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Old 14.11.2011, 13:25
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Re: Coop caught selling old meat as new

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Mind is made up. I clearly state that I go to France for the product range and to buy product there that isn't available in Switzerland. Likewise, I don't buy meats etc there because the quality is not the same and that would hurt the Swiss farmers.

I support Switzerland by buying in Switzerland when i can. My gripe is with people that trot over the border every week to buy identical products in Germany that they can by here. I don't do that, therefore I am supporting the Swiss economy.

I don't think my position is all that hard to understand.
You're not supporting "the Swiss economy" by shopping at Coop or Migros. They use the same products and the same methods as the "bad boys" across the border (in fact one of the less reported accusations against Coop was that German chicken products were labelled as "Swiss", thus justifying a higher price - if true, that's fraud, even if said chicken is safe to eat). If you really want to support the Swiss economy, buy dairy and produce from a local farm (often distributed through Landi or Volg stores), bread from a local baker, meat from a butcher who sources locally.

Just to clarify:
  • the main problem with Swiss meat is not the farmers - their costs are high, and they therefore have to sell at a high price, but the price at the farm door is not much different from what organic meat in DE or FR (which should be the benchmark, not the quasi-industrial stuff) costs. The main problem is the margin slapped on by the "big two" distributors.
  • Aldi and Lidl sell Swiss dairy, vegetables and meat for less than Coop and Migros. That's not because they pay Farmers less. Farmers are actually quite happy to sell to Aldi and Lidl, they are usually considered reliable partners. Again, the difference in price comes from the margins (and no, Aldi and Lidl are not paying their staff less than Migros or Coop).
  • what most folks buy in DE or FR (or AT) is those products that are made abroad, with 0% Swiss input, yet miraculously double or triple in price as soon as they cross the Swiss border, when a 20 or 30% uptick would cover the higher cost of doing business in Switzerland. The difference is pocketed by the importer and the retailer.
  • there are very few food items that are "not available" in Switzerland. Most are, at specialised shops. The excuse "oh, I only buy stuff abroad that I can't get here in CH" is peddled by the sort of people who pack their Carrefour or Kaufland booty in Coop or Migros carrier bags to fool their Neighbourhood Watch when they carry it into their flats.
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  #62  
Old 14.11.2011, 13:28
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Re: Coop caught selling old meat as new

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Swiss love sausages! And you can't compare a Swiss sausage and the consumption thereof to the qualities of English/Aussie/NZ sausages which really are full of S___.
someone buying sausages here doesn't mean the price of meat is too high, it means they are having a grill or have a craving for a juicy Olma Bratwurst or Cervelat.

I never shop at Lidl or Aldi because I detest the disorganisation and queues. I do frequently travel to France to buy a bug lot of groceries but not because of the price, rather because I love the products they have (salted butters, Croque Monsieur, etc). I never by fresh meat of milk products there because the quality in Switzerland is too high. I also don't (and won't) go to Germany for better prices because the product range is as limited there as in Switzerland and the petrol/time costs outweigh the price difference anyway. Furthermore, I earn money in Switzerland, I spend in Switzerland. That is the honest way to go about it.
What a utter, steaming pile of old bollocks.
I particularly liked the sausage bit

Are you Swiss per chance?
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Old 14.11.2011, 13:32
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Re: Coop caught selling old meat as new

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(in fact one of the less reported accusations against Coop was that German chicken products were labelled as "Swiss", thus justifying a higher price - if true, that's fraud.
I'm not condoning it but I read that as long as the meat is prepared, processed and packaged in Switzerland, it can be labelled as "Swiss". Bit shady but apparently legal...
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Old 14.11.2011, 13:33
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Re: Coop caught selling old meat as new

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[*]there are very few food items that are "not available" in Switzerland. Most are, at specialised shops. The excuse "oh, I only buy stuff abroad that I can't get here in CH" is peddled by the sort of people who pack their Carrefour or Kaufland booty in Coop or Migros carrier bags to fool their Neighbourhood Watch when they carry it into their flats.[/LIST]

I very proudly buy canvas bags from Hyper-U or Eleclerc and walk happily from car-park to house. I have nothing to hide.
The products I am often buying are supermerkets own brand and are not available in Switzerland, though a few Leader price products can be found at Pam (previously Pick-Pay).

We do often buy our farm produce direct from the farm. If anyone wants a great source of Lamb from the Tessin of Beef from Graubunden, let me know. They deliver it to your door butchered, packed and frozen. Great value for a side of cattle, real Swiss meat.

If this is true about the big two relabelling foreign meats as Swiss then I hope it is cracked down on. I would boycott them, but I can't get beyond the great Coop toilet paper and kitchen towels.
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Old 14.11.2011, 13:34
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Re: Coop caught selling old meat as new

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I'm not condoning it but I read that as long as the meat is prepared, processed and packaged in Switzerland, it can be labelled as "Swiss". Bit shady but apparently legal...
Would love to see that. Can you find the link?
My understanding of the laws protecting the Swiss brand is that a product must be also of at least 50% Swiss origin.
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Old 14.11.2011, 13:36
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Re: Coop caught selling old meat as new

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What a utter, steaming pile of old bollocks.
I particularly liked the sausage bit

Are you Swiss per chance?
Which part is bollocks?

I am Swiss now but I used to be a New Zealander.

The sausages in Switzerland are extremely high in meat content and good quality.
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Old 14.11.2011, 13:36
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Re: Coop caught selling old meat as new

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Would love to see that. Can you find the link?
My understanding of the laws protecting the Swiss brand is that a product must be also of at least 50% Swiss origin.
Can't remember but it was probably in the KTipp magazine around the time everyone was in a tuck about bird 'flu and the origins of their chicken. All sorts of eyebrow-raising stuff in there...
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Old 14.11.2011, 13:45
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Re: Coop caught selling old meat as new

There were several about chickens from Poland, China and Brazil being passed off as Swiss, like in here:

http://www.vgt.ch/vn/9702/migros.htm

http://www.gesundheitstipp.ch/tests/...und_-Schnitzel

http://www.ron-orp.ch/zuerich/forum/...um-thema.98223
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Old 14.11.2011, 13:48
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Re: Coop caught selling old meat as new

Whoops, i just looked back over a receipt from France from a couple of months ago and have a confession to make.

It seems I started to buy some items that were also available in Switzerland, no doubt because of the price. This would include the likes of 15 can multi-packs of Coke (only 6's in Switzerland).

So I apologise for my holier-than-thou stance from earlier.

I always like a good discussion that gets me thinking and absolutely love it when someone can change my opinion through a solid argument, so thanks.
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Old 14.11.2011, 13:52
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Re: Coop caught selling old meat as new

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There were several about chickens from Poland, China and Brazil being passed off as Swiss, like in here:

http://www.vgt.ch/vn/9702/migros.htm

http://www.gesundheitstipp.ch/tests/...und_-Schnitzel

http://www.ron-orp.ch/zuerich/forum/...um-thema.98223
Familiar with the winner of the Gesundheitstip article. Those Findus nuggets are very good. Current carton states that the meat is from Brazil, The US, or Poland. Have eaten many and never had a problem. It is hard to find frozen chicken products with Swiss meat.
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Old 14.11.2011, 14:07
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Re: Coop caught selling old meat as new

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Which part is bollocks?

I am Swiss now but I used to be a New Zealander.

The sausages in Switzerland are extremely high in meat content and good quality.
Ja ja, read "Schweizer Qualitat" and then switch off the brain.

There are countries in Europe where a "sausage" has to be meat (which may include offal and blood, but also connective tissue), salt, spices and water only. Not the UK obviously - two words: rusk and gristle . But neither Switzerland, where milk may be added and where there are no limits on how much water there can be in a sausage. K-tipp found in a test of Bratwursts that Globus' Kalbsbratwurst contained 19.8% added water, Coop Bratwurst was 32.8% fat, and most of the Swiss samples had between 67% and 80% sheer meat (without connective tissue). For the supposedly inferior German sausages, the maximum permitted amount of added water is 8%, and the products were found to contain bewteen 85 and 90% sheer meat.

Last edited by tom tulpe; 14.11.2011 at 14:10. Reason: spelling
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Old 14.11.2011, 14:11
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Re: Coop caught selling old meat as new

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Ja ja, read "Schweizer Qualitat" and then switch off the brain.

There are countries in Europe where a "sausage" has to be meat (which may include offal and blood, but also connective tissue), salt, spices and water only. Not the UK obviously - tow words: rusk and gristle . But neither Switzerland, where milk may be added and where there are no limits on how much water there can be in a sausage. K-tipp found in a test of Bratwursts that Globus' Kalbsbratwurst contained 19.8% added water, Coop Bratwurst was 32.8% fat, and most of the Swiss samples had between 67% and 80% sheer meat (without connective tissue). For the supposedly inferior German sausages, the maximum permitted amount of added water is 8%, and the products were found to contain bewteen 85 and 90% sheer meat.
Well that's the thing....Swiss retailers are crap at negotiating prices and they have to tinker with the quality as their order quantity is too small to generate any interest to potential suppliers.
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Old 14.11.2011, 14:15
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Re: Coop caught selling old meat as new

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Well that's the thing....Swiss retailers are crap at negotiating prices and they have to tinker with the quality as their order quantity is too small to generate any interest to potential suppliers.
As long as consumers believe that "Swiss is best and should cost more" no matter what, there is no incentive at all to change anything.
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Old 14.11.2011, 14:29
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Re: Coop caught selling old meat as new

I'm a former chef. I know how to store meat and when meat is inedible. A fresh chicken should not be green and should not have a certain stink, which my chicken did.
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Old 14.11.2011, 14:29
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Re: Coop caught selling old meat as new

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Would love to see that. Can you find the link?
Sure, just as soon as you start backing up every claim that you've been making with some hard facts. Fair is fair after all.
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Old 14.11.2011, 14:44
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Re: Coop caught selling old meat as new

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Which part is bollocks?
- English/Aussie/NZ sausages really are full of S___.

- I never by (buy) fresh meat of milk products [outside Switzerland] because the quality in Switzerland is too high

- I also don't go to Germany because the product range is as limited there as in Switzerland
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Old 14.11.2011, 14:59
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Re: Coop caught selling old meat as new

With regards to British sausages (to the previous poster who kindly mentioned German sausages, I didn't refer to them. I agree, their meat content is high), but back to the British bangers (Aussie snags and NZ bangers):

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There are various laws concerning the meat content of sausages in the UK. The minimum meat content to be labelled Pork Sausages is 42% (30% for other types of meat sausages), although to be classed as meat, the Pork can contain 30% fat and 25% connective tissue. Often the cheapest supermarket pork sausages do not have the necessary meat content to be described as Pork Sausages and are simply labelled 'Sausages'. These typically contain MRM which under EU law can no longer be described as meat.
From Wikipedia Sausage page. Not that I endorse them as an authority, but the claims can be easily confirmed elsewhere.

Second point to answer:
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I never by (buy) fresh meat of milk products [outside Switzerland] because the quality in Switzerland is too high
This is (as is everything anyone writes here) my opinion. I cannot justify buying meat from outside Switzerland when there is limitations on what you can bring in, the quality is not better than I can get here, and I have shops so close to home.

Third point: product range. It is my experience (and again opinion) that if I visit Germany for products I find the same food brands and styles of food as in Switzerland. Therefore i prefer France. Of course, those living in Vaud, Fribourg, Geneva etc probably have the same problem shopping in France and find different styles of product in Germany.

I fail to understand why my opinion gets up so many folk here. Do you really all find German food so much better that you can't stand Swiss products or supermarkets?
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Old 14.11.2011, 15:08
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I fail to understand why my opinion gets up so many folk here. Do you really all find German food so much better that you can't stand Swiss products or supermarkets?
From my own point of view it's just simply a money saver. A few weeks ago I bought a joint of beef from a butcher in Germany that cost a third of the price I would have paid here. The quality is no better and no worse than here. (LiB - the butcher was also not wearing gloves as far as I remember...).

We're not regular visitors to Germany but it DOES stick in the throat when you see Germans paying unfathomably lower prices for most stuff (they certainly don't live on wages that are a third of their Swiss counterparts). I like shopping here in Switzerland and can't justify chasing up to Germany for every piddly thing but I will definitely do a run up there before Christmas simply because I feel I'm going to be shamelessly ripped off for the same items here in Zurich.
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Old 14.11.2011, 15:13
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Re: Coop caught selling old meat as new

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I never shop at Lidl or Aldi because I detest the disorganisation and queues. I do frequently travel to France to buy a bug lot of groceries but not because of the price, rather because I love the products they have (salted butters, Croque Monsieur, etc). I never by fresh meat of milk products there because the quality in Switzerland is too high. I also don't (and won't) go to Germany for better prices because the product range is as limited there as in Switzerland and the petrol/time costs outweigh the price difference anyway. Furthermore, I earn money in Switzerland, I spend in Switzerland. That is the honest way to go about it.
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Make your mind up.
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Mind is made up. I clearly state that I go to France for the product range and to buy product there that isn't available in Switzerland. Likewise, I don't buy meats etc there because the quality is not the same and that would hurt the Swiss farmers.

I support Switzerland by buying in Switzerland when i can. My gripe is with people that trot over the border every week to buy identical products in Germany that they can by here. I don't do that, therefore I am supporting the Swiss economy.

I don't think my position is all that hard to understand.
Yes, you've made it quite clear that you believe that what you do is honest, and so implying that what other people do is dishonest.
(Otherwise why bother with such a sentence?).

Personally, I couldn't take anyone seriously who takes such a pompous stance and then says they go all the way to France to buy a Croque Monsieur, which is , let's face it, just a cheese sandwich.
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Old 14.11.2011, 15:27
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Re: Coop caught selling old meat as new

I think my meaning and tone of voice has been misunderstood throughout this thread. A lot of you seem to have missed my earlier confession and correction where I thanked you for helping me to see the light.

We probably have to agree to disagree. My intention is not to offend anyone it is to defend the country I love.
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