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Old 19.10.2011, 19:28
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Re: semi light Xenophobia

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Middle-income people cannot afford to buy properties, while this is the case in England (I used to live there) and in France for example.

In the past it was also easier here in Switzerland, for instance my own parents could buy a nice house back in 1985.

Now this is not possible and people are becoming frustrated, can't you understand it?

But the expats are not to be blamed, they came because we made the wrong political choices.
I'm not sure I can take someone seriously who calls Switzerland, Swiss.

Nobody has the right to buy property. If you can't afford to buy a property then rent a property. Save money for a down payment, get a promotion at work then when you are older and can afford to buy, then buy something. Nobody has things handed to themselves on a plate and they should only get frustrated at themselves if they can't afford the things they want in life.
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  #82  
Old 19.10.2011, 19:32
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Re: semi light Xenophobia

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Well, it's not the expat's fault that there is a complete lack of living space IMO...
The Swiss back in 1815 in Vienna refused the really pro-Swiss proposals of Czar Alexander I who already then forecast the Switzerland one day in the future was to meet a serious shortage of space. He wanted Switzerland to take over a major slice of Burgundy, the Southern Alsace, the Vorarlberg, the Veltlin/Valtellina, and some minor territories around. This all not too longer after Imperial Russian troops had freed Switzerland from French occupation.
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Old 19.10.2011, 19:36
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Re: semi light Xenophobia

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The Swiss back in 1815 in Vienna refused the really pro-Swiss proposals of Czar Alexander I who already then forecast the Switzerland one day in the future was to meet a serious shortage of space. He wanted Switzerland to take over a major slice of Burgundy, the Southern Alsace, the Vorarlberg, the Veltlin/Valtellina, and some minor territories around. This all not too longer after Imperial Russian troops had freed Switzerland from French occupation.
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  #84  
Old 19.10.2011, 19:39
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Re: semi light Xenophobia

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Thank you. Case closed. Switzerland should have stuck to its closed-society and live in its own bubble, whilst the world moves on without them.

Can we move on now?
By wrong choice I meant luring foreign companies with low taxes without planning for the consequences!

I don't think we should close our borders, not at all.
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Old 19.10.2011, 19:40
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Re: semi light Xenophobia

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I mean, it's not as if Geneva is short of space to build new housing estates.

Plenty of room here

I strongly suppose that THIS area on the photo is "reserved" and cannot be used for buildings.

I can only take a rough guess and suppose that the Arve is on the left and the border towards Annemasse on the right ??
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  #86  
Old 19.10.2011, 19:41
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Re: semi light Xenophobia

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are not (yet) anti-foreigner at all- but they are dead against what is happening with re-location agents, etc, having direct access to all new rentals, at hugely inflated prices, totally by-passing the local population.
Odile, and whose fault is that? Most Swiss landlors would run a mile when they hear where some of us are. I got my apt. through an "evil" relocation agent, paid by the company I work for, and believe me I prefer to pay a little bit more than the average Swiss instead of sleeping on a bench in a park. That is why I thank God relocation agents exist.
Yeah, xenophobia can backfire. And not only that, I know a Swiss girl (French) who bought a house close to Zurich which was 3-4 years with the same price on the market. The Swiss landlord didn't want to drop a rappen..
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Old 19.10.2011, 19:46
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Re: semi light Xenophobia

It's really is the case, the presence of expats does raise the rents sky-high in Geneva.
Is it anyone's fault ? no, it's just a response to the supply and demand.

Nevertheless, as a result, it remains a very difficult task for Mr EverydayGuy, to find decent flats at affordable prices.
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Old 19.10.2011, 19:57
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Re: semi light Xenophobia

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Something good with a bit of very good wine ! And old Russian history was prime interest of my best history teacher
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Rudolf Meier, the superb historian who was the main-author of the book portrayed here
http://www.wollishofen-zh.ch/htm/quartier/chronik.htm
and in fact printed his understanding of history upon me . The man passed away in August 1999, but I will never forget him
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Old 19.10.2011, 20:00
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Re: semi light Xenophobia

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Here is a logic exercize:
- Complaining about expats putting the prizes up in Geneva implies foreigners making more money than Swiss.
- Complaining about expats coming to CH for lower salaries than Swiss implies exactly that, lower salaries.

Either a big fail in logic OR local moaners have just discovered that all expats are not all the same. What a discovery...
They should have asked [expats], but it would have meant needing to speak English...
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Old 19.10.2011, 20:02
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Re: semi light Xenophobia

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They should have asked [expats], but it would have meant needing to speak English...
or German, as many of the owners are from the "Suisse Alémanique"
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Old 19.10.2011, 20:03
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Re: semi light Xenophobia

As Geneva is stuffed to the brim- companies are indeed locating or re-locating further down the Lake, and in the Fribourg and Neuchatel region (look at the number of recent arrivals on EF moving there). Neuchatel has recently dropped their business rate by a huge amount to encourage that, actually. And prices are beginning to rise at the same time.

Summerrain (edited with apologies) I am NOT blaming foreigners as individuals at all, and certainly NOT anti-foreigner at all either. I can see all the good points and advantages, and YET I feel it is important we also acknowledge that, as in most things, there are pros as well as cons, and that many 'locals' are indeed feeling the pinch. Again, if this is not addressed, many might well turn anti- and that would be to everybody's detriment. Sadly the UDC/SVP is waiting for this to happen - tragic.

Last edited by Odile; 19.10.2011 at 20:52.
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Old 19.10.2011, 20:08
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Re: semi light Xenophobia

Am I the only one who doesnt really care?

My philosophy is, if the Swiss throw me out - then it's their loss. They hired me so they want ME to work for them. Naturally I also want to work for them, but it's not difficult for me to find another job and even though I like the Alps and cheese and stuff I'm sure I would be as happy in any other west european country as I'm here. Happiness comes from within, not from absolutely being on this or that side of a border.
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Old 19.10.2011, 20:10
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Re: semi light Xenophobia

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As Geneva is stuffed to the brim- companies are indeed locating or re-locating further down the Lake, and in the Fribourg and Neuchatel region (look at the number of recent arrivals on EF moving there). Neuchatel has recently dropped their business rate by a huge amount to encourage that, actually. And prices are beginning to rise at the same time.

Summerterrain, I am NOT blaming foreigners as individuals at all, and certainly NOT anti-foreigner at all either. I can see all the good points and advantages, and YET I feel it is important we also acknowledge that, as in most things, there are pros as well as cons, and that many 'locals' are indeed feeling the pinch. Again, if this is not addressed, many might well turn anti- and that would be to everybody's detriment. Sadly the UDC/SVP is waiting for this to happen - tragic.
Neuenburg/Neuchâtel having rising prices ? Having heard about the downtown of NE between WWII and 1966 and having seen its gradual decline for decades after that ( the loss of the international schools and NE university dropping out of international favour ) this may be the start of a renewal for this city. I still remembered that my parents after a visit to NE in about 1973 were rather shocked as they no longer saw the vibrant and dynamic multicultural place they remembered from about 1936/37 but a thoroughly sleeply provincial place
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Old 19.10.2011, 20:14
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Re: semi light Xenophobia

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Summerterrain, I am NOT blaming foreigners as individuals at all, and certainly NOT anti-foreigner at all either. I can see all the good points and advantages, and YET I feel it is important we also acknowledge that, as in most things, there are pros as well as cons, and that many 'locals' are indeed feeling the pinch. Again, if this is not addressed, many might well turn anti- and that would be to everybody's detriment. Sadly the UDC/SVP is waiting for this to happen - tragic.
Odile, maybe when you go back and re-read my post, to see that I HAVE NEVER said that you were blaming foreigners, then maybe, we can have a proper discussion.

And oh, stop calling me summerterrain.
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Old 19.10.2011, 20:18
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Re: semi light Xenophobia

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They should have asked [expats], but it would have meant needing to speak English...
or German, as many of the owners are from the "Suisse Alémanique"
Keep up Wolli - it's in the first post, in bold...

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Here is an interesting article I found in BAZ. It talks about a show aired by TSR (some Romand TV channel) which "described" how
expats are to blame for the rapidly increasing rental costs.

http://politblog.bazonline.ch/blog/i...-lane/?lang=de

Here a quote from the article translated for you:

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They drive SUVs, live in posh neighborshoods, send their kids to private schools, Have their own customs and only speak English. Because of these arrogant invaders rental prices explode in our peaceful areas, the roads in our villages are polluted and the locals can not afford to stay here.
IMO, if Switzerland wouldn't have all them SUV driving, arrogant, only English speaking expats, then coutnry wouldn't be what it claims to represent.

What are your thoughts on this subject?
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Old 19.10.2011, 20:20
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Re: semi light Xenophobia

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Neuenburg/Neuchâtel having rising prices ? Having heard about the downtown of NE between WWII and 1966 and having seen its gradual decline for decades after that ( the loss of the international schools and NE university dropping out of international favour ) this may be the start of a renewal for this city. I still remembered that my parents after a visit to NE in about 1973 were rather shocked as they no longer saw the vibrant and dynamic multicultural place they remembered from about 1936/37 but a thoroughly sleeply provincial place
There is a lot going on in Neuchatel. Baxter is here, johnson and johnson have labs and offices here, philip morris have big labs and offices here as well.

EPFL are also building a new 80 million franc building in the mighty Neuch.

http://actu.epfl.ch/news/epfl-boosts...-in-neuchatel/

There is also cellgene and a lot of big watch brands.
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Old 19.10.2011, 20:24
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Re: semi light Xenophobia

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Something good with a bit of very good wine ! And old Russian history was prime interest of my best history teacher
-
Rudolf Meier, the superb historian who was the main-author of the book portrayed here
http://www.wollishofen-zh.ch/htm/quartier/chronik.htm
and in fact printed his understanding of history upon me . The man passed away in August 1999, but I will never forget him
oh Wolli......
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Old 20.10.2011, 11:39
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Re: semi light Xenophobia

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I strongly suppose that THIS area on the photo is "reserved" and cannot be used for buildings.

I can only take a rough guess and suppose that the Arve is on the left and the border towards Annemasse on the right ??
I've no idea. I just looked for the nicest bit of Genevan countryside I could find in a 30 second google search. I'm guessing there is a cycle trail nearby, if that helps.
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  #99  
Old 21.10.2011, 09:51
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Re: semi light Xenophobia

All I can say that there is a growing housing crisis in this area, La Cote, as there has been in Geneva for years. Not sure if 'blame' a certain group of people, politicians that caused it, etc... will ever be able to be attributed to someone. But living in this area for many years the local media and everyone you speak to on the street cannot ignore the correlation of the numerous relocations of many multinational companies and the subsequent difficulties and price rises in lodging. A colleague was looking for a house at the time of the P&G move, and the real estate agent told her the company backed the relocation of these people and basically block-purcahsed the whole new development my colleague was interested in buying into, no luck, and impossible to compete with the financial backing of P&G.

Geneva started this trend some 15 years ago, and now that it is saturated, it has spread to Vaud. There was once an interview with some Devopement arm of Canton Geneve, and he stated that when a company is considering relocating to Geneva, they check with the int'l schools and the real estate market to see if they can be accomodated, etc. seemed quite logical. However, I am not so sure the same is now done for Vaud today. Anyhow, for what it is worth, the local paper reported just last week that Gland, one of the very growing large villages of La Cote, population more than doubled since 1980, and they are always building new housing there, has had to institute a housing subsidy in order for modest income families to be able to stay and live there. Due to the housing crisis, families with low or modest incomes were squeezed out and had no place to live. By approving this subsidy they hoped that this would help the situation.
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Old 21.10.2011, 10:33
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Re: semi light Xenophobia

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Thank you. Case closed. Switzerland should have stuck to its closed-society and live in its own bubble, whilst the world moves on without them.

Can we move on now?
I think you have it backwards. "Switzerland is leaving the rest of the world behind." They're seeing a growing problem and they're going to come up with a solution. Since Switzerland isn't into trying to be "politically correct" a lot of expats are going to have to lower their arrogant little heads. However, since Switzerland "will tackle the problem" the usual jargon will be quoted "they're xenophobic" when in reality they're just trying to keep their country in tact. The Swiss first tactic will be controlled immigration which is what they're working on now. Too many coming in, not enough going out. Next Zurich has already passed a new law about international schools, since many expats come to Switzlerand and don't bother to integrate themselves or their children. Of course, cases vary depending on how long the expat plans to stay in Switzerland. So the issue is being tackled, and eventually we may see quite a few expat packing their suitcases. To be fair it's not just expats however, Greece is having loads of turmoil and many of those out of work want to come to Switzerland for jobs. Same with Spain, Portugal etc...That always happens in Europe because Switzerland is stable and very wealthy. I do think that expats give themselves too much credit, which I see expressed on this thread. It's as if some expats think "Switzerland didn't exist before they came." Whenever they decide to leave, Switzerland will do just fine.
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