That was a totally different matter. It was a party which was derailed by some chaots, and was not funny at all.
Wolli, it was a tongue-in-cheek remark about the antics of rioters here in Zurich, not a thesis on the current world economic situation. Jeez, let it go.
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Wolli, it was a tongue-in-cheek remark about the antics of rioters here in Zurich, not a thesis on the current world economic situation. Jeez, let it go.
ok ok ok but the most noteable aspect about the anti bankers demos was that they went ahead without violence and major destruction.
Could you post a link please showing how much the Swiss taxpayer has lost on the UBS bailout. English or German is fine, but from a reputable source (i.e. NZZ not Blick).
The Swiss government made a profit out of the share it bought in UBS, which was then invested by UBS in the "bad bank" as an equity buffer. I would be very interested to see how much the bad bank fund is now worth, whether the losses or gains are paper or realised and whether it has used it's equity buffer.
The Swiss government would have made a profit also out of a share bought in Swissair, but bankers are far more noble people. Add to this that the UBS only should have sold a bit more of its shares on the international markets
Where then is the problem. The problem is that lots of Swiss are shocked if parts of Swiss companies or Swiss companies in total are purchased by foreigners but regard it as completely normal that Swiss companies own or purchase companies abroad. The CH ownership of companies around the globe is 20 or 30 times (at least ) larger then the foreign ownership in Swiss companies. AND, look at the former Swissair companies. Most of them are foreign owned, but generally work better than ever. I cannot tell you how many of those foreign owners have are or have become Swiss owned. Swiss International Airlines now under Lufthansa management is workihg better than Swissair ever did.
UBS should have been "floated" on the international free market in accordance to market rules. People now say that CH made some profits when putting UBS shares up for sales later on. This may well be, but clearly too much capital was fixed into one single company.
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I love the ideas propagated by the Occupy Movements. The idea is to change. We have to all get together and change the system in which we live, and that means Universally. We, the human species can't live in this economy, which on itself is an ironic kind of use of that word because "economy" doesn't exist anymore.
I encourage everyone to open their minds and look forward.
Seing "do love not war" in giant chalk in paradeplatz got me thinking just when exactly switzerland last involved themselves in any war (besides the odd peacekeepers here and there)...
the occupy protests should protest whats relevant to the country they are protesting in. A big part of the demands of the movement are based around the american system (as can be seen here), which with its private federal reserve is eating up their own economy.
Whilst corporate greed does exist in CH, I cannot see some CEO of a corporation going, "oh dear, a bunch of hippies are prancing around with signs in paradeplatz... i might just take a giant paycut next year".
So how relevant are these protests in CH, given CH is already democratic to a point where if enough signatures are gathered, the nation votes on the issue...
Last edited by piazza; 25.10.2011 at 13:28.
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A big part of the demands of the movement are based around the america system (as can be seen here), which with its private federal reserve is eating up their own economy.
Quote:
The Sovereign People's Movement, represented nationally through the people occupying the various Liberty Square locations across this great country, have laid out and democratically submitted and are currently voting on the list of following Demands to then be distilled into one Unified Common demand of the people
Yikes. Someone needs to explain to those people that writing things in a drawn-out and hard-to-follow fashion does not make it sound more impressive, just dumber. They sound like they're trying to imitation the Declaration of Independence or such.
The Swiss government would have made a profit also out of a share bought in Swissair, but bankers are far more noble people. Add to this that the UBS only should have sold a bit more of its shares on the international markets
Where then is the problem. The problem is that lots of Swiss are shocked if parts of Swiss companies or Swiss companies in total are purchased by foreigners but regard it as completely normal that Swiss companies own or purchase companies abroad. The CH ownership of companies around the globe is 20 or 30 times (at least ) larger then the foreign ownership in Swiss companies. AND, look at the former Swissair companies. Most of them are foreign owned, but generally work better than ever. I cannot tell you how many of those foreign owners have are or have become Swiss owned. Swiss International Airlines now under Lufthansa management is workihg better than Swissair ever did.
UBS should have been "floated" on the international free market in accordance to market rules. People now say that CH made some profits when putting UBS shares up for sales later on. This may well be, but clearly too much capital was fixed into one single company.
Not one of those links (I admit I didn't read the Blick article - I already have you stating opinion as fact, so don't need a second source of the same). They are all talking about the stake that the Swiss government took in UBS. These articles are from 2009. Since then the stake was sold on at a profit. You have not answered my question, so I will ask again: How much of a loss has the Swiss taxpayer/government lost on its bailout of UBS? I've even told you where you may find the answer, but you haven't. At this stage I can only conclude it is because UBS hasn't cost the taxpayer money, a fact which doesn't support the popularist position you are taking.
As to why UBS was saved and why Swissair wasn't, I would not disagree with you, but would suggest that a rather more important reason, is that an airline is not systematically important and the consequences for the global and Swiss economy are rather easier to model than the consequences of UBS going the way of Lehman Brothers.
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Yes the state has made a profit with their UBS bailout if you want, but for me that does not make up for the fact that the state should not intervene in private banks, however big they may be. If, and that's very unlikely, any large bank in CH would go bankrupt, there are procedures and methods to go through that process which would save private savers and system relevant lending as well as mortgages. Same should have been done with European banks and Greece, a massive one-time write off as Greece would be unable to pay back its loans and after that a slow, painful recovery from a lower base, but a recovery nevertheless.
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