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  #61  
Old 28.11.2011, 03:40
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Re: Language key to NEW foreigner integration law

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I coincidentally went to the German embassy yesterday to get my wife a Schengen visa and thanks to the ultra fast speed they work there had some time reading the infos on the wall:

Yes, you need to speak German at level A1 if you want to immigrate.
I don't know what language proficiency level Switzerland's new law requires (Treverus is referring to Germany), so I decided to look up what language skills "A1" requires:

"Can understand and use familiar everyday expressions and very basic phrases aimed at the satisfaction of needs of a concrete type. Can introduce him/herself and others and can ask and answer questions about personal details such as where he/she lives, people he/she knows and things he/she has. Can interact in a simple way provided the other person talks slowly and clearly and is prepared to help."

That's the lowest level, and to be perfectly honest---that is very, VERY reasonable. It's not easy to reach C2 (practically fluent), and that can take years, but it is not asking too much to at least reach level A1.
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  #62  
Old 29.11.2011, 19:51
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Re: Language key to NEW foreigner integration law

If shrinking economies of Europe spreads over Switzerland, and countries like China, Turkey etc.. continues growing more than 10% each year, we may end up looking for jobs in China or Turkey or Singapore etc.... Can you imagine what if Chinese government applies a new law for fluent Chinese to be an immigrant / expat in China?
Well better I do my german homework today.
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  #63  
Old 29.11.2011, 20:12
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Re: Language key to NEW foreigner integration law

Big difference between basic communication and fluency.
Neehow.
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  #64  
Old 01.12.2011, 01:25
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Re: Language key to NEW foreigner integration law

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If shrinking economies of Europe spreads over Switzerland, and countries like China, Turkey etc.. continues growing more than 10% each year, we may end up looking for jobs in China or Turkey or Singapore etc.... Can you imagine what if Chinese government applies a new law for fluent Chinese to be an immigrant / expat in China?
Well better I do my german homework today.
If it were just the spoken language, I think most Westerners (with a little hard work) could learn Mandarin as quickly as Faltrad. The problem is the written language which even native Chinese take longer to learn than Europeans.
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  #65  
Old 01.12.2011, 03:13
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Re: Language key to NEW foreigner integration law

Not sure how many times this needs to be repeated till the last one gets it: The EU countries that currently require language skills ask for level A1 according to the Wikipedia reference-linkCommon_European_Framework_of_Reference_for_Languag es

Simple example: When I decided to move to the Netherlands, I made a beginners course in Dutch. I spend one lesson of two hours a week, which is frankly not enough to learn a lot. After one year was I at level A2 - twice as good as the requirements for non-EU people coming to Germany. You can get to A1 in a few months studying one evening a week or probably with a one week intensive course.

The level is so low that it is nowhere near the lowest IELTS or TOEFL level for English learners. It just shows a minimum of comitment. Yes, I would take some Mandarin lessons if I'd move to China. The only ones who seem to find the idea of learning other languages an uneccessary pain seems to be native English speakers.

Last edited by Treverus; 01.12.2011 at 07:04.
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  #66  
Old 01.12.2011, 11:26
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Re: Language key to NEW foreigner integration law

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Not sure how many times this needs to be repeated till the last one gets it: The EU countries that currently require language skills ask for level A1 according to the Wikipedia reference-linkCommon_European_Framework_of_Reference_for_Languag es

Simple example: When I decided to move to the Netherlands, I made a beginners course in Dutch. I spend one lesson of two hours a week, which is frankly not enough to learn a lot. After one year was I at level A2 - twice as good as the requirements for non-EU people coming to Germany. You can get to A1 in a few months studying one evening a week or probably with a one week intensive course.

The level is so low that it is nowhere near the lowest IELTS or TOEFL level for English learners. It just shows a minimum of comitment. Yes, I would take some Mandarin lessons if I'd move to China. The only ones who seem to find the idea of learning other languages an uneccessary pain seems to be native English speakers.
I think that is what I was trying to say earlier. If A1 was indeed the language level required to stay in the country, it's not asking a hell of a lot if somebody actually tries. The same is probably true for Mandarin or the other Chinese languages. (Not dialects---LANGUAGES.) The tricky part is learning how to write in Chinese without an alphabet.

Why Chinese Is So Damn Hard
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Old 01.12.2011, 17:37
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Re: Language key to NEW foreigner integration law

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Simple example: When I decided to move to the Netherlands, I made a beginners course in Dutch. I spend one lesson of two hours a week, which is frankly not enough to learn a lot. After one year was I at level A2 - twice as good as the requirements for non-EU people coming to Germany.
Agree that A1 before arrival is not much asked, but comparing German-Dutch language learning with any other language learning will end up in a big smile on my face. Dutch/German, Danish/Norwegian, Romansh/Italian, Czech/Slovakian, Bulgarian/Macedonian... that's not language learning, that's just ear training.
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Old 01.12.2011, 18:49
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Re: Language key to NEW foreigner integration law

Jambon de la mer Rodney.
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  #69  
Old 01.12.2011, 18:56
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Re: Language key to NEW foreigner integration law

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I don't know what language proficiency level Switzerland's new law requires (Treverus is referring to Germany), so I decided to look up what language skills "A1" requires:

"Can understand and use familiar everyday expressions and very basic phrases aimed at the satisfaction of needs of a concrete type. Can introduce him/herself and others and can ask and answer questions about personal details such as where he/she lives, people he/she knows and things he/she has. Can interact in a simple way provided the other person talks slowly and clearly and is prepared to help."

That's the lowest level, and to be perfectly honest---that is very, VERY reasonable. It's not easy to reach C2 (practically fluent), and that can take years, but it is not asking too much to at least reach level A1.

C2 would be very, very hard to reach if not living in a German speaking country.....

The C2 exam is pretty challenging in German, but I passed with a "good"
overall score.
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Old 01.12.2011, 19:13
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Re: Language key to NEW foreigner integration law

I had German as a teenager 20+ years ago. I feel lucky to have had it then. A1 would not be hard and I'd find it reasonable.

However, I couldn't imagine what it is like to have to go live somewhere and start learning a new language with NO background, or even without a linguistic foundation, particularly as an adult. And I think it would be nightmarish to try and do it now at my ripe old middle age.

I think if someone told me tomorrow I had to go live in Budapest and learn Hungarian to earn an A1 just to get a residency permit, I'd flip. Not nearly as daunting with some previous foreign language experience. But goodness... I really feel for those who are met with this challenge who never had such a luxury.
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