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View Poll Results: Should mosques be allowed to have a minarette?
Yes 73 52.90%
No 43 31.16%
I don't care 18 13.04%
What a minarette? 4 2.90%
Voters: 138. You may not vote on this poll

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  #241  
Old 05.02.2008, 12:19
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Re: Mosques with or without Minarette?

Thanks Principia Discordia for the info. Nathu who threatened who? What were the threats? Sounds like a complete mess. I guess that is to be expected when religion is involved.
  #242  
Old 05.02.2008, 12:40
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Re: Mosques with or without Minarette?

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Thanks Principia Discordia for the info. Nathu who threatened who? What were the threats? Sounds like a complete mess. I guess that is to be expected when religion is involved.
The article isn't rich on details – The organisers of the carnival recieved probably anonymous threats that "something bad" will happen if they burn the minaret. The police then advised them to not burn it.
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  #243  
Old 07.02.2008, 12:18
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Re: Mosques with or without Minarette?

I've read in yesterday's 20 Minuten that a couple of muslim youths have threatened the fasnacht organisers on site but couldn't figure out if this happened instead of the supposed anonymous threats, or additionally.
  #244  
Old 25.03.2008, 17:10
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Re: Mosques with or without Minarette?

I think no problem , mosques should have minarette , as churches have towers and bells in islamic countries .
  #245  
Old 25.03.2008, 22:37
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Re: Mosques with or without Minarette?

My own anecdotes:

London, Heathrow. An old man washes (quite an uncomfortable feat) in the men's restrooms. Some minutes later I spot him, quite lost looking for directions to the Mecca, and when he's satisfied he unrolls his prayer mat and recites his prayers.

Lugano, modern building (now CSIA in via Brentani). With my old band we had a rehearsal room in an abandoned office. We get there one rainy sunday only to find a big crowd of eastern european muslims having a party. We go to our rehearsal room (rolling our amplifiers along - not silently, I might add) and lo and behold, just outside of the next room there are hundreds of shoes. That room had been rented for a religious service. We turn around and on our way out in comes the mufti / mullah (I honestly couldn't tell) to preside over the function. I might add that the whoever was there was positively beaming - no bad vibes or whatnot.

The point is that the prayers can be recited anywhere - there is no need for altars, sacred grounds, minarets or synagogues.
What always leaves me suspicious is when the arguments are created and manipulated by one side (or both) - until the whole darn thing collapses in a mess of "principles" and discord.

Ayodya (spl?) and Jerusalem come to mind....

Peace,

Paul
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  #246  
Old 28.03.2008, 23:52
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Re: Mosques with or without Minarette?

If you can't spell something, chances are you don't understand what it is about!

Mineret is how it is spelt in English! And yes, I think mosques should be able to have them, just as churches have steeples and bell towers. That said I also think that religiions are the source of most of the ill in the world and we would be better off without them! But as long as we have Christian churches and Jewish synagogues why not have mosques with minerets? And Hindu temples, for that matter!
  #247  
Old 29.03.2008, 00:30
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Re: Mosques with or without Minarette?

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If you can't spell something, chances are you don't understand what it is about!

Mineret is how it is spelt in English! And yes, I think mosques should be able to have them, just as churches have steeples and bell towers. That said I also think that religiions are the source of most of the ill in the world and we would be better off without them! But as long as we have Christian churches and Jewish synagogues why not have mosques with minerets? And Hindu temples, for that matter!
It is actually spelled Minaret in English or Minarett in German. I don't think it's spelled Mineret. There seems to be a lot of confusion about the spelling of this word (minarette,, minarett, minaret, mineret). I am using dictionary.reference.com.

You have also misspelled religion. Is there a chance you don't understand what it's about?
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  #248  
Old 29.03.2008, 10:02
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Re: Mosques with or without Minarette?

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If you can't spell something, chances are you don't understand what it is about!

Mineret is how it is spelt in English! And yes, I think mosques should be able to have them, just as churches have steeples and bell towers. That said I also think that religiions are the source of most of the ill in the world and we would be better off without them! But as long as we have Christian churches and Jewish synagogues why not have mosques with minerets? And Hindu temples, for that matter!
Agree with Gooner about the spelling . Check your references and don't so quick to be accusing people of ignorance . It behooves you to correct your own mistake rather than exploit mistakes made by others .

Now to the topic at hand , I agree with you that mosques should have minarets , as it is an integral part of their structure and character .
  #249  
Old 29.03.2008, 10:26
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No more nonsense

I rather think it's time to take a step into the real world and stop this religious nonsense. Don't build mosques or churches or whatever - use that money for building schools and hospitals instead, preferably in countries where these are scarce.

Just looking at the world today - US religious nutters, Israel behaving like nazis towards the palestinians, taliban suicide bombers, religious fighting in India, the Pope not wanting Africans to use condoms and thus help spreading AIDS, etc, etc. Do people actually think more good than bad has come out of these religions?

I'd like to see a world buildt on humanitarianism, democracy and science. You don't need religion to love thy neighbour, actually, it often seems to get in the way.
  #250  
Old 29.03.2008, 10:28
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

Quite agree with spelling correction! It IS Minaret. However the mis-spelling of religion was a typo - but you are right. I do not understand about religion except for the fact that many wars in the last 2'000 years seem to have been caused by one religious group believing they have found "the right way" and that all others are either wrong or inferior and need to be "brought to the truth". Personally I think the world would be a better place if primitive man had not sought to explain phenomena he did not understand by inventing religions. That, however, is my personal opinion.
We only have one planet (at least until someone finds us another one!) so we need to live together in harmony. In my view religion does not help us to do this. Maybe it is time for a totally new religion which would be all-encompassing and therefore inclusive. Anyone volunteer as a messiah??
  #251  
Old 29.03.2008, 10:41
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

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Anyone volunteer as a messiah??
be careful what you wish for ...


  #252  
Old 29.03.2008, 11:40
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

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I do not understand about religion except for the fact that many wars in the last 2'000 years seem to have been caused by one religious group believing they have found "the right way" and that all others are either wrong or inferior and need to be "brought to the truth"
A common fallacy, the fact is however that the major causes of war are:

- Independence
- Territorial gain
- Economic gain
- Civil Disturbances


If we were to list the top 10 wars in terms of recorded casualties, you will again find that none were related to religion.

62,000,000 - World War II (1939–1945)
36,000,000 - An Lushan Rebellion (756–763)
30,000,000–60,000,000 - Mongol Conquests (13th century)
25,000,000 - Manchu conquest of Ming China (1616–1644)
20,000,000–50,000,000 - Taiping Rebellion (1851–1864)
17,000,000 - Timur Lenk's conquests (1370–1405)
15,000,000 - World War I (1914–1918)
10,000,000-25,000,000 - Second Sino-Japanese War (1931–1945)
5,000,000–9,000,000 - Russian Civil War (1917–1921)
3,800,000 - Second Congo War (1998–2004)
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  #253  
Old 29.03.2008, 13:43
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

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If we were to list the top 10 wars in terms of recorded casualties, you will again find that none were related to religion.

62,000,000 - World War II (1939–1945)
36,000,000 - An Lushan Rebellion (756–763)
30,000,000–60,000,000 - Mongol Conquests (13th century)
25,000,000 - Manchu conquest of Ming China (1616–1644)
20,000,000–50,000,000 - Taiping Rebellion (1851–1864)
17,000,000 - Timur Lenk's conquests (1370–1405)
15,000,000 - World War I (1914–1918)
10,000,000-25,000,000 - Second Sino-Japanese War (1931–1945)
5,000,000–9,000,000 - Russian Civil War (1917–1921)
3,800,000 - Second Congo War (1998–2004)
Well, war isn't the only way people die. Let's look at AIDS, for instance. It's left some 20 million dead and we have some 40 million infected with HIV. A lot of these people live in Africa, a lot of these people listen to the Pope declaring that condoms should not be used. The direct result of that is that people die, and they die in numbers which would get enter this war between science and religon into your top-ten list.
  #254  
Old 29.03.2008, 17:21
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

Guys please keep on topic. If you want to discuss wars then please start a new thread.
  #255  
Old 30.03.2008, 17:27
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

Very interesting indeed... Why this question in the 1st place? I grew up in country with Islam as the majority religion, while there's Hinduism, Buddhism, Christianity etc. I don't really have a problem with mosques with minarets sounding off early in the morning at 5am or late in the evening at 7pm etc. I don't know about the rest of the world but if one has no problems with Jehovah's Witenss, Scientology, Mormons (are considered a sect in alot of countries), then why care about mosques with or without minarets?


shannyk
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  #256  
Old 08.08.2008, 23:01
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

Stephen Colbert mentioned the minaret issue in Switzerland on Tuesday's show in his "The Word" segment: http://www.comedycentral.com/colbert...videoId=178709

"The Swiss know that the symbols for law and religion should always be separate, unless, of course, you want to put a cross on your flag."
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  #257  
Old 06.10.2009, 18:26
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

Some new developments in Basel about the minaret issue deemed racist.

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Anti-minaret poster ruled racist

Basel city authorities have banned as racist a poster which the rightwing People's Party planned to use in its anti-minaret campaign.


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Meanwhile other cities are still undecided about what attitude to adopt towards this and other anti-minaret posters.
Lucerne, Zurich and Winterthur are waiting for an expert opinion of the Federal Commission against Racism before taking a decision.

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  #258  
Old 06.10.2009, 19:09
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

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A common fallacy, the fact is however that the major causes of war are:

- Independence
- Territorial gain
- Economic gain
- Civil Disturbances

If we were to list the top 10 wars in terms of recorded casualties, you will again find that none were related to religion.

62,000,000 - World War II (1939–1945)
36,000,000 - An Lushan Rebellion (756–763)
30,000,000–60,000,000 - Mongol Conquests (13th century)
25,000,000 - Manchu conquest of Ming China (1616–1644)
20,000,000–50,000,000 - Taiping Rebellion (1851–1864)
17,000,000 - Timur Lenk's conquests (1370–1405)
15,000,000 - World War I (1914–1918)
10,000,000-25,000,000 - Second Sino-Japanese War (1931–1945)
5,000,000–9,000,000 - Russian Civil War (1917–1921)
3,800,000 - Second Congo War (1998–2004)
So just because religion did not start ALL wars it absolves it of those that it did?
  #259  
Old 06.10.2009, 20:58
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

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Currently two arguments are going on about the inclusion of building applications for a minarette as part of a mosque, one in St.Gallen and one in Soluthurn.

Is this a legitimate attempt to preserve appearance and heritage, or just plain old discrimination?

Read more here: on Swissinfo
It is xenophobic discrimination. Some SVP demagogues say that a Minaret means a demand for superiority and rule. It in reality just was the place of the Muezzin, and generally is THE decorative part of the entire building.

As no Muezzins are active in countries with non-Muslim majorities, and even if, they have their message transmitted by loudspeaker and over the radio anyway, the minaret today simply is a decorative feature. The attempt to rob Muslims of this aspect of architecture simply is mean.




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Why isn't it new v old world? The 'natives' of the Cape were subdued long ago and other cultures, beliefs and languages were surplanted.

Being brought up in SouthAfrican culture it is clear that you would not see a problem with a Swiss city skyline which contained minarettes. However, the 'natives' of Switzerland have lived and farmed here for 900 years and survived into the 21st century without invasion. Now feel they are being invaded, it would be very odd if they didn't resist...
The Ismailite Mosque in Zurich in fact is part of the Zurich skyline and now has been so for many years. And it is a very nice thing. The vote will be a narrow thing, sure, but if they lose, Switzerland will be the first western country which by public vote has made the building of minarets legal.


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If I am not mistaken - mosques don't need a minaret. It's a middle eastern convention which was taken up in Muslim the world just because it came from the birthplace of Islam.

I wish the local Muslim community would use this opportunity to build a beautiful, modern mosque - without a Minaret.

Isn't compromise the swiss way ?
In the modern world, minarets and churchtowers no longer are needed really, BUT are decorative aspects, and nice. Churches/Temples/Mosques/Synagogues should not look like factories for plastic bottles, but be decorative and nice. I do not care what religion you have or whether you pay tribute to a 50 years old bottle of Coca Cola in your shrine, what I care about is that your Coca Cola Temple looks nice !



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Exactly. Often the view of many Swiss towards integration is that people must become like them - which if it really happened wouldn't make them accepted either. Ironically the SVP calls on the Zurich mosque to pull down the minaret as a "gesture to show that they are willing to integrate". If that's what integration means then I'll have no part in it
Well, if the SVP will advocate all churchtowers to be pulled down, it might look different.



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The reason people object to a minaret is that it would change their traditional view. legitimate request, imho.

Minorities should play by the rules of the majority, as much as possible. Try to do it the other way and a clash is certain.

As the minaret doesn't fulfil any function - religious or other, I don't think it's a big deal.

We can not ignore the fact that Islam is seen a threat by many people - Willingness to compromise would make Islam less threatening.
And you promise that those people who now, with almost no minarets, see Islam as a threat, will not see Islam as a threat if without minarets ? The rule of the majority is to have churchtowers as decorative facets of the churches. Churchtowers hardly fulful any function in reality, so that many churches now go without. Is that nice ? Unless you are an atheist, please simply realize that churchtowers and minarets point up towards the old idea that God is somewhere "up". Sure, this is no longer modern, but it is symbolism.


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Not quite. It's like asking if a Church in Saudi Arabia can have a bell tower.
Nobody wants to build a mosque in the Vatican, and so, building a church in Saudi Arabia hardly can be a topic.

In the Arab World, you can find many churches in Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Egypt, Lebanon, Syria, Jordan and Iraq, which means in most of the Arab World. You can find churches in countries like Turkey and Iran (yes, indeed in the I.R.I.). And churchgoers all around, and those churches with towers.


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I completely agree, I am really not a fan of any kind of religion and seeing MORE religious buildings isn't really something I welcome. The old churches that we have in Switzerland, I can appreciate them as historic buildings that say something about the past, and value them for their architectual merit, but building very tall minarettes and any other kind of religious stuff, is not really something I'm ecstatic about. In the end, I guess it doesn't affect me at all, but I would be COMPLETELY AGAINST hearing the muezzin call to prayer in Switzerland, if that ever happened.
very tall Minarets ? Minarets have to be in accordance with the construction guidelines of Canton and town/village and are subject to complaints in the planning phase.

Muezzin call to prayer ? None of the Mosques in Western Europe makes such calls to prayer. And in Switzerland, a single call to police would result in a stop if any Imam would jump to such a strange idea. Beside the point that in Muslim countries, what you hear no longer is the "Muezzin live" but his voice over loudspeakers.


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The idea of a mosque being built in the centre of Lucerne will no doubt be a controversial issue. Will this be a welcome additional tourist attraction or would it jar with the traditional city architecture ? Would placing it in the modern part of the city be a good solution ? One thing is for certain, the SVP are opposed to it.

http://www.20min.ch/tools/suchen/story/19225269
The centre of Lucerne is baroque by style and Catholic by denomination. A Mosque simply is not to be allowed there. If there is to be a Mosque it should be in one of the suburbs.

Last edited by Wollishofener; 06.10.2009 at 22:02.
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  #260  
Old 06.10.2009, 21:05
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

I'll have my mosque without, but a spoon of sugar, thank you.
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