Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Swiss politics/news  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 31.10.2011, 14:42
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Zurich
Posts: 196
Groaned at 100 Times in 44 Posts
Thanked 77 Times in 52 Posts
The Local The Local The Local The Local The Local The Local
The strength of the franc and the unsettled global economy have seen economists predict a bleak 2012 for Switzerland's tourism industry.

Read the full article: Strong franc puts Swiss tourism on downhill slope

Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 31.10.2011, 23:36
Wollishofener's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Glattbrugg
Posts: 18,978
Groaned at 332 Times in 257 Posts
Thanked 11,716 Times in 6,858 Posts
Wollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Strong franc puts Swiss tourism on downhill slope

Quote:
View Post
The strength of the franc and the unsettled global economy have seen economists predict a bleak 2012 for Switzerland's tourism industry.

Read the full article: Strong franc puts Swiss tourism on downhill slope


The reports today make it obvious that the SNB will shortly raise the €<>CHF rate from 1.20 to 1.30 or 1.35 or even 1.40 . Leading trades unionists recently demanded 1.40, so that a compromise might be 1.35
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 31.10.2011, 23:49
fatmanfilms's Avatar
The Marmite Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 21,020
Groaned at 450 Times in 344 Posts
Thanked 22,322 Times in 11,549 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Strong franc puts Swiss tourism on downhill slope

Quote:
View Post
The reports today make it obvious that the SNB will shortly raise the €<>CHF rate from 1.20 to 1.30 or 1.35 or even 1.40 . Leading trades unionists recently demanded 1.40, so that a compromise might be 1.35
They won't need to, the recession created by the high CHF plus the cost of supporting the Peg, will cause the CHF to collapse on it's own.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank fatmanfilms for this useful post:
  #4  
Old 01.11.2011, 00:04
Wollishofener's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Glattbrugg
Posts: 18,978
Groaned at 332 Times in 257 Posts
Thanked 11,716 Times in 6,858 Posts
Wollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Strong franc puts Swiss tourism on downhill slope

Quote:
View Post
They won't need to, the recession created by the high CHF plus the cost of supporting the Peg, will cause the CHF to collapse on it's own.
The almost undecent net-profit of the SNB on one side may give wrong signals to people in the world and on the other side shows that there are lots of reserves just to be used. According to specialists, the costs of the PEG were astonishingly low. Before the PEG, the speculators did not care about the actual situation of the CH economy for a second. So that, right now after the successful crisis management of Mrs Merkel, it is high time to act.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 01.11.2011, 01:16
fatmanfilms's Avatar
The Marmite Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 21,020
Groaned at 450 Times in 344 Posts
Thanked 22,322 Times in 11,549 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
It's not clear that the peg has been successful , the crisis is not over, it may not have even begun! it's too early to be drinking cool aid yet!
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank fatmanfilms for this useful post:
  #6  
Old 01.11.2011, 07:47
KeinFranzösisch's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 2,198
Groaned at 63 Times in 38 Posts
Thanked 2,549 Times in 1,115 Posts
KeinFranzösisch has a reputation beyond reputeKeinFranzösisch has a reputation beyond reputeKeinFranzösisch has a reputation beyond reputeKeinFranzösisch has a reputation beyond reputeKeinFranzösisch has a reputation beyond reputeKeinFranzösisch has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Strong franc puts Swiss tourism on downhill slope

That pretty much puts the nail in the coffin for me if SNB does raise the minimum peg.

And I sure as hell wouldn't return as a tourist if I'm driven out by a devalued salary. Europe was too expensive before. It was just starting to become affordable again.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 01.11.2011, 21:44
Wollishofener's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Glattbrugg
Posts: 18,978
Groaned at 332 Times in 257 Posts
Thanked 11,716 Times in 6,858 Posts
Wollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Strong franc puts Swiss tourism on downhill slope

Quote:
View Post
It's not clear that the peg has been successful , the crisis is not over, it may not have even begun! it's too early to be drinking cool aid yet!
Depends on what you mean by "successful". It has been successful in getting and keeping the CHF down at a halfway acceptable level.

True, more may well come. BUT, it rather is the other way round. That the SNB will be forced to raise the € level to at least 1.30 shortly, in order to stabilize the economy. The whole exercise up to now was almost free of charge, but this may not last forever.

But the SNB making heavy profits is absurd, as the SNB has not to make profits but has to be in service of the national economy.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 01.11.2011, 21:50
Wollishofener's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Glattbrugg
Posts: 18,978
Groaned at 332 Times in 257 Posts
Thanked 11,716 Times in 6,858 Posts
Wollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Strong franc puts Swiss tourism on downhill slope

Quote:
View Post
That pretty much puts the nail in the coffin for me if SNB does raise the minimum peg.

And I sure as hell wouldn't return as a tourist if I'm driven out by a devalued salary. Europe was too expensive before. It was just starting to become affordable again.
The SNB WILL raise the minimum-peg. The question is not IF but to what level and when

Few inbound-tourists are interested about salaries, they just care about their personal bills as tourists
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 01.11.2011, 22:11
fatmanfilms's Avatar
The Marmite Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 21,020
Groaned at 450 Times in 344 Posts
Thanked 22,322 Times in 11,549 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Strong franc puts Swiss tourism on downhill slope

Quote:
View Post
The SNB WILL raise the minimum-peg. The question is not IF but to what level and when

Few inbound-tourists are interested about salaries, they just care about their personal bills as tourists
When the Swiss companies have to raise salaries to find the right people, then there will be wage inflation, not such a clever strategy.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 01.11.2011, 22:49
Wollishofener's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Glattbrugg
Posts: 18,978
Groaned at 332 Times in 257 Posts
Thanked 11,716 Times in 6,858 Posts
Wollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Strong franc puts Swiss tourism on downhill slope

Quote:
View Post
When the Swiss companies have to raise salaries to find the right people, then there will be wage inflation, not such a clever strategy.
Few salaries are to be raised, but rather lowered. And there were reports about all this on TV at 21.50 out of which it became clear that the € level will get raised to at least 1.30, possibly 1.40, either very shortly, or right after the federal government elections in early December

At a time when even CS reduces its workforce, nobody is to raise salaries
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 02.11.2011, 08:34
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Zurich (Uetikon)
Posts: 222
Groaned at 4 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 194 Times in 56 Posts
Mr. Happy has earned the respect of manyMr. Happy has earned the respect of manyMr. Happy has earned the respect of many
Re: Strong franc puts Swiss tourism on downhill slope

I got a pay cut of 6% about three months ago, the company blaming strong CHF. They promised (written) to revert back to the old figure once Euro reaches 1.30 level. So I hope what you say turns out to be true..

Quote:
View Post
Few salaries are to be raised, but rather lowered. And there were reports about all this on TV at 21.50 out of which it became clear that the € level will get raised to at least 1.30, possibly 1.40, either very shortly, or right after the federal government elections in early December

At a time when even CS reduces its workforce, nobody is to raise salaries
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 02.11.2011, 09:05
fatmanfilms's Avatar
The Marmite Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 21,020
Groaned at 450 Times in 344 Posts
Thanked 22,322 Times in 11,549 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Strong franc puts Swiss tourism on downhill slope

Quote:
View Post
Few salaries are to be raised, but rather lowered. And there were reports about all this on TV at 21.50 out of which it became clear that the € level will get raised to at least 1.30, possibly 1.40, either very shortly, or right after the federal government elections in early December

At a time when even CS reduces its workforce, nobody is to raise salaries
I don't know what happy pills your taking but 1.40 is not going to happen any time soon. If the Greek people do not vote in favour of the cuts & Greece defaults 1.00 would likely be the new peg.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank fatmanfilms for this useful post:
  #13  
Old 02.11.2011, 20:32
Wollishofener's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Glattbrugg
Posts: 18,978
Groaned at 332 Times in 257 Posts
Thanked 11,716 Times in 6,858 Posts
Wollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Strong franc puts Swiss tourism on downhill slope

Quote:
View Post
I don't know what happy pills your taking but 1.40 is not going to happen any time soon. If the Greek people do not vote in favour of the cuts & Greece defaults 1.00 would likely be the new peg.
No, I do not know what pills YOU are taking, but the PEG will not and cannot be lowered as it already is too low. A PEG of 1.00 would ruin the CH economy entirely and so will not be accepted. If the Greeks vote NO, true, this will cost the SNB some 2 billions of CHF. and even 3 or 4 as soon as the PEG is raised to 1.30 as it will. Even if possibly only AFTER 14th December, with the approval by whomever then will be Federal Finance Minister, but possibly very shortly if Mrs Widmer-Schlumpf faces rising pressures and decides that raising the PEG to at least 1.30 will get her the votes of the Social-Democrats
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 02.11.2011, 20:38
Wollishofener's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Glattbrugg
Posts: 18,978
Groaned at 332 Times in 257 Posts
Thanked 11,716 Times in 6,858 Posts
Wollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Strong franc puts Swiss tourism on downhill slope

Quote:
View Post
I got a pay cut of 6% about three months ago, the company blaming strong CHF. They promised (written) to revert back to the old figure once Euro reaches 1.30 level. So I hope what you say turns out to be true..
Sorry Sir, but do you really believe that ? Do you really believe that they will "revert back" ? I already now can tell you what they will say next time "oh sorry, but the state of the economy has deteriorated"

If "experts" interviewed by Swiss TV without feeling embarassed state that the PEG ought to be raised to 1.45 to reflect realities, and then state that it in fact at best could be raised to 1.33 ...... you feel a bit dizzy. Then, they at length compare the finance-markets with the merchandise-markets etc.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 02.11.2011, 21:06
poptart's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Boston
Posts: 1,785
Groaned at 33 Times in 28 Posts
Thanked 3,013 Times in 1,242 Posts
poptart has a reputation beyond reputepoptart has a reputation beyond reputepoptart has a reputation beyond reputepoptart has a reputation beyond reputepoptart has a reputation beyond reputepoptart has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Strong franc puts Swiss tourism on downhill slope

So, Wolli..just out of curiosity because I'm just an armchair tourist in the theatre that has become the euro drama, what happens when Greece bails on the euro? I can imagine what will happen in the euro countries but am curious what will happen here. Will the peg hold? It's so hard trying to follow all the daily drama that I'm not sure I should follow the news anymore. I'm just hoping I've made the right choices and will hope for the best.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 02.11.2011, 21:22
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 298
Groaned at 67 Times in 27 Posts
Thanked 219 Times in 111 Posts
UktoSwiss is considered a nuisanceUktoSwiss is considered a nuisanceUktoSwiss is considered a nuisance
Re: Strong franc puts Swiss tourism on downhill slope

Quote:
View Post
I got a pay cut of 6% about three months ago, the company blaming strong CHF. They promised (written) to revert back to the old figure once Euro reaches 1.30 level. So I hope what you say turns out to be true..
Well they will never keep the promise! Are you new to Switzerland?

They will find an excuse and if you complain you will be sacked, or worse, bullied until you leave
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank UktoSwiss for this useful post:
  #17  
Old 02.11.2011, 21:35
fatmanfilms's Avatar
The Marmite Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 21,020
Groaned at 450 Times in 344 Posts
Thanked 22,322 Times in 11,549 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Strong franc puts Swiss tourism on downhill slope

Quote:
View Post
No, I do not know what pills YOU are taking, but the PEG will not and cannot be lowered as it already is too low. A PEG of 1.00 would ruin the CH economy entirely and so will not be accepted. If the Greeks vote NO, true, this will cost the SNB some 2 billions of CHF. and even 3 or 4 as soon as the PEG is raised to 1.30 as it will. Even if possibly only AFTER 14th December, with the approval by whomever then will be Federal Finance Minister, but possibly very shortly if Mrs Widmer-Schlumpf faces rising pressures and decides that raising the PEG to at least 1.30 will get her the votes of the Social-Democrats
Just because you feel the peg is too low, does not mean it's sustainable. The Titanic could not sink, or so they thought at the time!
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 02.11.2011, 21:49
Wollishofener's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Glattbrugg
Posts: 18,978
Groaned at 332 Times in 257 Posts
Thanked 11,716 Times in 6,858 Posts
Wollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Strong franc puts Swiss tourism on downhill slope

Quote:
View Post
So, Wolli..just out of curiosity because I'm just an armchair tourist in the theatre that has become the euro drama, what happens when Greece bails on the euro? I can imagine what will happen in the euro countries but am curious what will happen here. Will the peg hold? It's so hard trying to follow all the daily drama that I'm not sure I should follow the news anymore. I'm just hoping I've made the right choices and will hope for the best.
A) what matters most for Switzerland is that Greece which for decades was a good customer of Swiss industry is unable to pay
B) let's look at the courageous Greek Prime Minister. The man apparently has two plans
plan-a-: Yes, and he can go forward
plan-b-: No, and he has to drop out of the €-zone. This does not mean that his country will launch a new currency as it cannot. It means that Greece just like Montenegro and Kosovo (and Turkey to some extent) simply will continue to use the € but without being a formal member
C) the PEG will not hold, it HAS TO be kept, and that is a difference. And this may become an expensive affair, but necessary
C-2) let's realize that Greece has the size of Bavaria and is far smaller than NRW
D) the € will not fall as a result of a Greek NO, even if dropping a bit for an interim period. As a result, even more money will flow to Norway and Sweden. Sweden, with its heavy dependence on the export industry will have no alternative to establishing their own PEG with the €
E) the perfectly justified defence of Switzerland and Sweden may of course cause some turmoil in the international "finance markets" (a noble name for a kind of Mafia), so that you, in case you are an investor better place you assets in Eastern Asia
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 02.11.2011, 21:54
Wollishofener's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Glattbrugg
Posts: 18,978
Groaned at 332 Times in 257 Posts
Thanked 11,716 Times in 6,858 Posts
Wollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Strong franc puts Swiss tourism on downhill slope

Quote:
View Post
Just because you feel the peg is too low, does not mean it's sustainable. The Titanic could not sink, or so they thought at the time!
A) No, the present PEG is NOT sustainable. It has to be raised. This is not some "feelings" but a fight for the economic survival of Switzerland.
B) The Titanic btw. would never have sunk, hadn't the captain out of desire for a new record taken a far too risky course. This in fact was the reason why the cautious 1.20 PEG was chosen, in order not to embark on a too risky course.
C) Facts show that A) the PEG really IS too low, B) the upkeeping of the present one did not cost much at all, C) the present PEG has to be given up in favour of at least 1.30
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 02.11.2011, 22:18
Mark75's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: by the lake (either one)
Posts: 2,510
Groaned at 45 Times in 39 Posts
Thanked 3,136 Times in 1,363 Posts
Mark75 has a reputation beyond reputeMark75 has a reputation beyond reputeMark75 has a reputation beyond reputeMark75 has a reputation beyond reputeMark75 has a reputation beyond reputeMark75 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Strong franc puts Swiss tourism on downhill slope

Quote:
View Post
C) the PEG will not hold, it HAS TO be kept, and that is a difference. And this may become an expensive affair, but necessary
Once the Euro starts crashing (or just losing considerable value against USD, JPY, etc.) the SNB will have to abandon the peg immediately unless it wants to impoverish the whole country!

Quote:
View Post
C-2) let's realize that Greece has the size of Bavaria and is far smaller than NRW
In case you haven't noticed: The Eurozone's problems go way beyond Greece. Italy's on the brink, Portugal, Spain and Ireland aren't in great shape either, France is in danger of getting downgraded, the EFSF is basically full of hot air, German people are getting angrier day by day, etc.

The peg would make sense if this were some temporary overvaluation of the Swiss Franc but unfortunately the current situation is much more serious.
Reply With Quote
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT +2. The time now is 12:35.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0