly a personal one.

In general, nationalist or patriots are usually a bunch of motherfuc|<ers who want to force people to conform to an ideal identity, that's just an hypocrite way to justify discrimination. SVP/UDC is playing this game.
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  #50  
Old 02.10.2011, 13:24
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Re: What Would Be The Swiss Response

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All the people I know in the US are 3rd or 2nd generation immigrants- be they from Scotland, Ireland, Italy - all over. In the late 19C one of my great uncles when to live in New Mexico and became a coy-boy - died aged 103 there. And in the 30s, about 20 young people from my Swiss village, including 1 uncle and 2 aunts were given 1 way tickets to Le Havre, and 1 way ticket to NY - times were hard and they just 'had to go'. They ended up all over. Their children, now in their 60s and 70s, feel strong affiliation to CH. The next generation, in their 30s and 40s- have a vague recollection that they have roots in CH- and their young children really haven't got a clue. When they visit, it might click that they hail from here perhaps.

This is what the US is all about, immigration, wave after wave. And those 2nd and 3rd immigrants really do not see kindly to other immigrants having the audacity to want to do the same, and live the same dream.
We were in Colorado recently, and racism was loud and clear from a large section of the population- same in every State we've travelled and stayed in, except in NY. Not towards us of course- as Swiss I am embarrassed to say I have never, ever, experienced racism of any kind, anywhere. So I am not saying that people in the US are racists, but that racism is very much alive in the US (as it is in most places- sadly).
What "racism" are you talking about? if you have not experienced any then what is this related to?

Also, no one ever said there are no racists in America, that is not the point of the article.

I'm not sure what your are adding to the conversation other than telling everyone exactly what they already know...
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  #51  
Old 02.10.2011, 14:37
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Re: What Would Be The Swiss Response

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Pointless thread:

America, founded a couple of years ago by some immigrants with strange hats, population 300 million:


Switzerland, founded before the fall of Constantinople, with a population of about 7 million:



What is there to compare?

For the record, I went to America once. I didn't like it very much. The cheese tastes weird.
Shut! DB you beat me to it

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Old 02.10.2011, 14:43
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Re: What Would Be The Swiss Response

Next thread OP "Why can Switzerland have a space program like the USA,or why doese Switzerland does not have any aircraft carriers .
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Old 02.10.2011, 19:32
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Re: What Would Be The Swiss Response

I am all in favour of foreigners bringing their fresh ideas to the country they live in. Except for Austrian corporals trying to improve matters in Germany that is; or the British head of state being descended from Germans.

Cheers,
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Old 02.10.2011, 19:40
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Re: What Would Be The Swiss Response

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I am all in favour of foreigners bringing their fresh ideas to the country they live in. Except for Austrian corporals trying to improve matters in Germany that is; or the British head of state being descended from Germans.

Cheers,
Nick
But when an Austrian ruled Germany the trash was always collected on time every single day. Problem is some of the "trash" were people.
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Old 02.10.2011, 19:44
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Re: What Would Be The Swiss Response

No racism has ever been shown towards me- but I've witnessed racism against others around me everywhere I've been, by some of the population. Seeing others hurt and insulted is very poignant and humbling.
But this happens everywhere and is not particularly a Swiss thing, unfortunately.

In the 50s in my village we had a huge influx of Italians. Many people treated them very badly- even as a young child, i couldn't understand why. Many of the second generation have done so well. One of them now is the owner of one of the most prestigious Watch Label in the world - and lives in a fabulous Mansion. He commands the respect of all and is one of the main employers here.
Other own many businesses of every kind and are very much accepted as part of mainstream here. Same with the Spanish and Portuguese who arrived a decade later. The 3rd generation totally integrated.
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Old 02.10.2011, 19:51
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Re: What Would Be The Swiss Response

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But when an Austrian ruled Germany the trash was always collected on time every single day. Problem is some of the "trash" were people.
ZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Fail of the yaer
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Old 02.10.2011, 20:08
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Re: What Would Be The Swiss Response

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ZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Fail of the yaer
Just for the record, that was a joke.
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Old 02.10.2011, 20:19
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Re: What Would Be The Swiss Response

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Just for the record, that was a joke.
That what I thought ,butt my post wasn't.What would you say if I make a(Bad)racial joke.Let me guess "The swiss are racists "
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Old 02.10.2011, 20:24
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Re: What Would Be The Swiss Response

Godwin's Law strikes again.

Maybe you could consider that there is a sense of "we have so much to be grateful for, our life is pretty good, now this foreigner who has been here five minutes is trying to make us feel like this is wrong"? I'm happy with, pardon me, MY country the way it is. I have lived somewhere else and the only thing I miss is the choice of clothes and cheap eating out. But I don't consider those things as vital to my survival as making a good wage and great healthcare. Both those things were NOT covered by the country I lived in and so there wasn't really much point in the great selection of clothes and restaurants...

No, I would not tolerate someone sh****** all over the place I come from when they come from somewhere else as I feel their unhappiness also stems from a lack of understanding of how things truly are. I don't go to their country and tell them it's got it all wrong, that would be arrogant and rude. I would be a guest in their country and would conduct myself accordingly. As for someone with a Greek accent having a go at a badly run country, weeeeeeell - interesting.

But on the whole - AGWV is a typical reverse-colonialist, if there is such a thing, someone from the former colonies who thinks that now the "old countries" should learn a thing or two about how things are done. I've been to Bermuda and Canada but never the US, as I suspect I would not be impressed by how things are there. Which is fine for the US and fine for me, we don't need each other...
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Old 02.10.2011, 20:39
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Re: What Would Be The Swiss Response

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That what I thought ,butt my post wasn't.What would you say if I make a(Bad)racial joke.Let me guess "The swiss are racists "
Get the chip off your shoulder. That's not what I said. I don't make broad open ended statements like that. I usually qualify them. If that is the case my girlfriend is also a racist of some sort. Well, she doesn't care for "D'Swabi" much, but..."hate" no...
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