Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Swiss politics/news  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #81  
Old 27.10.2011, 16:14
Phil_MCR's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Basel
Posts: 15,037
Groaned at 295 Times in 199 Posts
Thanked 19,127 Times in 8,045 Posts
Phil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Novartis announces 2,000 job losses

Quote:
View Post
Most of my friends/classmates are in IT, they expect to find a pink slip on their desk when they reach office any day May feel heartless, but from the company's perspective, I find it justifiable.

What I find hard to get is crudeness, like involving security personnel, announcing on the PA system.

Or, saying 30% of you are going to be axed 6 months from now when we outsource blah blah, but we won't tell you which ones of you will go (as someone was posting an real example earlier). I mean, how can any employee do anything except perhaps the most clerical things under such environment Won't it do more harm than good? Like disgruntled people stealing data, etc.?
what you also have to understand is that a lot of things that happen, and the reason it happens is also down to legal requirements.
Reply With Quote
  #82  
Old 27.10.2011, 16:47
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: ZH
Posts: 1,185
Groaned at 15 Times in 13 Posts
Thanked 77 Times in 72 Posts
danny has earned some respectdanny has earned some respect
Re: Novartis announces 2,000 job losses

Quote:
View Post
With Emirates, its also for parents, parents-in-law etc. I still get two frees (ID90%) from my sibling. The only issue is, if I have to go to SFO or LAX I have to go to Dubai first and then connect.

I know in the UK the public sector redundancies have been happening quite regularly and they are going to be worse with all these austerity measures. Think about the Greek public sector workers
Canada's public sector is one of the best.
Reply With Quote
  #83  
Old 27.10.2011, 16:49
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: ZH
Posts: 1,185
Groaned at 15 Times in 13 Posts
Thanked 77 Times in 72 Posts
danny has earned some respectdanny has earned some respect
Re: Novartis announces 2,000 job losses

Quote:
View Post
A shame. They're going to close down their division in Nyon and fire all employees there; a factory they built over the acquisition in 1996 of the local firm Zyma and which is dedicated to produce over the counter drugs. So basically they bought a competitor and less than two decades later they just shut it down. Bravo Novartis. Out of the 1,080 persons being laid off in Switzerland, 320 are there in Nyon and 760 in Bāle. Considering proportionality and the fact that Zyma was a very well considered local firm and that less than 3 years ago they were promising a bright future for the plant, it's not hard to understand why sometimes les suisses romands have sometimes a negative view of those guys on the other side of Sarine.
Probably the jobs are there but in China. That is where most people are moving right now. China all the way.
Reply With Quote
  #84  
Old 27.10.2011, 16:59
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: La Cote
Posts: 382
Groaned at 18 Times in 8 Posts
Thanked 307 Times in 147 Posts
Nyonais has made some interesting contributions
Re: Novartis announces 2,000 job losses

Quote:
View Post
Nice way to attract and retain talent.
The above sentence is straight out the PR blurb of the HR dept of any company. When it comes to crunch time, this "attracting and retaining talent" BS is the last thing on anyone's mind. In case of my last company, the only thing "they" had in mind was to reduce the number of employees to the level specified by the CEO and his HR goon. The questions such as what talent was being lost, how much experience was being lost, how were they to cope with the on going projects, how would the company's image be affected, what impact would it have on the company's customer service etc. were all brushed aside with "we will see what happens". Everyone involved was focused on meeting the required target ( number of employees to be reduced) and meeting the budgeted numbers. There were instructions, confidentially, to look for employees over a certain age, above certain grades etc. to achieve maximum value for each "hit".

The pay cuts and reduced perks etc. are only means to tide over tough times. No one says they have to be permanent. If the company is even (reasonably) transparent with the employees, they can respond positively, as was the case with Emirates. The fact that the organisation is doing its bit to protect its employees can have a very positive effect on the employees. I know of a manufacturing company where the orders had almost dried up during the crisis. The employees were offered a 40% pay cut or complete redundancy. Most opted to stay back. During the lean period, those who opted to stay back were asked to perform complete maintenance and overhaul, get the records updated, carry out internal training etc. I can't remember the name of this company - it was a parts supplier to the US auto industry. Its activities are now back to normal.

In the end, I also agree with Village Idiot that there is no nice way of firing people or getting fired.
__________________
Some times you are the pigeon, some times the statue!

Last edited by Nyonais; 27.10.2011 at 17:14.
Reply With Quote
  #85  
Old 27.10.2011, 17:05
drmom's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Somewhere in SG
Posts: 2,341
Groaned at 12 Times in 12 Posts
Thanked 2,187 Times in 1,050 Posts
drmom has a reputation beyond reputedrmom has a reputation beyond reputedrmom has a reputation beyond reputedrmom has a reputation beyond reputedrmom has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Novartis announces 2,000 job losses

Quote:
View Post
Great idea. But how many people do you know that would willingly take a 10% pay cut so that somebody they don't even know can keep their job? Relatively few, I'd wager.
I would. In fact I did, back in 2001. Of course, it didn't help, I got laid off in the 2nd round of lay offs 3 months later (that noone knew were coming, unlike the first one)
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank drmom for this useful post:
  #86  
Old 27.10.2011, 17:09
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Novartis announces 2,000 job losses

Quote:
View Post
In the end, I also agree with Village Idiot that there is no nice way of firing people or getting fired.
Maybe not, But there are certainly some really crap ways...
Reply With Quote
  #87  
Old 27.10.2011, 17:11
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: La Cote
Posts: 382
Groaned at 18 Times in 8 Posts
Thanked 307 Times in 147 Posts
Nyonais has made some interesting contributions
Re: Novartis announces 2,000 job losses

Quote:
View Post
Maybe not, But there are certainly some really crap ways...
Sure, one worse than the other...
Reply With Quote
  #88  
Old 27.10.2011, 17:53
oldmanc's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: ex-CH-8058 Now in the Sandpit
Posts: 376
Groaned at 5 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 410 Times in 164 Posts
oldmanc is considered knowledgeableoldmanc is considered knowledgeableoldmanc is considered knowledgeable
Re: Novartis announces 2,000 job losses

Quote:
View Post
...snipped...

It was almost like being dumped - you are in love, doing everything you can, enjoying life and thinking everything is going well etc. ...
May I quote my old Economics Lecturer from University 25 years ago

"Never love your company, because it is incapable of loving you back"

He was right.

Personally, I learnt that in real-life when Big Airways of West London went down the Outsourcing Route for my section and then Swissair went bankrupt.

Nowadays I go to work to keep out of the way of Mrs OM and to help feed my children I exaggerate, but I have learnt NOT to love my Employer.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank oldmanc for this useful post:
  #89  
Old 27.10.2011, 18:24
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: La Cote
Posts: 382
Groaned at 18 Times in 8 Posts
Thanked 307 Times in 147 Posts
Nyonais has made some interesting contributions
Re: Novartis announces 2,000 job losses

Quote:
View Post
May I quote my old Economics Lecturer from University 25 years ago

"Never love your company, because it is incapable of loving you back"

He was right.

Personally, I learnt that in real-life when Big Airways of West London went down the Outsourcing Route for my section and then Swissair went bankrupt.

Nowadays I go to work to keep out of the way of Mrs OM and to help feed my children I exaggerate, but I have learnt NOT to love my Employer.
Very wise old Lecturer I might add. I have learnt the same lesson the hard way. In the corporate environment at least, you need to love yourself more than anything/anyone
Reply With Quote
  #90  
Old 27.10.2011, 18:43
Village Idiot's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Basel
Posts: 3,744
Groaned at 35 Times in 32 Posts
Thanked 7,034 Times in 2,277 Posts
Village Idiot has a reputation beyond reputeVillage Idiot has a reputation beyond reputeVillage Idiot has a reputation beyond reputeVillage Idiot has a reputation beyond reputeVillage Idiot has a reputation beyond reputeVillage Idiot has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Novartis announces 2,000 job losses

Quote:
View Post
I know of a manufacturing company where the orders had almost dried up during the crisis. The employees were offered a 40% pay cut or complete redundancy. Most opted to stay back. During the lean period, those who opted to stay back were asked to perform complete maintenance and overhaul, get the records updated, carry out internal training etc.
You're comparing apples and oranges here. A temporary wage reduction (I suspect hours were cut as well) helps cyclical industries like manufacturing and airlines get through tough patches without having to resort to layoffs.

The Novartis problem is a little different: they're faced with a huge, on-going hit to their income in the form of a patent cliff. They need to make cuts that will help them remain competitive despite this. At the same time, they don't want to cut the overall effort in their research & development activity -- that's where their future income will come from -- they just want to do it more cost-effectively.

Cutting wages by 20% won't help unless those wages can stay cut by 20%, and then you have to worry about whether they could continue to attract talent in the Swiss market (particularly as they need to offer high enough salaries to lure a large number of expats to Basel). By contrast, moving the work to lower-cost environments means that they can get their sustainable 20% savings while still remaining competitive in the local labour market.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Village Idiot for this useful post:
  #91  
Old 27.10.2011, 21:15
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 298
Groaned at 67 Times in 27 Posts
Thanked 219 Times in 111 Posts
UktoSwiss is considered a nuisanceUktoSwiss is considered a nuisanceUktoSwiss is considered a nuisance
Re: Novartis announces 2,000 job losses

Quote:
View Post
May I quote my old Economics Lecturer from University 25 years ago

"Never love your company, because it is incapable of loving you back"

He was right.

Personally, I learnt that in real-life when Big Airways of West London went down the Outsourcing Route for my section and then Swissair went bankrupt.

Nowadays I go to work to keep out of the way of Mrs OM and to help feed my children I exaggerate, but I have learnt NOT to love my Employer.
I totally agree, this is the best way to keep healthy.

Staff at Novartis apparently accepted to work on Saturdays, thinking they would get anything in return. Sorry but this is naive.

Only do the bare minimum and have plenty of activities apart from work!
Reply With Quote
  #92  
Old 27.10.2011, 21:18
Nil's Avatar
Nil Nil is offline
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Basel
Posts: 10,356
Groaned at 428 Times in 333 Posts
Thanked 16,045 Times in 6,322 Posts
Nil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Novartis announces 2,000 job losses

Quote:
View Post
I totally agree, this is the best way to keep healthy.

Staff at Novartis apparently accepted to work on Saturdays, thinking they would get anything in return. Sorry but this is naive.

Only do the bare minimum and have plenty of activities apart from work!
Good if you want to stay in your position. But if you have the intention to become CFO, CEO, you have to bust your ass off.

Each their own on what they want in life.
Reply With Quote
  #93  
Old 27.10.2011, 21:24
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 298
Groaned at 67 Times in 27 Posts
Thanked 219 Times in 111 Posts
UktoSwiss is considered a nuisanceUktoSwiss is considered a nuisanceUktoSwiss is considered a nuisance
Re: Novartis announces 2,000 job losses

Quote:
View Post
Good if you want to stay in your position. But if you have the intention to become CFO, CEO, you have to bust your ass off.

Each their own on what they want in life.
Yes the 320 workers made redundant in Nyon will not make it to CEO or CFO...despite working much more than the German workers who will replace them when their jobs are moved there.

Work is too expensive in Switzerland, so first local people were replaced by imported staff mainly France and Germany (since 2004) but now with the strong franc this is not enough. Of course the pharma industry has in addition its own problems.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank UktoSwiss for this useful post:
  #94  
Old 27.10.2011, 21:32
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Basel
Posts: 391
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 759 Times in 217 Posts
Moorsholm has a reputation beyond reputeMoorsholm has a reputation beyond reputeMoorsholm has a reputation beyond reputeMoorsholm has a reputation beyond reputeMoorsholm has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Novartis announces 2,000 job losses

It's relatively easy to sit back and theorize/intellectualize about why it's necessary economically for a large corporation to cut here and cut there. But the tone of some of these posts seem to completely disregard the fact that these are real people, with lives, with kids, families who face a very uncertain future.

Easy to be an armchair expert when it's never happened to you, or when you feel "safe" in your job and world. But this can happen to anyone - talented or otherwise.

Someone close to me back in the UK is one person of many I know affected by the economic crisis. He worked in top management for a luxury German car brand for over 20 years and was made redundant last year (in his 50's) He doesn't have a cat in hell's chance of re-entering the workforce in a similar position or indeed any position at the moment. He's become so depressed he's tried to take his own life......he has a family.

The people "making the cuts" while still awarding the top few obscene bonuses can't see the real suffering behind these "economic" decisions they're making. I mean come on - why would anyone "need" several million a year!!

Of course people should be rewarded economically for their skills and efforts, but let's face it - the top 1% the CEO's of the world - command salaries and bonuses that are quite frankly obscene. The banks stuffed up yet the top people still get their big bonuses and in the meantime regular people lose their jobs......and look a little further at the situation in the UK and US....people who can't afford to heat their homes, people who can't even afford homes, pensioners and families struggle it's a sorry state of affairs.

It's a sick world in every sense of the word - and something has to change.
Reply With Quote
The following 10 users would like to thank Moorsholm for this useful post:
  #95  
Old 27.10.2011, 21:45
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Basel
Posts: 391
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 759 Times in 217 Posts
Moorsholm has a reputation beyond reputeMoorsholm has a reputation beyond reputeMoorsholm has a reputation beyond reputeMoorsholm has a reputation beyond reputeMoorsholm has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Novartis announces 2,000 job losses

Reply With Quote
  #96  
Old 27.10.2011, 21:49
Sky's Avatar
Sky Sky is offline
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Somewhere special far away
Posts: 4,322
Groaned at 69 Times in 51 Posts
Thanked 7,190 Times in 2,662 Posts
Sky has a reputation beyond reputeSky has a reputation beyond reputeSky has a reputation beyond reputeSky has a reputation beyond reputeSky has a reputation beyond reputeSky has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Novartis announces 2,000 job losses

It's a job, not a marriage.
But we become so involved, engrossed and passionate about our jobs (1/3 of every day) that it sure is hard to remember that it's just a contract.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Sky for this useful post:
  #97  
Old 27.10.2011, 21:57
adrianlondon's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Basel
Posts: 9,131
Groaned at 170 Times in 153 Posts
Thanked 25,643 Times in 6,892 Posts
adrianlondon has a reputation beyond reputeadrianlondon has a reputation beyond reputeadrianlondon has a reputation beyond reputeadrianlondon has a reputation beyond reputeadrianlondon has a reputation beyond reputeadrianlondon has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Novartis announces 2,000 job losses

Quote:
View Post
it sure is hard to remember that it's just a contract.
Depends on your employer
Reply With Quote
  #98  
Old 27.10.2011, 21:59
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: UK
Posts: 51
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 10 Times in 4 Posts
sunni has no particular reputation at present
Re: Novartis announces 2,000 job losses

Quote:
View Post
Yes, it's been pretty grim here on campus today

Our messages indicated 2000 jobs worldwide, with approx 1100 in Switzerland many of those in Basel.

Apparently my area is not affected.

But several friends have already been cut today - some who have been with Novartis/Sandoz/Ciba for 20 years plus

Just waiting to hear about hubby (meeting starts 5pm).
[Feeling quite queasy about it to be honest.]
(

Hi,
I do hope your hubby is ok - please let us know. could you tell me if everyone who is going to be cut will find out before Xmas or will they drag out the cuts for the next few months?
Reply With Quote
  #99  
Old 27.10.2011, 22:00
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 43
Groaned at 3 Times in 1 Post
Thanked 36 Times in 17 Posts
chandra is considered knowledgeablechandra is considered knowledgeablechandra is considered knowledgeable
Re: Novartis announces 2,000 job losses

Quote:
View Post
It's relatively easy to sit back and theorize/intellectualize about why it's necessary economically for a large corporation to cut here and cut there.
You mean you don't want a reasoned debate on the topic but just one sided commiserating, tch-tch-ing for what happened and lambasting companies? I thought showing to the affected parties that there is some logic on the company's side too would also lessen their pain and help them come to grips with the situation, but maybe you know better.

Quote:
View Post
Of course people should be rewarded economically for their skills and efforts, but let's face it - the top 1% the CEO's of the world - command salaries and bonuses that are quite frankly obscene.

It's a sick world in every sense of the word - and something has to change.
That's simply because the bottom 99% collectively cannot substitute the rare combination of skills, drive, vision that the top 1% has. Companies will founder if it is led by people who are happy with 9-5 routine jobs.

It is a sick world You have no idea how much worse this episode could potentially have been; the deal that these retrenched guys will be getting will be seen enviously by many people elsewhere in the world.

Anyway I would suspect this would be a long term trend, of jobs going to cheaper places, so you'd better get used to it.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank chandra for this useful post:
  #100  
Old 27.10.2011, 22:02
Nil's Avatar
Nil Nil is offline
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Basel
Posts: 10,356
Groaned at 428 Times in 333 Posts
Thanked 16,045 Times in 6,322 Posts
Nil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Novartis announces 2,000 job losses

When you look at how many millions per years Novartis spend on events for doctors, it is shocking! But what shock me more is how doctors are greedy too. Being paid huge amount of money to attend an event, 5 stars hotel, business trip and family hollidays. Redecorations of offices, etc, etc...

And someone already mentioned the fish on the Campus. I can't remember the price of a single one. I just remember how obscene it it indeed.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Nil for this useful post:
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT +2. The time now is 01:02.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0