Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Swiss politics/news  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #81  
Old 18.10.2011, 12:50
Uncle Max's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Züri
Posts: 7,553
Groaned at 164 Times in 105 Posts
Thanked 8,424 Times in 3,486 Posts
Uncle Max has a reputation beyond reputeUncle Max has a reputation beyond reputeUncle Max has a reputation beyond reputeUncle Max has a reputation beyond reputeUncle Max has a reputation beyond reputeUncle Max has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
View Post
So why not camp outside Parliment - in London, Washington and Bern?
Perhaps because the media houses are based in Zurich, as are most of the Banking HQs, Zurich having the country's largest population..? Not sure why Swiss protesters would go to London or Washington. As I've seen reported, people in those countries are doing it for themselves.

Quote:
View Post
Uncle, I am with you on the communication issue, completely. Not only that, it would be nice to see politicians be more propositive about solutions on how to handle crises. Usually though, the cure is harsher than the disease, and therefore very unpopular/brings votes down, so politicians abstain.

On the other side of the coin I always wonder, when I hear people complain/protest on the street, how many of them would be willing/capable to stand up and, given the chance, propose concrete solutions. Granted the majority of politicians I see worldwide are big "tools", I would like to see what each and every protester would do if he/she were in their shoes, how they would handle the situation.

XYZ sucks, ok. What would YOU do then? I find it's a very easy route to complain without putting forth solutions. Much harder to take the responsibility of making a choice.
A lot of politicians have the ego of a three year old and the skin of a rhino and their careers all end in failure; at least the 'average Joe' protesters are clearly enthusiastically engaged. Politicians are doing their job for the benefit of the country, in principle, but we all know how that goes.

It is very easy to dismiss "the protesters" but they are an ecclectic bunch and not necessarily clueless as to what's happening. That Noam Chomsky or Batman or Whoever is not actually standing in the cold alongside them doesn't mean the people are idiots.

Although, given any group of Earthlings there'll be idiots amongst the well meaning. Anyway, the protesters succeed everytime they are mentioned in the press. Whether there are people listening is a different matter, but they do what they can. I'm baffled as to what I as an individual can do about the damn mess we're in other than hoard the gold and hope for the best.

You?
__________________
Wave ¦ Synthpop ¦ 80's ¦ Alternative ¦ Party ¦ Sat 24.03 Provitreff Zurich

Last edited by Uncle Max; 18.10.2011 at 12:59. Reason: merged successive posts
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Uncle Max for this useful post:
  #82  
Old 18.10.2011, 13:05
dodgyken's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Democratic Republic Kenistan
Posts: 10,653
Groaned at 279 Times in 230 Posts
Thanked 19,403 Times in 7,402 Posts
dodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Anti Banking demo

Quote:
View Post
Perhaps because the media houses are based in Zurich, as are most of the Banking HQs, Zurich having the country's largest population..? Not sure why Swiss protesters would go to London or Washington. As I've seen reported, people in those countries are doing it for themselves.
The protests are global - so I used other countries as examples.

You highlighted that the protesters are trying to make a point to POLITICIANS - so surely you'd protest where they work?

I agree that "Occupy Paradeplatz" might get them a bit more media coverage - but having a declaration of what they want and by when they want it would have demonstrated there is logical thought behind the protest.

There are issues in the financial industry that need addressing - specifically that seldom do the risk profiles of all those involved in a transaction match up. For example:

A salesman is selling a fund to a client. The salesman will receive a commission from the fund owner. The fund-owner will pay annual bonuses to the person who runs the fun (trader).

The salesman's performance is paid out at point of sale
The trader is rewarded year on year for success - but not penalised (except for maybe job loss) for failure. And besides after a few years will move on anyway.

The purchaser meanwhile has bought the fund expecting returns (or at least no capital depreciation) over a 10-15-20 year period.

Futhermore, the finance industry (whatever that encompasses) is arguably one of the most regulated in the world. There appears to be a lack of clarity from the protesters on what is expected of the industry in order to satisfy their demands.

Capitalism and Globalisation are nice catch words - it grabs attention - it makes headlines - but it MEANS nothing. We are all free to choose what we buy and how we buy it. Modern demands for convieniance and value for money means that we often have to sacrifice principles for the sake of the wallet. How many people take medicines from multinationals? Have accounts with "big evil" banks? Have insurance? Drink, eat and purchase products from these huge companies?

You can't have it all ways. You can't have your cake and eat it. If people want to rewind the clock - and have locally produced clothes then they are going to have to expect to pay locally produced prices.

Some things have to change - multi-nationals have to take more responsibility for the conditions of all those who work for them - including sub-contracted factories in developing markets. They have to be made accountable for the damage those factories cause to the environment - not based solely on local regulations - but the regulations of the country in which the country is taxed.

There are issues - there are solutions - but a few beardies hanging around Paradeplatz/Littenplatz drinking cheap lager and waving a few banners is not the way to go about achieving it.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank dodgyken for this useful post:
  #83  
Old 18.10.2011, 13:39
Wollishofener's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Glattbrugg
Posts: 18,978
Groaned at 332 Times in 257 Posts
Thanked 11,715 Times in 6,858 Posts
Wollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Anti Banking demo

Quote:
View Post
So why not camp outside Parliment - in London, Washington and Bern?
In the USA, people will rather "camp" in New York and in Switzerland rather in Zürich. And not in the political capitals. but in the places where the media is.

*****************************************

Quote:
View Post
The protests are global - so I used other countries as examples.

You highlighted that the protesters are trying to make a point to POLITICIANS - so surely you'd protest where they work?

I agree that "Occupy Paradeplatz" might get them a bit more media coverage - but having a declaration of what they want and by when they want it would have demonstrated there is logical thought behind the protest.

There are issues in the financial industry that need addressing - specifically that seldom do the risk profiles of all those involved in a transaction match up. For example:

A salesman is selling a fund to a client. The salesman will receive a commission from the fund owner. The fund-owner will pay annual bonuses to the person who runs the fun (trader).

The salesman's performance is paid out at point of sale
The trader is rewarded year on year for success - but not penalised (except for maybe job loss) for failure. And besides after a few years will move on anyway.

The purchaser meanwhile has bought the fund expecting returns (or at least no capital depreciation) over a 10-15-20 year period.

Futhermore, the finance industry (whatever that encompasses) is arguably one of the most regulated in the world. There appears to be a lack of clarity from the protesters on what is expected of the industry in order to satisfy their demands.

Capitalism and Globalisation are nice catch words - it grabs attention - it makes headlines - but it MEANS nothing. We are all free to choose what we buy and how we buy it. Modern demands for convieniance and value for money means that we often have to sacrifice principles for the sake of the wallet. How many people take medicines from multinationals? Have accounts with "big evil" banks? Have insurance? Drink, eat and purchase products from these huge companies?

You can't have it all ways. You can't have your cake and eat it. If people want to rewind the clock - and have locally produced clothes then they are going to have to expect to pay locally produced prices.

Some things have to change - multi-nationals have to take more responsibility for the conditions of all those who work for them - including sub-contracted factories in developing markets. They have to be made accountable for the damage those factories cause to the environment - not based solely on local regulations - but the regulations of the country in which the country is taxed.

There are issues - there are solutions - but a few beardies hanging around Paradeplatz/Littenplatz drinking cheap lager and waving a few banners is not the way to go about achieving it.
Where they work ? Members of the Federal Parliaments (both houses) are not professionals but militia-politicians, which means that there are more of them living in the Zurich area than in the Bern area. The protest not least was launched to make it clear to the banks that a lot of people (not just those who protested) are opposed to their ways, their methods and their arrogance. And so, the equivalent to the Wall Street was chosen.

The Lindenhof (neither Litten nor Platz) is the oldest place in Zürich as it is the top of the original Roman fortress and so the founding place of Zürich. And so is very symbolic.

What you write about the multinationals etc may be of interest, but clearly is not the issue right at the moment. And most of the hardcore of the protesters have no beards.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Wollishofener for this useful post:
  #84  
Old 18.10.2011, 14:11
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: USA, former Zurich
Posts: 2,041
Groaned at 14 Times in 14 Posts
Thanked 4,811 Times in 1,660 Posts
BokerTov has a reputation beyond reputeBokerTov has a reputation beyond reputeBokerTov has a reputation beyond reputeBokerTov has a reputation beyond reputeBokerTov has a reputation beyond reputeBokerTov has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Anti Banking demo

Quote:
View Post
I'm baffled as to what I as an individual can do about the damn mess we're in other than hoard the gold and hope for the best.

You?
Me? I try to give a meaning to my daily work by ensuring that corps are as clean as as transparent/compliant as possible with their records and practices. Doesn't always work as we'd like to, but we try.

I avoid getting into unnecessary debt by aggressively budgeting and saving and going without if I can't afford it, so that hopefully one day when (not if, when) the storm comes - in the form of an illness, loss of job, or simply old age - I have a small roof over my head. Anything can happen, but if it does, the fall can be a bit less rough with a little cushion under my ehm, bottom.

I don't believe blindly what people who are in charge of investing my money tell me. It is my money after all, and it is my own responsibility to be a good steward of it. At the same time, I try to be helpful to others around me, as much as I can.

In the meantime, I eat cheese and drink wine as well. Other than that, I am as baffled as you and, like you, hope for the best.

P.S. I guess I am a bit too negatively biased against protesters, maybe a bit much. You are right, I should not class all of them into the same "protesters" bucket. To my partial defense, my bias comes mainly from personal stories. I'll share one for all, although I have many variations of the same concept: an old acquaintance/classmate of mine from the days of my master's degree in California originally comes from a very wealthy family, and sort of always looked down on people like me having multiple jobs and on a scholarship, shopping the deals, not being able to afford the latest gadgets, etc. She got into all sorts of risky financial investments that she could not afford, including racking up credit card debt and a variable-interest mortgage on a stellar house that she could not afford. No savings whatsoever, living from paycheck to paycheck, and not because her job was a low-paying one. If you talk to her, she is one of the people who now criticizes the government, the economy, the fact that she managed to get fired from her job and can't find a new one, the fact that her investments didn't turn out to be what she was expecting (finance 101: higher return=higher risk), etc. Again, all individual stories are different, and she is probably not a representative example (is she?) but really???? A common friend told me that she was going to join the protests in new York. I wonder if she'll wear her designer clothes while marching down the street
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank BokerTov for this useful post:
  #85  
Old 18.10.2011, 15:19
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 12,361
Groaned at 338 Times in 274 Posts
Thanked 26,263 Times in 11,000 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Anti Banking demo

Quote:
View Post
P.S. I guess I am a bit too negatively biased against protesters, maybe a bit much. You are right, I should not class all of them into the same "protesters" bucket. To my partial defense, my bias comes mainly from personal stories. I'll share one for all, although I have many variations of the same concept: an old acquaintance/classmate of mine from the days of my master's degree in California originally comes from a very wealthy family, and sort of always looked down on people like me having multiple jobs and on a scholarship, shopping the deals, not being able to afford the latest gadgets, etc. She got into all sorts of risky financial investments that she could not afford, including racking up credit card debt and a variable-interest mortgage on a stellar house that she could not afford. No savings whatsoever, living from paycheck to paycheck, and not because her job was a low-paying one. If you talk to her, she is one of the people who now criticizes the government, the economy, the fact that she managed to get fired from her job and can't find a new one, the fact that her investments didn't turn out to be what she was expecting (finance 101: higher return=higher risk), etc. Again, all individual stories are different, and she is probably not a representative example (is she?) but really???? A common friend told me that she was going to join the protests in new York. I wonder if she'll wear her designer clothes while marching down the street
Does it matter? Just because somebody wears designer clothes, do they not have the right to criticise the system? Just because somebody buys Chinese stuff, why should they be pro globalisation. Some people don't have choices (it's difficult to get clothes that are not Asian if you're shopping on a small budget). Some people just make mistakes. Okay, if they go into debt that's their choice. But when they do awaken and understand they did something wrong, their debt doesn't go away. I don't quite follow the logic that says certain people shouldn't be protesting because they are complicit to what's happening in some way or another. The whole world is a network. We can't really opt out. But does that mean we can't be critical of what's happening?

Would you have told Malcolm X that he was a hypocrite for speaking out against Jim Crow laws yet obeying them?
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank amogles for this useful post:
  #86  
Old 18.10.2011, 15:55
cheesey's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Zurich
Posts: 1,144
Groaned at 25 Times in 22 Posts
Thanked 1,784 Times in 574 Posts
cheesey has a reputation beyond reputecheesey has a reputation beyond reputecheesey has a reputation beyond reputecheesey has a reputation beyond reputecheesey has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Anti Banking demo

You're right, people who wear designer clothes don't have a choice. Oh, wait, let me think this through some more

malcom x's situation is a poor analogy I think.
Reply With Quote
  #87  
Old 18.10.2011, 16:04
Uncle Max's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Züri
Posts: 7,553
Groaned at 164 Times in 105 Posts
Thanked 8,424 Times in 3,486 Posts
Uncle Max has a reputation beyond reputeUncle Max has a reputation beyond reputeUncle Max has a reputation beyond reputeUncle Max has a reputation beyond reputeUncle Max has a reputation beyond reputeUncle Max has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
View Post
... aggressively budgeting and saving ...
Not wishing this to be personal - it's not! - but it's easy to save if you have something to save. Most of the world aggressively budgets through necessity, not design.

Social Justice isn't wretched or worthless. The 1% have always had control and are likely to always have control, but the 99% are feeling that things are getting out of kilter. The proportionate difference between lowest and highest salaries are obscene to many.

Maybe they're just whining and should harden up? Recession's nothing new...

Ps, it's usually the middle class who see the upper class moving away from them and want do something about it. The poor below stay there until it's Riot O'Clock, then slink back again. I think someone mentioned this somewhere but there are so many discussions on the net about it, apologies if I'm repeating...
__________________
Wave ¦ Synthpop ¦ 80's ¦ Alternative ¦ Party ¦ Sat 24.03 Provitreff Zurich
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Uncle Max for this useful post:
  #88  
Old 18.10.2011, 16:19
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 12,361
Groaned at 338 Times in 274 Posts
Thanked 26,263 Times in 11,000 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Anti Banking demo

People who eat cake have no right to complain about the price of bread.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank amogles for this useful post:
  #89  
Old 18.10.2011, 16:26
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: USA, former Zurich
Posts: 2,041
Groaned at 14 Times in 14 Posts
Thanked 4,811 Times in 1,660 Posts
BokerTov has a reputation beyond reputeBokerTov has a reputation beyond reputeBokerTov has a reputation beyond reputeBokerTov has a reputation beyond reputeBokerTov has a reputation beyond reputeBokerTov has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Anti Banking demo

Quote:
View Post
Does it matter? Just because somebody wears designer clothes, do they not have the right to criticise the system? Just because somebody buys Chinese stuff, why should they be pro globalisation. Some people don't have choices (it's difficult to get clothes that are not Asian if you're shopping on a small budget). Some people just make mistakes. Okay, if they go into debt that's their choice. But when they do awaken and understand they did something wrong, their debt doesn't go away. I don't quite follow the logic that says certain people shouldn't be protesting because they are complicit to what's happening in some way or another. The whole world is a network. We can't really opt out. But does that mean we can't be critical of what's happening?

Would you have told Malcolm X that he was a hypocrite for speaking out against Jim Crow laws yet obeying them?

Fair point Amogles. But let me clarify a couple of points:
  1. Everyone has the right to criticize whatever they want, wearing whatever they want (designer or not) - true
  2. All of us make mistakes - true
However, to me, making personal choices implies taking responsibilities for them. I will make an extreme example: if I decide to take on several thousand dollars of debt to buy whatever non primary-necessity item I want (e.g. designer clothes) and then I realize I cannot afford to pay it back, well, the debt does not go away as you say, but I shouldn't really be going around blaming everyone else for my mistakes either!

I don't quite follow the logic that says certain people should feel entitled to put the blame on someone else (the government, the bankers, the system) for their own mistakes derived from poor financial planning and reckless spending. I have sympathy for many people - like people who work all their life, save for retirement, and then see their company-sponsored retirement funds wiped out because the company went bankrupt, or a million other examples - but for the people like the example of my acquaintance above, I have absolutely none.

Regarding being a network, yes, we are a network and cannot really opt out, for the good or the bad. Imagine how discomforting it is to walk into a US bank and hear that you are only offered a mortgage to purchase your first home with a ridiculously high interest rate DESPITE a spotless credit history and a solid down-payment because some a$$$ on the other side of the country (or many of them) got into mortgages for houses they couldn't afford and defaulted, and therefore now the bank raised lending costs for everyone.

We can and should be critical of what's happening, all the time. Just, sometimes, we should also be fair and honest with regards to where we should put the blame.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank BokerTov for this useful post:
  #90  
Old 18.10.2011, 16:44
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: USA, former Zurich
Posts: 2,041
Groaned at 14 Times in 14 Posts
Thanked 4,811 Times in 1,660 Posts
BokerTov has a reputation beyond reputeBokerTov has a reputation beyond reputeBokerTov has a reputation beyond reputeBokerTov has a reputation beyond reputeBokerTov has a reputation beyond reputeBokerTov has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Anti Banking demo

Quote:
View Post
Not wishing this to be personal - it's not! - but it's easy to save if you have something to save. Most of the world aggressively budgets through necessity, not design.
No, I understand it's not meant to be personal, and I am actually really enjoying this discussion (slow day here)

On a personal level, I know about necessity, I have been there. Don't be fooled by what you see when you reach the top of the hill - the walk to get there is long, steep, and painful. Not to repeat myself or be arrogant, but I know the place where you are earning 10, and after paying bills, rent, tuition, food, healthcare, etc., you are left with 0.5 if at all, which you can alternatively save, or use for cheap clothes, or maybe for a cheap outing with friends. It is very, very tempting when all your buddies go out and buy the latest gadget to go and spend 100 on credit to buy all those things and more.

Living below one's means is a lifestyle choice, or a life necessity. For me, only saving 0.5 and not getting into debt was a choice out of necessity, it has become a lifestyle, and I stand by this even now that I have a bit more "breathing room", so to speak.

I am no better and no worse than anyone else, maybe I was lucky to grow up in a family where "we can't afford it, we won't buy it" was a must, and also where we were taught to take responsibility for our actions and not blame (fill in the blank, external factor).
Reply With Quote
  #91  
Old 18.10.2011, 16:55
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 12,361
Groaned at 338 Times in 274 Posts
Thanked 26,263 Times in 11,000 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Anti Banking demo

Federica: As you say, we are all part of the network and so we go along with it, whether we approve or not. Let's us look at mortgages for example. Mortgages make real estate ownership achievable for many people who would not otherwise achieve it. And it also makes it achievable much earlier in life than would otherwise be the case. So that's the good thing about mortgages. The bad thing is that because people can, they do. That means mortgages have driven up real estate prices to orders of magnitude above what they would otherwise have been. And this means that the old fashioned thing of being tough and saving up and then buying has just become impossible for most people.

So that means I can dislike mortgages but still have one. Of course it's inconsistent, but many people don't really have choices. In many countries renting is not an attractive alternative so most people buy out of necessity rather than because that's what they really want. Likeiwse with a car for example. Not all countries have public transport that's on par with Switzerland so if you don't have a car it's difficult to find work, so you have to borrow money before you can make money, and if you lose the job you still have the debt. So the net effect is that everybody has a debt to pay for a car but aggregating that, because everybody has cars, the authorities can get away with providing a minimal dysfunctional public transit system (or none at all) so effectively making the car-free choice impossible. So again we see that the banks don't just serve the system but they change the system. I'm not saying its a conspiracy mind you. That wasn't their intention but it was still the effect. People don't get more choice, they just get a different choice.

Moving on to what's happening today. We can't really talk about a free market any more. Through the proxy of massive lobbying efforts, the banks are effectively telling the government what to do. First they threw off their own shackles and made the government remove regulation, regulation that was supposed to protect the customer. And with the fox let out among the chickens it has been greed greed greed.

Under such conditions you can't call people hypocrites for having bank accounts, because its virtually impossible to do anything these days without a bank. But having a bank account cannot be construed as support for or approval of banks.

I do agree with you on responsibility. I grew up in a family where there wasn't much money to spare and I learnt early on that I couldn't have things just because my friends had them and I wore jumble sale clothes while my friends wore designer labels and I was mocked and bullied about that. But I learnt to say no and learnt to think ahead and budget. I also lived largely aloof of advertising pressure as we didn't have a TV, so in a way that helped. Rather than hanging around in shops I went to libraries and musea where I actually learnt something without it costing me anything.

But not everybody has that self control. A lot of people don't have the intelligence. They are fooled by advertising and by artificial desires. Maybe they shouldn't be venting their anger at the banks but at the advertising agencies and the designer shops and MTV. So maybe the protests are misguided, but they are legitimate nevertheless.

Last edited by amogles; 18.10.2011 at 17:21.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank amogles for this useful post:
  #92  
Old 18.10.2011, 18:17
Wollishofener's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Glattbrugg
Posts: 18,978
Groaned at 332 Times in 257 Posts
Thanked 11,715 Times in 6,858 Posts
Wollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Anti Banking demo

A) Globalisation is very positive, and it in the end helps "Third World" nations forward and improves the lifes of people all over the globe
B) Nobody cared as long as the banks made profits. People got alarmed when people had to realize that they when making profits cashed in but when making losses made the people (via National Bank, etc) pay
C) how the UBS was bailed out with 10 times as much money as would have been needed to save Swissair shows what clout the bankers community has

Interesting is to see that right now, the trades unions have started to pressurize Bundesrat and SNB into raising the €>CHF rate to a new minimum of 1.40 . I expect a compromise of 1.35
Reply With Quote
  #93  
Old 18.10.2011, 18:19
Uncle Max's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Züri
Posts: 7,553
Groaned at 164 Times in 105 Posts
Thanked 8,424 Times in 3,486 Posts
Uncle Max has a reputation beyond reputeUncle Max has a reputation beyond reputeUncle Max has a reputation beyond reputeUncle Max has a reputation beyond reputeUncle Max has a reputation beyond reputeUncle Max has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Anti Banking demo

The system is whack. That's the problem. Politicians need to Harden Up and become Statesmen (women) and communicate with the electorate, whatever the professional cost. Ha!

Laughing at 'beardies' or chicks in Gucci is obfuscation.

That 0.5 left from 10 mentioned earlier is great but wait until Life introduces something to the mix, such as redundency, illness, divorce. Every single one of us are vulnerable. Those with 5.5 don't feel the pain and can pick themselves up. Many, many never get that choice. To blame them for their choices is blinkered and the whole point of the protests. "If you'd saved up you wouldn't be in this predicament" is unfair to the majority seeking a fairer society. (Although Margaret Thatcher encouraged the generation who are now in charge with the statement "There's no such thing as Society"; she later regretted the comment, but it summed up the mood...)
__________________
Wave ¦ Synthpop ¦ 80's ¦ Alternative ¦ Party ¦ Sat 24.03 Provitreff Zurich
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Uncle Max for this useful post:
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Swiss protestors to hold anti-Wall Street demo The Local Swiss politics/news 4 10.10.2011 21:57
Demo @ Paradeplatz i-b-deborah Swiss politics/news 91 30.10.2008 14:24
Managed anti-spam and anti-virus service for individual domain-owners spamchek Commercial 0 13.05.2005 11:22


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 05:43.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0