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  #101  
Old 04.10.2011, 23:22
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Re: What Would Be The Swiss Response

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Unless you live in Ticino.
I suspect Mr 'Hofener might already be aware of that...
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  #102  
Old 04.10.2011, 23:41
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Re: What Would Be The Swiss Response

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Guess you're under 45 or so?

Tom
Not necessarily. This sort of thing got said a lot during the Bush Jr years.
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  #103  
Old 04.10.2011, 23:41
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Re: What Would Be The Swiss Response

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I suspect Mr 'Hofener might already be aware of that...
Sure. At the funeral of my Godfather in Geneva everything was in French and once Aunt Clara died, before the actual beginning, during a kind of break and after the church service, on her personal wish was played "the Battle Hymn of the Republic" in endless repetition. And when my mother died, with heavy sympathies for France, beside "Grosser Gott wir loben Dich" (a Protestant version) there were the tunes of the "Marseillaise" played on a church organ

And "nationalist" Italian songs ? Like those here
http://www.nazionale.altervista.org/FRATELLI%20D'ITALIA.htm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4rR4I56hdk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckWLcTrKzaw
http://folk.ntnu.no/makarov/temporar...ionale-it1.mp3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wXiJgCRH4Y
......

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  #104  
Old 05.10.2011, 00:56
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Re: What Would Be The Swiss Response

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Why would anyone want to critize a country he or she has chosen to live in voluntarily? I mean, if one doesn't like the country one lives in and whose citizenship one has acquired, why not moving somewhere else which fits best one's opinion of what a fantastical country must be? Foreigners getting citizenship of the country they have chosen should always be grateful and respect the country they have been so warmly received in. And no, I'm not swiss, but I love this country.
Maybe because...

"Dissent is the highest form of patriotism"---Howard Zinn
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  #105  
Old 05.10.2011, 08:54
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Re: What Would Be The Swiss Response

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Most church songs are not in dialect but in Standard German, and the reverends give their "sermons" in Standard German as well. And it may be on the kindergarten door, but sure not on the door to school.
Sorry, forgot to specify "free churches". The case at our church, is as I specified above.

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I'm not staying.

There is no standard grammar or spelling for Swiss German. My girlfriend is from St. Gallen and works in Luzern and has a hard time understanding some people from the "forest cantons"...depending on where they are from.

There is no such thing as "Swiss German" there are continuous dialects of "Swiss Germans".

It is like learning Jamaican Patois in Jamaica. Where do you do that? Not school. There are thousands of Jamaican reggae songs in that dialect(s)...Shanghainese is not mutually intelligible with Mandarin, but it is "Chinese" and not taught anywhere...

Get the point?

Swiss German is a major barrier to integration, but that is another topic, and all of this is off topic.
Yeah I kind of get your point. I do speak five foreign languages myself, some of which seem to be closer to German than Swiss-German is, so I'm not entirely stupid. And I know where you can learn Swiss-German - Migros klubschule, if you have a minimum of B1 in Hochdeutsch. I'll make my own thread though and stop derailing yours.
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  #106  
Old 06.10.2011, 20:54
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Re: What Would Be The Swiss Response

Without having read *every* post on here, I get the premise of the question- the different responses to constructive criticism and just plain b*tching.

The first points out a problem, identifies why it is a problem, and in many cases offers a suggestion or a partial suggestion to resolve the problem. All that is done in a logical and rational manner.

The second points out a problem, places blame at someone else's feet, and usually has some flaw in its premise. Oftentimes no solution, or an entirely irrational solution is offered. All this is, again, oftentimes characterized by vitriol, negative emotion, name-calling, and logical fallacies.

In the U.S. and Switzerland, both forms of political speech are, and should be protected. In the U.S, many Americans will listen to, and debate with the former. There are also many who quickly resort to the latter.

It can be very hard to have a debate in the U.S, because of this. I personally believe my positions are only strengthened when they are questioned and tested, and sometimes new truths are revealed to me this way.

Saying "That's the way it is- like it or leave," is a cop-out, anywhere in the world.
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  #107  
Old 07.10.2011, 23:57
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Re: What Would Be The Swiss Response

I believe that the right thing is first give the country room to grow on you, rather then throw out criticisms from the beginning. Give it a chance, then after being a good citizen and giving the benefit of the doubt, trying to understand the locals etc, give your suggestions, and voice your opinions, and so on...why not? No country's perfect.

Though, if I knew about something truly wrong, like child labor, sex slavery, exploitation etc etc...I would not care if I lived in the country a day or a lifetime, I'd speak up about it regardless....
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  #108  
Old 08.10.2011, 09:12
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Re: What Would Be The Swiss Response

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Without having read *every* post on here, I get the premise of the question- the different responses to constructive criticism and just plain b*tching.

The first points out a problem, identifies why it is a problem, and in many cases offers a suggestion or a partial suggestion to resolve the problem. All that is done in a logical and rational manner.

The second points out a problem, places blame at someone else's feet, and usually has some flaw in its premise. Oftentimes no solution, or an entirely irrational solution is offered. All this is, again, oftentimes characterized by vitriol, negative emotion, name-calling, and logical fallacies.

In the U.S. and Switzerland, both forms of political speech are, and should be protected. In the U.S, many Americans will listen to, and debate with the former. There are also many who quickly resort to the latter.

It can be very hard to have a debate in the U.S, because of this. I personally believe my positions are only strengthened when they are questioned and tested, and sometimes new truths are revealed to me this way.

Saying "That's the way it is- like it or leave," is a cop-out, anywhere in the world.
I on extensive visits to the USA realized that the gigantic "Sister Republic" has far more in common with Switzerland than I originally expected. Outsiders however have to see that while both nations are open for discussion, some basics should be accepted. And one basic is about language. Even if quite many US-Americans and quite many Swiss people are fiercely nationalist, the general consensus is that BOTH "American-English" and "Swiss German" simply a groups of dialects of the main-language. For example: Can Americans speak Standard English ? Yes they can. Do they like to do so ? No, they do not. In case you see a similarity, it is just coincidence
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  #109  
Old 08.10.2011, 09:45
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Re: What Would Be The Swiss Response

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I believe that the right thing is first give the country room to grow on you, rather then throw out criticisms from the beginning. Give it a chance, then after being a good citizen and giving the benefit of the doubt, trying to understand the locals etc, give your suggestions, and voice your opinions, and so on...why not? No country's perfect.

Though, if I knew about something truly wrong, like child labor, sex slavery, exploitation etc etc...I would not care if I lived in the country a day or a lifetime, I'd speak up about it regardless....
The odd thing is that I find the little things almost rankle people more. When I have complained about the impossibility of finding a cold drink (instead of cool) that seems elicit the biggest eye rolls and groans. When I talk about the legally-mandated requirements for peace and quiet, stores not being open after work, insanely high prices that make me border-hop for shopping, the hookers in Zürich, their monetary policy, the ridiculous cost of doing business, these are generally discussed seriously and openly.

I think, at a certain level, you have to have some credibility that you really are embracing the country as a whole, but once people believe that, they can take some surprisingly major criticism quite well. (Granted, I think it also helps that I am very open about America's flaws, as well.)

Last edited by dmay; 08.10.2011 at 09:46. Reason: wrote "believe" twice
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  #110  
Old 08.10.2011, 10:57
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Re: What Would Be The Swiss Response

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I on extensive visits to the USA realized that the gigantic "Sister Republic" has far more in common with Switzerland than I originally expected. Outsiders however have to see that while both nations are open for discussion, some basics should be accepted. And one basic is about language. Even if quite many US-Americans and quite many Swiss people are fiercely nationalist, the general consensus is that BOTH "American-English" and "Swiss German" simply a groups of dialects of the main-language. For example: Can Americans speak Standard English ? Yes they can. Do they like to do so ? No, they do not. In case you see a similarity, it is just coincidence
I would say the Swiss are more versatile in that respect, because I would wager more Swiss (as a percentage of the total population) would better understand High German than Americans understand Standard English. Too many in the U.S. understand little more than their local dialectic, and while they might understand the words spoken at them, many of these would miss the true meaning of what was being said.
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  #111  
Old 08.10.2011, 12:16
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Re: What Would Be The Swiss Response

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When I talk about the legally-mandated requirements for peace and quiet, stores not being open after work, insanely high prices that make me border-hop for shopping, the hookers in Zürich, their monetary policy, the ridiculous cost of doing business, these are generally discussed seriously and openly.
Can you please tell us a bit more about the monetary policy of the hookers in Zurich?
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  #112  
Old 09.10.2011, 02:17
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Re: What Would Be The Swiss Response

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Can you please tell us a bit more about the monetary policy of the hookers in Zurich?
You have to pay,before service is rendered
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