Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Swiss politics/news  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #41  
Old 19.10.2011, 16:31
simon_ch's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 2,390
Groaned at 128 Times in 76 Posts
Thanked 3,488 Times in 1,377 Posts
simon_ch has a reputation beyond reputesimon_ch has a reputation beyond reputesimon_ch has a reputation beyond reputesimon_ch has a reputation beyond reputesimon_ch has a reputation beyond reputesimon_ch has a reputation beyond repute
Re: semi light Xenophobia

I've mentioned it elsewhere, but Farid is essentially right: it's a clash of different visions for Switzerland.

One, I shall call it the liberal, economist view (FDP) is that economic growth requires that Switzerland allows, facilitates and welcomes immigration as much as the companies require. The controlling mechanism is at the hand of companies (work permits), not the state. Population and economic growth alone warrant a future for Switzerland and saves its social system. Switzerland should cope with this population growth by liberalizing the housing market, expanding housing zones, allowing for more construction density and expanding infrastructure. The FDP usually refrains from calls for cultural integration of expats.

The other, slightly less liberal, more conservative view (SVP, BDP, CVP) agrees that companies should have access to foreign highly qualified labour, but want to avoid too much competition with the local workforce in order to reduce unemployment, prevent pressure on wages as well as rent.
They try to control immigration by limiting less qualified foreigners and insist on the safeguarding of Swiss cultural values as well as cultural integration. Especially from the SVP is the viewpoint that land ressources are not infinite and that immigration must be controlled for this reason.

The left's position is slightly more ambivalent; one the one hand it traditionally welcomed immigration and cultural diversity, but on the other hand also level insist on more social housing and regulations which effectively result in less construction.
This viewpoint argues that economic growth cannot be the only goal of a society, that quality of life for everyone should be in the center of attention. A socio-demographic mix of tenants should be ensured through social housing and other iniatives.

Could the increased demand have been predicted? Yes, but it won't be easy to reconcile the different expectations and positions.
But the upward pressure on rents in the cities of Zürich and Geneva is mostly because of regulation that prevented the construction of more appartments. Nevertheless, income grew faster than rents in the timeframe of 1970 to 2010. If you allow for higher population density in cities I don't see much of a problem in the mid-term.

Last edited by simon_ch; 19.10.2011 at 18:13.
Reply With Quote
The following 5 users would like to thank simon_ch for this useful post:
  #42  
Old 19.10.2011, 16:37
Swissoconnors's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Nidwalden
Posts: 185
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 147 Times in 72 Posts
Swissoconnors has an excellent reputationSwissoconnors has an excellent reputationSwissoconnors has an excellent reputationSwissoconnors has an excellent reputation
Re: semi light Xenophobia

Quote:
View Post

She had to know that she was making a million mistakes and still plowed on bravely. Kudos. Then the reporter asked, "do you know what the people in the village call the women in this area? The Desperate Housewives!"
I guess her French class hadn't yet covered the names people might call reporters like that. Shame. (Or maybe it had and that bit just got cut out?)

Rent has become exorbitant in our tiny, backwood, mostly-farming area too, and not due to a housing shortage. There have been loads of new builds since we moved in 7 years ago. DH and I keep looking to find a slightly larger place to rent, but even places the same size as ours are unaffordably expensive now. And it ain't the expats that are causing it here. Everyone wants to live in the countryside and commute into town (Luzern for us).
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 19.10.2011, 16:48
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: semi light Xenophobia

Quote:
View Post
I always assumed it was the SWISS who owned the properties and decided, and hence put up, the rents. Silly me.
Many foreign owners in Ch. but you are right, in a way, many who are putting up prices extortionately are Swiss, but not THE Swiss! Same in Chelsea or Richmond, most are British, but not THE British. Porsch, same for the big shop owners, you average Swiss, with an average job and salary is not really benefiting much from the ex-pat input.

Nothing to do with xenophobia at all. But please do not put your head in the sand, the explosion in rental prices in some areas are making a very few very rich- and making it absolutely impossible for the rest. 'Ordinary' Swiss (and foreign) people just cannot afford to live in their own town anymore, where they were born and where they work- be it Zurich or Geneva, and now extending far beyond. Being p**sed off about that does not make anyone xenophobic- but it could do if things are not addressed, sadly.

At least in London they have started a London weighting allowance for key workers.

Last edited by Odile; 19.10.2011 at 17:00.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank for this useful post:
  #44  
Old 19.10.2011, 16:54
KeinFranzösisch's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 2,198
Groaned at 63 Times in 38 Posts
Thanked 2,549 Times in 1,115 Posts
KeinFranzösisch has a reputation beyond reputeKeinFranzösisch has a reputation beyond reputeKeinFranzösisch has a reputation beyond reputeKeinFranzösisch has a reputation beyond reputeKeinFranzösisch has a reputation beyond reputeKeinFranzösisch has a reputation beyond repute
Re: semi light Xenophobia

Quote:
View Post
The florist girl lived somewhere in a village in La Cote; I think her salary was something like 3000. Again, sorry sis, if you want to buy a house like your parents without a slightly more ambitious career, you'll just have to live with them for 20 years while you save up.
I thought we paid 100 chuffs for a bouquet so that they got paid 120K per year like we do.

Quote:
View Post
One could argue that at least 50% of the Expats working in Switzerland are not actually acquired.

I think Swiss employers may realise this in the coming months with the economic slow down to continue and some of us will get our notice.
Not if I give my employer my notice first.
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 19.10.2011, 17:12
AbFab's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Zürich
Posts: 8,519
Groaned at 364 Times in 251 Posts
Thanked 12,724 Times in 4,341 Posts
AbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond repute
Re: semi light Xenophobia

Quote:
View Post
Do the expats not go and spend copious amounts of money at Migros and coop? Are everyday average job people able to afford to get their laundry done at 5 A sec?

The English speaking expats stimulate the economy.
Buying SUVs from dealers who can speak English and spending copious amounts at Coop and Migros is not the point.

It's the same the world over. My experience is in the UK the rich from the south east bought property in the country for holiday homes and weekends. The estate agents were delighted and the local antique shops as well as the up-market restaurants and locals selling houses.

Meanwhile the rest of the locals were forced out of the property market altogether as the incomers forced up values. Many Swiss see this happening here...
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank AbFab for this useful post:
  #46  
Old 19.10.2011, 17:17
The_Love_Doctor's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Zugerberg, Zug
Posts: 3,266
Groaned at 72 Times in 58 Posts
Thanked 3,715 Times in 1,747 Posts
The_Love_Doctor has a reputation beyond reputeThe_Love_Doctor has a reputation beyond reputeThe_Love_Doctor has a reputation beyond reputeThe_Love_Doctor has a reputation beyond reputeThe_Love_Doctor has a reputation beyond reputeThe_Love_Doctor has a reputation beyond repute
Re: semi light Xenophobia

Quote:
View Post
Buying SUVs from dealers who can speak English and spending copious amounts at Coop and Migros is not the point.

It's the same the world over. My experience is in the UK the rich from the south east bought property in the country for holiday homes and weekends. The estate agents were delighted and the local antique shops as well as the up-market restaurants and locals selling houses.

Meanwhile the rest of the locals were forced out of the property market altogether as the incomers forced up values. Many Swiss see this happening here...
Had to google the name for this as I remember it was discussed a while ago but forgot the exact term...

Here it is! It's called Gentrification
Reply With Quote
The following 5 users would like to thank The_Love_Doctor for this useful post:
  #47  
Old 19.10.2011, 17:19
KeinFranzösisch's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 2,198
Groaned at 63 Times in 38 Posts
Thanked 2,549 Times in 1,115 Posts
KeinFranzösisch has a reputation beyond reputeKeinFranzösisch has a reputation beyond reputeKeinFranzösisch has a reputation beyond reputeKeinFranzösisch has a reputation beyond reputeKeinFranzösisch has a reputation beyond reputeKeinFranzösisch has a reputation beyond repute
Re: semi light Xenophobia

Quote:
View Post
Buying SUVs from dealers who can speak English and spending copious amounts at Coop and Migros is not the point.

It's the same the world over. My experience is in the UK the rich from the south east bought property in the country for holiday homes and weekends. The estate agents were delighted and the local antique shops as well as the up-market restaurants and locals selling houses.

Meanwhile the rest of the locals were forced out of the property market altogether as the incomers forced up values. Many Swiss see this happening here...
Same thing happened in the DC area. Washingtonians bought holiday homes in the West Virginia panhandle and on the Delmarva coast, sending property values skyrocketing. The local businesses loved it. Realtors loved it. Homeowners loved it. But anyone who actually had to try and live in the area on their meger wages hated it and had to move elsewhere.

It wasn't necessarily the fault of any "foreigner". So maybe the lesson to be learned by the complainants here in Switzerland is that "foreign" and "affluence" are not synonymous.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank KeinFranzösisch for this useful post:
  #48  
Old 19.10.2011, 17:26
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Ticino & London
Posts: 2,016
Groaned at 173 Times in 93 Posts
Thanked 1,139 Times in 628 Posts
Cashboy has a reputation beyond reputeCashboy has a reputation beyond reputeCashboy has a reputation beyond reputeCashboy has a reputation beyond repute
Re: semi light Xenophobia

Quote:
View Post
Switzerland should cope with this population growth by liberalizing the housing market, expanding housing zones, allow for more construction density and expanding infrastructure. The FDP usually refrains from refrains from calls for cultural integration of expats.
BUT why would they want to?

Surely any one would prefer to see a herd of cows in the rolling hills and mountains than a load of concrete buildings full of ex-pats moaning about not being able to shower after 10:00pm.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Cashboy for this useful post:
  #49  
Old 19.10.2011, 17:30
porsch1909
 
Posts: n/a
Re: semi light Xenophobia

Quote:
View Post
Buying SUVs from dealers who can speak English and spending copious amounts at Coop and Migros is not the point.

It's the same the world over. My experience is in the UK the rich from the south east bought property in the country for holiday homes and weekends. The estate agents were delighted and the local antique shops as well as the up-market restaurants and locals selling houses.

Meanwhile the rest of the locals were forced out of the property market altogether as the incomers forced up values. Many Swiss see this happening here...
I guess we can take the money we earn using our English and spend it elsewhere. You know those English language skills that stimulate the economy as well I'd imagine?

It's always the foreigners to blame for the locals not being able to afford a house. Never 'they should have worked harder at school'

Last edited by porsch1909; 19.10.2011 at 17:41.
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 19.10.2011, 17:33
yjt yjt is offline
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Aargau
Posts: 586
Groaned at 12 Times in 10 Posts
Thanked 601 Times in 261 Posts
yjt has a reputation beyond reputeyjt has a reputation beyond reputeyjt has a reputation beyond reputeyjt has a reputation beyond repute
Re: semi light Xenophobia

I agree with Simons post above.

Essentially the perfect world scenario for Switzerland is that it attracts companies from around the world who then employs purely Swiss citizens. These will be able to live where they want regardless of wages. New buildings will be built conservativly with only a few floors and there's plenty of green room. Oh and everyone uses public transport and on the motorways there is never traffic.

This scenario though will never exist. Personally I kind of welcome the debate which is appearing around living space.

On one hand the show is right . Many foreigners are coming here and increasing the demand for flats.

On the other hand if companies couldn't hire these people, many of these companies would relocate resulting in the loss of Swiss jobs and thus higher unemployment rate and higher taxes etc.

If Switzerland decides to continue like it is then an increasing population is inevitable which in turn requires that the country builds the necessary infrastructure. New Accomedation is required, either through building higher or spreading out which will lead to the destruction of green area. Both things which are reluctantly done.

I find as well some people have a simplified view of the issue. I feel some say ''hmm if there's 3% unemployment all we have to do is chuck 3% foreigners and then everyone will have a job''
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank yjt for this useful post:
  #51  
Old 19.10.2011, 17:34
AbFab's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Zürich
Posts: 8,519
Groaned at 364 Times in 251 Posts
Thanked 12,724 Times in 4,341 Posts
AbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond repute
Re: semi light Xenophobia

Quote:
View Post
I guess we can take the money we earn using our English and spend it elsewhere. You know those English language skills that stimulate the economy as well I'd imagine?
You are free to do whatever you want.

I suppose we could even argue that the Swiss who find property too expensive in the home towns and long lines at the supermarket are stupid for not jumping on the bandwagon with the SUV dealers...
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 19.10.2011, 18:01
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 12,361
Groaned at 340 Times in 276 Posts
Thanked 26,264 Times in 11,001 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: semi light Xenophobia

Quote:
View Post
It's always the foreigners to blame for the locals not being able to afford a house. Never 'they should have worked harder at school'
This is the core of the problem, It's applying anglo thinking to a Swiss situation.

Anglo thinking is all about the rat race. If you're not working hard to get to the top you're a failure. It starts with the education system. Look how often schools in anglo countries talk about educating "leaders of tomorrow" and such BS, not realising that a society made entirely of leaders is heading nowhere. Vocational training in contrast is poor and people not striving upwards are considered failures. That's the reason anglo countries totally suck at things like manufacturing or engineering compared to say Germany or Switzerland.

Much of the rest of the world likes to believe that people who aren't elbowing their way up and pretending to be the leader of tomorow have worth nevertheless. Therefore telling them that "it's your own fault you aren't at the top" is missing the bigger picture in a big way.
Reply With Quote
The following 12 users would like to thank amogles for this useful post:
  #53  
Old 19.10.2011, 18:03
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: semi light Xenophobia

Porsch, some did work very hard indeed, but chose to work in careers that do not make huge money- teachers, nurses, etc. A decade ago, this would have afforded them a decent flat, and the possibility of moving to a larger flat if and when they decide to have a family - only to find that the prices have exploded and they have been pushed out of their locality due to this.
Are you saying that a society can function with only bankers and big business tycoons- and that all the rest can lump it? These rises have happened extremely quickly, which is why they are causing so much upset.
This is NOT xenophobia. Xenophobia and racism = being anti foreigner for no reason, just because they are 'foreign'. Most Swiss I know who have had to move away from Geneva or Zurich due to rising prices have never been, and are not (yet) anti-foreigner at all- but they are dead against what is happening with re-location agents, etc, having direct access to all new rentals, at hugely inflated prices, totally by-passing the local population.

Problem is, if this is not acknowledged as a real problem, and addressed, these people may well be tempted to the anti-foreign propaganda of the UDC/SVP at some point. Can't you see that?
Reply With Quote
The following 7 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #54  
Old 19.10.2011, 18:15
mirfield's Avatar
Moddy Wellies
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 8,726
Groaned at 53 Times in 47 Posts
Thanked 9,915 Times in 3,646 Posts
mirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond repute
Re: semi light Xenophobia

I mean, it's not as if Geneva is short of space to build new housing estates.

Plenty of room here

Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old 19.10.2011, 18:22
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: At home
Posts: 4,167
Groaned at 208 Times in 133 Posts
Thanked 6,403 Times in 2,719 Posts
Faltrad has a reputation beyond reputeFaltrad has a reputation beyond reputeFaltrad has a reputation beyond reputeFaltrad has a reputation beyond reputeFaltrad has a reputation beyond reputeFaltrad has a reputation beyond repute
Re: semi light Xenophobia

Quote:
View Post
I mean, it's not as if Geneva is short of space to build new housing estates.

Plenty of room here
Don't ask yourself where you want to build but whose vote you need in order to be allowed to.
Direct democracy means that the political culture of the place overrules economics and sometimes even common sense. Geneva city is the first to fight for more space to build. And guess what... logic discribed above in my post (I am probably the guy called Farid by Simon) and Simon's post applies.
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old 19.10.2011, 18:22
AbFab's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Zürich
Posts: 8,519
Groaned at 364 Times in 251 Posts
Thanked 12,724 Times in 4,341 Posts
AbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond repute
Re: semi light Xenophobia

Quote:
View Post
I mean, it's not as if Geneva is short of space to build new housing estates.

Plenty of room here
Yep. the same "let's release green belt for building" debate is in full swing in the UK...
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank AbFab for this useful post:
  #57  
Old 19.10.2011, 18:27
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: semi light Xenophobia

A lot more space in the UK though. Much of Switzerland is not available for crops or houses due to a huge % taken up by mountains and lakes.
So a/ Switzerland needs arable land b/ 'the' Swiss would quite like a bit of pleasant landscape left to enjoy- ta very muchly and not too keen on concreting the lot.

Fair enough, Id say.
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old 19.10.2011, 18:30
summerrain's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 4,350
Groaned at 4 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 985 Times in 325 Posts
summerrain has a reputation beyond reputesummerrain has a reputation beyond reputesummerrain has a reputation beyond reputesummerrain has a reputation beyond reputesummerrain has a reputation beyond reputesummerrain has a reputation beyond repute
Re: semi light Xenophobia

Quote:
At least in London they have started a London weighting allowance for key workers.
And the Swiss government doesnt? You need to be earning at least above a certain amount in order to qualify for a work permit. It is especially difficult for non EU citizens.

If its employing in cheaper foreign labour to maximise profits thus forcing the locals to accept a lower pay, then I accept that there is a problem with how the government functions - but there simply isnt enough qualified talent/work force from this country that they have to look elsewhere and pay these expats an attractive salary.


Quote:
Porsch, some did work very hard indeed, but chose to work in careers that do not make huge money- teachers, nurses, etc. A decade ago, this would have afforded them a decent flat, and the possibility of moving to a larger flat if and when they decide to have a family - only to find that the prices have exploded and they have been pushed out of their locality due to this.
Fair point Odile but this is not just happening in Switzerland per se. It has already happened to many other big cities around the world. Globalisation leads to influx of immigrants and all that - demand for extra housing when there is no space pushes the prices up. So yes, sorry - tough. You chose to be a teacher, nurse or florist - fine. No one is questioning your choice to do what you want. But dont whinge when you are pushed out by people with higher earning power because they are doing jobs which are in more demand and considered much more "skilled".
__________________
Remember when someone annoys you, it takes 42 muscles to frown, BUT it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and b****-slap the mother-f***er upside the head.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank summerrain for this useful post:
  #59  
Old 19.10.2011, 18:32
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Zurich
Posts: 4,933
Groaned at 184 Times in 120 Posts
Thanked 8,569 Times in 2,875 Posts
Kittster has a reputation beyond reputeKittster has a reputation beyond reputeKittster has a reputation beyond reputeKittster has a reputation beyond reputeKittster has a reputation beyond reputeKittster has a reputation beyond repute
Re: semi light Xenophobia

The other problem is that everyone seems to want that detached house with a garden, regardless of whether they have kids or not. And I'm afraid this is particularly strongly felt by people who have grown up elsewhere, probably due to the idea of "apartment = not quite made it, rental apartment = total failure". We don't have room for all those detached houses with gardens, simple as that, so those that exist go to those who pay the most, the most being a lot more than makes sense to most locals. Unless you want to live out in the sticks, then you too can have your own castle.

Furthermore, while it was perfectly normal for the set-up to be "one bedroom per person living in a household" not that long ago, most of my single friends will not have anything less than three rooms all for themselves, with quite a few couples living in 4.5 room apartments - without kids. Now if everyone needs that much more space, what on earth is a family with three kids going to live in? An eight room house? How many of those have you seen on the market at an affordable price?

Many foreigners who arrive have to take what is available and landlords are not welfare organisations. I guess if the newbies were more clued-up and prepared, this could be halted. And the problem is also one of expectations of space, as mentioned above, only more extreme, especially for those coming from the US, where everyone seems to have garages the size of my apartment and houses the size of the entire floor of my building. At least that's the impression you get from some of the posts here...

Of course I want a house with a garden too, purely because it annoys me to have neighbours drilling holes in the walls at 10pm at night on a Sunday or walking like elephants. On the other hand, I would quite like to have impromptu karaoke sessions at 3 am without having the police at my door. And because I don't want to share my bomb shelter.

Buuut, it's not going to happen, at least not under my own steam, so I have to accept the disadvantages of apartment life, which are actually not that bad if you don't spend your time focussing on it. This, again, may be harder for those who are simply used to something else and I guess that's where integrating properly helps. Instead of fighting the rules, just channel your inner sheep (black, grey, multicoloured, whatever) and accept that it's the way it's done. Being a bit more "rule-accepting" will in turn cut down on the number of Swiss huffing and puffing about "bloody foreigners" and everybody wins.
Reply With Quote
The following 6 users would like to thank Kittster for this useful post:
  #60  
Old 19.10.2011, 18:34
Carlos R's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Roundn'about Basel
Posts: 7,232
Groaned at 105 Times in 95 Posts
Thanked 9,934 Times in 4,178 Posts
Carlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond repute
Re: semi light Xenophobia

How exactly could I be taking a Swiss person's job?

Our company - a Swiss company - hires employees freely. I applied for a job and got it. That means that I didn't take a person's job, I was simply the best candidate (yeah, go figure) who applied. If a Swiss person wants the job, then get the right qualifications and apply.

There are some minor conditions attached - like speaking very good English - but you don't have to be a native (although it does help). Currently we employ 4 Brits, 1 Bulgarian, 2 French, 1 Swede, 1 naturalised Swiss and a German.

Any Swiss wishing to apply, step up to the plate if you think you are hard enough. But don't moan that we took your job, because it was never yours to have.
__________________
Never let right or wrong get in the way of a good opinion
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank Carlos R for this useful post:
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Cafe Wollishofen, xenophobia Bassiq Complaints corner 154 18.05.2011 10:50
10.000 lux of Light (light craving) Guest Family matters/health 9 16.12.2010 22:20
Xenophobia or Racism Arkin Complaints corner 6 25.03.2007 13:49
Xenophobia and Switzerland / the Swiss nickatbasel Complaints corner 18 20.11.2006 18:56


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 21:35.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0