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  #21  
Old 23.11.2011, 23:40
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Re: SVP lost in Bern and Ticino

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...just wondering why e.g. Giezendanner and Blocher have removed the SVP logo on their Ständerat Campaign posters......
I don't know but both have established "independent non-party support groups" in their favour, who therefore do NOT carry the SVP logo
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Old 24.11.2011, 09:57
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Re: SVP lost in Bern and Ticino

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...just wondering why e.g. Giezendanner and Blocher have removed the SVP logo on their Ständerat Campaign posters......
Well they will not get into the Ständerat with only SVP votes; they need votes from fans of other parties so I assume they try to look like they have a broader foundation.
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Old 24.11.2011, 12:51
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Re: SVP lost in Bern and Ticino

It was obvious.

Once the SVP women started wearing burkas, the party were bound to start losing support from their traditional voter base...

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Old 27.11.2011, 13:56
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Re: SVP lost in Bern and Ticino

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Toni Brunner meets a very strong opponent in the person of Mr Rechsteiner. That man is not permanently smiling but is talking about realities. He sometimes shows to be the leftist he is but may convince the rather "dry" St. Galler to be rather "the choice" than that permanently smiling "youngish noble farmer" Tony Brunner
True, with votes counted in 77 from 85 Gemeinden Rechsteiner is slightly ahead of Brunner, circa 2%.
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Old 27.11.2011, 14:52
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Re: SVP lost in Bern and Ticino

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True, with votes counted in 77 from 85 Gemeinden Rechsteiner is slightly ahead of Brunner, circa 2%.
And now it is offcial: Rechsteiner won!
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Old 27.11.2011, 16:30
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Re: SVP lost in Bern and Ticino

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And now it is offcial: Rechsteiner won!
and Blocher and Giezendanner lost, and GLP Stadler in Uri succeeded against the SVP challenger
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Old 27.11.2011, 16:35
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Re: SVP lost in Bern and Ticino

and in Basel-Stadt, a group of conservative restaurant/pub/bar-owners lost in their attempt to topple the Cantonal smoking ban in favour of the Federal rubbish. They simply lost because they lost a sense of realism. They attempted to topple the Cantonal ban. Had they made a proposition to allow full service in the fumoirs they would have won very clearly
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Old 27.11.2011, 18:11
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Re: SVP lost in Bern and Ticino

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and Blocher and Giezendanner lost, and GLP Stadler in Uri succeeded against the SVP challenger
It is hard to know why Blocher stood for this seat; it was a poor strategy that just proved how much he is losing popular support.

If you compare the result of this second vote with the first vote then we have;
verena diener +36%

felix gutzwiller 56%

blocher -5%

So it appears that not only did Blocher fail to pick up votes from other parties but he even managed to lose some SVP support?

Overall since SVP announced their new Ständerat campaign last April they have gone from 7 seats to 5.

Just checked & similar story in St Gallen
Brunner lost about 3,00 votes (-6%) between the second & first vote while Rechsteiner gained circa 10,000 (25%)

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Old 27.11.2011, 19:30
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Re: SVP lost in Bern and Ticino

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It is hard to know why Blocher stood for this seat; it was a poor strategy that just proved how much he is losing popular support.

If you compare the result of this second vote with the first vote then we have;
verena diener +36%

felix gutzwiller 56%

blocher -5%

So it appears that not only did Blocher fail to pick up votes from other parties but he even managed to lose some SVP support?

Overall since SVP announced their new Ständerat campaign last April they have gone from 7 seats to 5.

Just checked & similar story in St Gallen
Brunner lost about 3,00 votes (-6%) between the second & first vote while Rechsteiner gained circa 10,000 (25%)
"losing popular support" ? He never had popular support in the Canton of Zürich. He was never elected into the Ständerat. He has two problems in this Canton, named Zürich and Winterthur, two cities were he always has been most unpopular. And now between #1 and #2 even people in more rural areas started to side with Mr Gutzwiller and Mr Gutzwiller succeeded in getting the votes of those who had retreated.
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Old 27.11.2011, 20:00
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Re: SVP lost in Bern and Ticino

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"losing popular support" ? He never had popular support in the Canton of Zürich. He was never elected into the Ständerat. He has two problems in this Canton, named Zürich and Winterthur, two cities were he always has been most unpopular. And now between #1 and #2 even people in more rural areas started to side with Mr Gutzwiller and Mr Gutzwiller succeeded in getting the votes of those who had retreated.
Blocher got about 20% of the votes in Winterthur & about 15% in Zürich. So why did he stand as a candidate for this seat?
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  #31  
Old 27.11.2011, 23:11
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Re: SVP lost in Bern and Ticino

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Blocher got about 20% of the votes in Winterthur & about 15% in Zürich. So why did he stand as a candidate for this seat?
As he lives in Zürich could he run in any other Kanton or would he be restricted to Zürich (I think that's how it works in the States, you need to live in your constituency)

Also I see that Vaud is going to have to go to a second runoff. Will this just continue or would it eventually end up as a coin toss?
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Old 28.11.2011, 01:16
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Re: SVP lost in Bern and Ticino

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Blocher got about 20% of the votes in Winterthur & about 15% in Zürich. So why did he stand as a candidate for this seat?

He clearly hoped to get an overwhelming support in the rural areas of the Canton, and did not realize that Dr Gutzwiller is a shrewd and experienced campaigner who routinely manages to get votes from left to right, and he also underestimated Mrs Diener who also is tremendous in getting votes from quite different parts of the electorate. And he failed to realize HOW unpopular he is in this Canton quite generally.

Where else ? He was active in Graubünden, but I learnt from GR-colleagues that he was/is UNpopular there. He originates from Schaffhausen, but Schaffhausen in politial terms is LEFT of Zürich, which means that the SVP Schaffhausen is clearly to the left of Mr Blocher.

----- .................................................. .................................................. .....................

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As he lives in Zürich could he run in any other Kanton or would he be restricted to Zürich (I think that's how it works in the States, you need to live in your constituency)

Also I see that Vaud is going to have to go to a second runoff. Will this just continue or would it eventually end up as a coin toss?
Right you are in regard to the first part. In regard to the second part of your post, the result is clear

*** Die linken Ständeräte Géraldine Savary (SP) und Luc Recordon (Grüne) haben ihre Ständeratssitze im Kanton Waadt verteidigt. """

which means that also there the SVP lost out fairly clearly
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Old 28.11.2011, 08:07
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Re: SVP lost in Bern and Ticino

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Right you are in regard to the first part. In regard to the second part of your post, the result is clear

*** Die linken Ständeräte Géraldine Savary (SP) und Luc Recordon (Grüne) haben ihre Ständeratssitze im Kanton Waadt verteidigt. """

which means that also there the SVP lost out fairly clearly
In the words of Texas Governor Rick Perry, "oops"

The story referred to the Waadt Regierungsrat not the federal Standrat. I stand corrected.
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  #34  
Old 29.11.2011, 07:55
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Re: SVP lost in Bern and Ticino

Whilst the SVP have undoubtedly lost votes and their overall image has taken a hit, you still can't talk away their strong electoral showing. They still took the second largest amount of votes since their own previous success back in 2007, so they're not exactly about to disappear off the political picture just yet.

As Roger Köppel rightly said on the Radio One feature last night, you have to question the sincerity of conservative voters in having Ständerat members representing their trends and interests rather than just voting for anyone who isn't SVP. It was the CVP and FDP voters who voted SP in Sankt Gallen and put in a very left wing Ständerat member (Rechsteiner) who will hardly be standing up for conservative values.

The SVP is the only party to have stuck to their manifesto repeatedly and steadfastly. They have not meandered off into populism nor have they abandoned their voters like many other political parties. It might not be sexy or glamorous to keep on with the same rhetoric, but you know what you're getting. My criticism would only be that they didn't bring younger and more dynamic candidates to the table. A younger image would have had a chance in ZH rather than wheeling out Blocher, who is, pretty much now past his sell by date.
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Old 29.11.2011, 09:02
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Re: SVP lost in Bern and Ticino

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Whilst the SVP have undoubtedly lost votes and their overall image has taken a hit, you still can't talk away their strong electoral showing. They still took the second largest amount of votes since their own previous success back in 2007, so they're not exactly about to disappear off the political picture just yet.

As Roger Köppel rightly said on the Radio One feature last night, you have to question the sincerity of conservative voters in having Ständerat members representing their trends and interests rather than just voting for anyone who isn't SVP. It was the CVP and FDP voters who voted SP in Sankt Gallen and put in a very left wing Ständerat member (Rechsteiner) who will hardly be standing up for conservative values.

The SVP is the only party to have stuck to their manifesto repeatedly and steadfastly. They have not meandered off into populism nor have they abandoned their voters like many other political parties. It might not be sexy or glamorous to keep on with the same rhetoric, but you know what you're getting. My criticism would only be that they didn't bring younger and more dynamic candidates to the table. A younger image would have had a chance in ZH rather than wheeling out Blocher, who is, pretty much now past his sell by date.
About "It was the CVP and FDP voters who voted SP in Sankt Gallen....."

No not entirely, Brunner lost about 3,000 voters between the first round & the second round. With those 3 thousand he would be in the Ständersrat now!
Agree about "younger and more dynamic candidates" also more flexible; I mean not so harsh policies.
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Old 30.11.2011, 00:13
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Re: SVP lost in Bern and Ticino

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Whilst the SVP have undoubtedly lost votes and their overall image has taken a hit, you still can't talk away their strong electoral showing. They still took the second largest amount of votes since their own previous success back in 2007, so they're not exactly about to disappear off the political picture just yet.

As Roger Köppel rightly said on the Radio One feature last night, you have to question the sincerity of conservative voters in having Ständerat members representing their trends and interests rather than just voting for anyone who isn't SVP. It was the CVP and FDP voters who voted SP in Sankt Gallen and put in a very left wing Ständerat member (Rechsteiner) who will hardly be standing up for conservative values.

The SVP is the only party to have stuck to their manifesto repeatedly and steadfastly. They have not meandered off into populism nor have they abandoned their voters like many other political parties. It might not be sexy or glamorous to keep on with the same rhetoric, but you know what you're getting. My criticism would only be that they didn't bring younger and more dynamic candidates to the table. A younger image would have had a chance in ZH rather than wheeling out Blocher, who is, pretty much now past his sell by date.
The relative "losses" of the SVP only were so spectacular because A) the SVP sent their top-men into battle in a confrontational role alienating whomever is not SVP .... and B) because Tony Brunner so heavily boasted and bragged in a way which was unbearable. In reality, the parties who lost in a real way were CVP and FDP, because they not just lost this time but this time once again, and have been doing so for 20 years. Both CVP and FDP have for more than two decades been on a permanent decline. Their problem is the danger to fade away into history, unless they manage to turn the tide.

Back to the SVP. The SVP also became a bit of a victim of aritmethics. Right out of principle, I would have been in favour of a Gutzwiller-Blocher ticket, but out of fear that Blocher might oust Gutz... and go to Bern with Mrs Diener I voted Gutz...-Diener with this combi as the lesser evil. In Aargau, Mr Giezendanner, that transport-business-tycoon I admire, was clearly better qualified than his two opponents, but his aggressive and confrontational style and in the end was not rewarded in that compromise-minded Canton.

For a counter-idea and concept look at the Social Democrats. They raced into these elections on a relatively aggressive theoretical basis but in a decent style (look at Mr Rechsteiner) and succeeded. They apparently had it with Theodore Roosevelt "talk softly and carry a big stick"
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Old 30.11.2011, 00:23
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Re: SVP lost in Bern and Ticino

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About "It was the CVP and FDP voters who voted SP in Sankt Gallen....."

No not entirely, Brunner lost about 3,000 voters between the first round & the second round. With those 3 thousand he would be in the Ständersrat now!
Agree about "younger and more dynamic candidates" also more flexible; I mean not so harsh policies.
Again, Tony Brunner with his aggressive boasting and bragging alienated whomever was not really SVP, while Mr Rechsteiner in his conciliatory ways broke heavily into the right-of-centre electorate. How he did it shows the unique format of that gifted trades-unions leader. Mr Brunner on the other side by his style pushes back whomever is "not with him".
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Old 30.11.2011, 07:36
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Re: SVP lost in Bern and Ticino

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The SVP is the only party to have stuck to their manifesto repeatedly and steadfastly. They have not meandered off into populism nor have they abandoned their voters like many other political parties. It might not be sexy or glamorous to keep on with the same rhetoric, but you know what you're getting. My criticism would only be that they didn't bring younger and more dynamic candidates to the table. A younger image would have had a chance in ZH rather than wheeling out Blocher, who is, pretty much now past his sell by date.
SVP is an opposition and a populist party, so you can not go into a direction where you already are. People voting for SVP don't know what they get, they only what they don't want.

When it comes to "sexy & glamorous", I would say that they are ones with most "sexiest and glamorous" campaigns, I wouldn't use those words though when it comes to politics

The Swiss political is based on consensus, and since SVP never cave in, people don't believe that their approach is really good for Switzerland.
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Old 01.12.2011, 00:51
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Re: SVP lost in Bern and Ticino

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SVP is an opposition and a populist party, so you can not go into a direction where you already are. People voting for SVP don't know what they get, they only what they don't want.

When it comes to "sexy & glamorous", I would say that they are ones with most "sexiest and glamorous" campaigns, I wouldn't use those words though when it comes to politics

The Swiss political is based on consensus, and since SVP never cave in, people don't believe that their approach is really good for Switzerland.
A party with one of its leading members being the Federal Defence Minister may try to pose as being THE opposition but in reality is a GOVERNMENT PARTY. And while they fail to put a single representative into the city government of Zürich and Winterthur, they are in numerous CANTONAL GOVERNMENTS, which to me makes them THE "government party". And yes, they ARE glamourous and populist.
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Old 30.12.2011, 23:26
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Re: SVP lost in Bern and Ticino

Seems the young SVP Bern are being investigated by the police following allegations that up to half of the signatures supporting their latest "Volksinitiative" are not good or even forged.

Congratulations guys, keep up the good work on enhancing the SVP image
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