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View Poll Results: Should mosques be allowed to have a minarette?
Yes 73 52.90%
No 43 31.16%
I don't care 18 13.04%
What a minarette? 4 2.90%
Voters: 138. You may not vote on this poll

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  #321  
Old 08.10.2009, 00:01
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

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Stalin's constitution was one of the most "liberal" ever and he was being elected too. Oh and Iran is a democracy too.
You forgot Russia
  #322  
Old 08.10.2009, 01:46
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

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Stalin's constitution was one of the most "liberal" ever and he was being elected too. Oh and Iran is a democracy too.
There never was a "Stalin's constitution" but there indeed WAS a constitution of the USSR. And it for sure was not liberal as it fixed
>< the rule of the Communist Party
>< the rule of Communism
>< that only the Party was to nominate candidates for political office
>< that the Secretary General fixed the topics to be discussed

Iran technically IS a democracy. But
<> any candidate needs the approval of the Mullahcracy
<> those who count votes are members of the rulership
and this means that everything is restricted

in Pakistan, Mrs Bhutto and Mr Zardari were in opposition to General Musharraf and got into power by democratic elections. And in the various member states of Pakistan, state parliaments also are done in democratic elections. And there is no "government party"




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You forgot Russia
Russia now basically indeed IS democratic. A lot is talked about authoritarian methods, doubtful practices, restrictions to freedom of the media, which is all justified in a way, but basically it still is a democratic country nevertheless.
  #323  
Old 08.10.2009, 11:19
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

Let's perhaps look at the big picture before giving in to the 'let's be a good guy' temptation : for a couple decades now, but particularly in the last one, European countries, America, Australia and Canada have been crumbling under the combination of political correctness, cult of guilt relating to past wrongs, a school and press system void of any popular control and subject to the most mediocre positions, and other typical problems - in short have been showing all signs of being a civilization about to self-destroy itself. Constant elite lauding of cultures located hemispheres away and actually kneeling in front of our own is just one sign among many others.



Strong reaction is needed if we want the European order to survive just a couple more decades. This means having clear right-wing governments - I understand this wording is considered an insult on the BBC- as a Giuliani administration might have been, with clear right-wing policies. That minaret initiative is a great opportunity to show other Western countries what the PEOPLE really think when they are left with making themselves decisions.



Because, guess what : even with the predictable mots d'ordre that will aggressively be given by the press on this initiative, people from Bern, Geneva, Fribourg and Olten will probably say yes to this good initiative.


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Currently two arguments are going on about the inclusion of building applications for a minarette as part of a mosque, one in St.Gallen and one in Soluthurn.

Is this a legitimate attempt to preserve appearance and heritage, or just plain old discrimination?

Read more here: on Swissinfo
  #324  
Old 08.10.2009, 11:22
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

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Strong reaction is needed if we want the European order to survive just a couple more decades. This means having clear right-wing governments - I understand this wording is considered an insult on the BBC- as a Giuliani administration might have been, with clear right-wing policies. That minaret initiative is a great opportunity to show other Western countries what the PEOPLE really think when they are left with making themselves decisions.
Hmmm.... I see that your definition of right-wing is somewhat different to mine.

Your definition: Short sighted, populist, belligerent;

My definition: Cautious, prudent, conservative.

But then you continental Johnnies always did have a bit of a problem with understanding what the right-wing is supposed to be about, didn't you?
  #325  
Old 08.10.2009, 12:44
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

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Hmmm.... I see that your definition of right-wing is somewhat different to mine.

Your definition: Short sighted, populist, belligerent;

My definition: Cautious, prudent, conservative.

But then you continental Johnnies always did have a bit of a problem with understanding what the right-wing is supposed to be about, didn't you?
Sounds a bit Thatcher vs Heath to me, not necessarily UK vs Continental.
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  #326  
Old 08.10.2009, 12:48
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

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...Russia now basically indeed IS democratic...
Hmm, democratic in name, perhaps. North Korea is democratic using this definition.

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...Because, guess what : even with the predictable mots d'ordre that will aggressively be given by the press on this initiative, people from Bern, Geneva, Fribourg and Olten will probably say yes to this good initiative.
Dude, you are so wrong. The people don't want this initiative. Prove me wrong and I'll give you CHF10.-
  #327  
Old 08.10.2009, 19:58
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

Has anybody seen this SVP poster? What's your opinion about it?

  #328  
Old 08.10.2009, 20:21
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

It's really daft and the people of Switzerland think so too, according to polls. Hence the blitz coverage of similar posters over the coming weeks by the stirring haters on the right wing.

The 'No' campaign have this rather simple and effective reply:

(The sky over Switzerland is large enough. No to intolerance, no to the Minaret prohibition)

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  #329  
Old 08.10.2009, 20:21
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

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Hmm, democratic in name, perhaps. North Korea is democratic using this definition.



Dude, you are so wrong. The people don't want this initiative. Prove me wrong and I'll give you CHF10.-

Well, I would never compare Russia with North Korea. North Korea is a Communist dictatorship. Russia IS a democratic country, even if faulty in many respects. In regard to Russia the question rather is what the future will bring. A development towards more democracy ? A new Czar, for instance Czar Vladimir .... ? An even more authoritarian rule by secret service agents ?
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  #330  
Old 08.10.2009, 20:25
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

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Well, I would never compare Russia with North Korea. North Korea is a Communist dictatorship. Russia IS a democratic country, even if faulty in many respects. In regard to Russia the question rather is what the future will bring. A development towards more democracy ? A new Czar, for instance Czar Vladimir .... ? An even more authoritarian rule by secret service agents ?
Well, a functioning democracy is one thing. Murdering any journalist who questions the atrocities the Russian Gubberment continue to commit makes me put them in the same bracket. For illustrative purposes, of course.

Nothing against Russians. Some of my best friends are human.
  #331  
Old 09.10.2009, 08:42
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

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Well, a functioning democracy is one thing. Murdering any journalist who questions the atrocities the Russian Gubberment continue to commit makes me put them in the same bracket. For illustrative purposes, of course.

Nothing against Russians. Some of my best friends are human.
But do not forget, that murdering journalists with a free opinion in Russia is the exception and such people DO exist in Russia. In North Korea you will not find too many "questioning" journalists at work.
  #332  
Old 09.10.2009, 11:56
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

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But do not forget, that murdering journalists with a free opinion in Russia is the exception and such people DO exist in Russia. In North Korea you will not find too many "questioning" journalists at work.
Oh yes you will. In fact they work extremely hard. In quarries mostly and other governemnt-sponsored holiday facilities. :-)
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  #333  
Old 09.10.2009, 12:01
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

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Iran technically IS a democracy. But
<> any candidate needs the approval of the Mullahcracy
<> those who count votes are members of the rulership
and this means that everything is restricted
Stalin supposeldy onec said something like "it's not who votes that counts, but who counts the votes".

  #334  
Old 09.10.2009, 12:15
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

Speaking as a muslim,

Switzerland is a "christian" country, therefore I can understand why they wouldnt want a mosque to be part of thier skyline.

Think from an opposite view, would their be any churches in Mecca? (as far as I know, non muslims are not allowed to enter mecca, let alone a church being built there). Each to their own I guess.

From a neutral perspective, I think mosques look beautiful..
  #335  
Old 09.10.2009, 12:18
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

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Switzerland is a "christian" country, therefore I can understand why they wouldnt want a mosque to be part of thier skyline.
So were Egypt, Libya, Syria, Palestine, Anatolia, Albania, Bosnia, Cyprus...

They all got used to it!
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  #336  
Old 09.10.2009, 12:54
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

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Speaking as a muslim,

Switzerland is a "christian" country, therefore I can understand why they wouldnt want a mosque to be part of thier skyline.
But you compared Mecca with Switzerland. You should compared Mecca with Vatican. In that case, yes you will be right.

In a Christian countries you can find Mosques and in a Muslim countries you can find Churches.
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  #337  
Old 09.10.2009, 12:59
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

Eeeny meeny miney mo...



  #338  
Old 09.10.2009, 13:01
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

Dougal, my heart just flipped....

My dear Istanbul....
  #339  
Old 09.10.2009, 20:20
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

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Speaking as a muslim,

Switzerland is a "christian" country, therefore I can understand why they wouldnt want a mosque to be part of thier skyline.

Think from an opposite view, would their be any churches in Mecca? (as far as I know, non muslims are not allowed to enter mecca, let alone a church being built there). Each to their own I guess.

From a neutral perspective, I think mosques look beautiful..
No churches in Mekka and no mosques in the Vatican, this is clear. That the KSA on the basis of the 1932 constitution regards itself as the Muslim Vatican-State is a different aspect.

I personally think that churches with churchtowers and mosques with minarets are beautiful. What I absolutely detest are churches and mosques who look like plastic-bottles-factories or potato-warehouses or out-of-business bowling-places after 10 years of decay.
  #340  
Old 10.10.2009, 01:11
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

I think the freedom to believe is all in Switzerland, we are talking here only about the moslem, that is wrong, we should not forget here are jewish POPULATION upon with strong and hut and biert we must ban them or their kirche,no no oder other religions,no no, this intitative will loose image of Switzerland,an example the geneva rely heavily on the Arab world, our government has to rely most economically and political relationship.minerett ist only a symbol of mosque nothing else,
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