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View Poll Results: Should mosques be allowed to have a minarette?
Yes 73 52.90%
No 43 31.16%
I don't care 18 13.04%
What a minarette? 4 2.90%
Voters: 138. You may not vote on this poll

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  #441  
Old 11.10.2009, 00:27
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

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Go and look at a map of the world in 1500, and come back and tell me Islam isn't somewhat diminished in power compared to 'the good old days'.
Seriously, no messing around.

Can you point me in the direction of a map that proves your point?
  #442  
Old 11.10.2009, 00:30
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

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Seriously, no messing around.

Can you point me in the direction of a map that proves your point?
I already did.

I was pretty sure you weren't actually reading my posts.

Thank you for confirming that you are merely trolling.

  #443  
Old 11.10.2009, 00:31
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

Here is an interesting map

http://www.paradoxplace.com/Insights...01500%20BR.jpg
  #444  
Old 11.10.2009, 00:32
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

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Is that a big piece of wool you are trying to pull over people's eyes?


I wonder why.
Damn, you've rumbled me. My real name is Ahmad bin Muhammad bin Suleyman bin Umar. I'm a jihadi from Zuristan. I'm actually on my way to your house right now to forcefully convert all your women and children to Islam and have my wicked way with your servants.

Put the kettle on...
  #445  
Old 11.10.2009, 00:33
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

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I already did.

I was pretty sure you weren't actually reading my posts.

Thank you for confirming that you are merely trolling.

I'm not a troll as you very well know. I merely came back to your original quote. I am sorry if that makes you lash out due to to your inabilty to respond and accuse me of being a troll.
  #446  
Old 11.10.2009, 00:35
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

Yes, I know. That's the one I provided for you earlier in this thread.Like I observed: You haven't actually read any of my posts, have you?
  #447  
Old 11.10.2009, 00:36
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

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Damn, you've rumbled me. My real name is Ahmad bin Muhammad bin Suleyman bin Umar. I'm a jihadi from Zuristan. I'm actually on my way to your house right now to forcefully convert all your women and children to Islam and have my wicked way with your servants.

Put the kettle on...
I'll have a cuppa.

I won't sell my daughter for 3 camels though.

Look, you are an intelligent bloke and I imagine your heart is in the right place.

Your mistake is assuming that Islam as a political power is as reasonable as you.
  #448  
Old 11.10.2009, 00:41
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

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Yes, I know. That's the one I provided for you earlier in this thread.Like I observed: You haven't actually read any of my posts, have you?
I think you are getting me mixed up with someone else.

I have only been posting since page 16 on this topic. Check yourself.

You are mistaken.
  #449  
Old 11.10.2009, 00:45
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

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I think you are getting me mixed up with someone else.

I have only been posting since page 16 on this topic. Check yourself.

You are mistaken.
Sorry, my bad. Since page 17 and I did miss your map. I have been reading your posts, as hard as they are to accept - i.e. Turkey isn't a Muslim nation, 1.7 Billion Muslims don't matter because there are 1.3 Billion Chinese etc

But there you go.
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  #450  
Old 11.10.2009, 00:55
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

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Your mistake is assuming that Islam as a political power is as reasonable as you.
Not at all: From 630 AD until about the middle of the eighteenth century, Islam was a ruthless, expansionist movement, with the most advanced technology in the world, the best weapons in the world, and the hardest soldiers in the world. Over a period of just over a thousand years, it brought empires to their knees, conquered nation after nation, laid siege to and won some of the greatest cities in the world, and struck fear into the hearts of men from Iceland to Java and beyond.

Then we got the upper hand: Our forefathers discovered the Americas, built better boats than the Muslims, discovered trade routes that had never before been exploited, and, gradually, took control over the entire planet.

Colonialism is out of fashion these days, of course, but the United States and Europe still dominate the planet, while the Islamic world is reduced to sending rag tag terrorists to poke tiny holes in the fabric of our culture. As for real power: The combined forces of the most powerful Arab states in the Levant have failed again and again to destroy the tiny Zionist thorn in their side: What hope have they against the might of NATO?

Islam in the 21st century is like a dying wasp on the windowsill: It's making a lot of noise, and can sting you quite badly if you let it, but it's on its way out and hasn't the heart or the strength to pose any real threat.

I am not afraid of the Pakistanis and the Algerians and the Turks who wish to settle in Europe. Why should I be? The vast, overwhelming majority of them just want to be left alone to earn enough money to buy a BMW or a nice house for their parents. A few of them have silly ideas and like to set fire to cars, or blow themselves up, or block the traffic with their badly spelt signs for a few hours, but there aren't enough of them to make any real difference to Europe, and extremists and terrorists are hardly a new phenomenon on this continent. If it wasn't Islamists, it would be the Red Army Faction, or the IRA, or ETA, or some other bunch of losers with an axe to grind and nowhere to plug in their grinder.

The real power is ours, and will remain ours until the Indians (mainly non-Muslim) or the Chinese (mainly non-Muslim) take over.

Islam has had its day.
  #451  
Old 11.10.2009, 01:05
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

Guys for real now who cares if there are Minarets or not. The issue here is what some people are trying to portray on those frikin posters about Islam. Like if a woman wears black she's all a biiig danger to Switzerland like she'll go from door to door like some Mormons do here in Switzerland coming all the way from the States spreding the word of Jesus. Damn. Those women just shop and go pray they won't bother no ones ass around here. The church bells annoy more people, they're frikin load especially if you live near them hahaha. The women of the jewish community don't get to do anything also they have to cover their hair marry as their family tell them and don't have equal right as so called free women.

So F-that bullshit of this crappy campain and vote yes or don't vote and forget the nonesense of some weird ass politicians ^^
  #452  
Old 11.10.2009, 01:14
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

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Islam in the 21st century is like a dying wasp on the windowsill: It's making a lot of noise, and can sting you quite badly if you let it, but it's on its way out and hasn't the heart or the strength to pose any real threat.

Islam has had its day.
I hope you are right. With current demographic trends however, I fear that you are wrong.

If Europeans do nothing and current trends continue, Muslims will be in the majority in the future.

Your analysis makes a lot of the power of Western states to project military power externally.

Wouldn't a more productive strategy for Islam be to try to take Western countries over from the inside and use Western liberalism against itself?

Intentional or not, it is a strategy that seems to be in progress.

You do know that the most common name for boys in England is Muhammed?
  #453  
Old 11.10.2009, 01:21
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

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G Like if a woman wears black she's all a biiig danger to Switzerland like she'll go from door to door like some Mormons do here in Switzerland coming all the way from the States spreding the word of Jesus.
I find women dressed from head to toe in a burka highly offensive. It sets women's rights back by about 10,000 years.

Women are not owned by men. That is unless you are a Muslim man...
  #454  
Old 11.10.2009, 01:22
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

I really wouldn't worry too much about Sharia courts in the UK. These are exactly like an officially recognised tribunal or arbitration service. Both parties have to agree to settle the case in the Sharia court, so the courts of the overarching UK legal system would still be available to anyone who demanded it.

Beth Din courts have been operating in the UK in a similar manner for ages and ages.

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  #455  
Old 11.10.2009, 01:25
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

A Chimney is by far better than a Minaret
  #456  
Old 11.10.2009, 01:36
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

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A Chimney is by far better than a Minaret
You're not the first person to think that way, Macchiato:

  #457  
Old 11.10.2009, 02:19
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

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Have you considered the possibility that to a mind deformed by religious dogma any other opinions would appear "malformed"? As Robert Pirsig said in his excellent book Lila, "when one person suffers from a delusion it is called insanity. When many people suffer from a delusion it is called religion". I happen to agree with him. (He is a very talented writer by the way. Another great book by him is Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance. )
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How did you conclude from my message above that I, "the bad West" want to go somewhere and arrange things to my liking? Honestly, I do not see the connection. In case you did not know Henry got rid of the Catholic church in his own country, and by saying that we should try it I mean that we should try to get rid of religion in our own society. Did you really think that I want to go and do that somewhere in Pakistan? It wouldn't work that way, enlightenment has to come from within.
These pontifications of what we should keep and do away with look like statements of grand delusion:

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The hospitals and charities I would keep of course. But not the religious schools, thank you.
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Hey, if Henry did it...we should at least try it, no? Of course I wouldn't recommend his methods

Who are you?
  #458  
Old 11.10.2009, 03:26
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

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And do they rule those countries?

Do they control the armies of those countries?

Do they control the navies of those countries?

Do they control the air forces of those countries?

Do they control the nuclear weapons of those countries?

Do they control the economies of those countries?

Do they control the governments of those countries?

They have no power in any meaningful sense whatsoever.

I don't think the size of their armies is the key indicator of their strength.



Quote:
Islam hasn't been a serious political power for 300 years. That's why the Islamists are kicking up such a fuss - they resent the fact that the underdogs have got the upper hand now, and are doing everything they can to bring us down again.

Which, quite frankly, isn't much.

Islam as a political power is spent. A few half arsed terror attacks aren't going to change that.


They happen to be sitting on large quantities of a substance that the West is so desperately in need of.



Quote:
Colonialism is out of fashion these days, of course, but the United States and Europe still dominate the planet, while the Islamic world is reduced to sending rag tag terrorists to poke tiny holes in the fabric of our culture. As for real power: The combined forces of the most powerful Arab states in the Levant have failed again and again to destroy the tiny Zionist thorn in their side: What hope have they against the might of NATO?

The fact that Israel has the bomb, and has the backing of the US is the reason for the Arab's inability to destroy it.



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Islam in the 21st century is like a dying wasp on the windowsill: It's making a lot of noise, and can sting you quite badly if you let it, but it's on its way out and hasn't the heart or the strength to pose any real threat.
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The real power is ours, and will remain ours until the Indians (mainly non-Muslim) or the Chinese (mainly non-Muslim) take over.

Islam has had its day.


The measurement of military power is not the determining factor in the strength of a movement. We live in an era of Asymmetric Warfare. The old rules of warfare no longer apply. Overwhelming force no longer wins wars. In fact, in can be a liability.

-The 9/11 hijacking were accomplished with box-cutters. The overall effect of those box-cutters have been large-scale military, political and economic upheaval.

-Despite repeated bombardment, Israel has not able to defeat Hezbollah. Hezbollah simply wait out the bombardments, then come out and declare victory.

-The USA's "Shock and Awe" spectacle in Iraq was short-lived. The Marines got to Baghdad in a few day, then Bush declared, "Mission Accomplish". But as you can see, they are having a hell of a time getting out.

-The US is getting pulled deeper into Afghanistan. Many military analysts have stated that the Taliban has the momentum and the upper hand at the moment. The American soldiers on the ground are quickly losing resolve.

-In the same way the Soviet Union was trapped in Afghanistan to its own demise, so is the US. Economically, the US may collapse before it is ever able to defeat the Taliban.

Wars are now won by the strength of conviction and will power. The Islamist draw on a strength of conviction that the West no longer has. They can plan, strategize and operate on a longer timeframe. They can cast conflicts in terms of centuries, milleniums and perhaps even for "eternity". On the other hand, the West doesn't have the same kind of resolve. With just a little bit of discomfort and economic instability, they retreat and start arguing amongst themselves.

From a military position, the advantage is still very much with the West. But I don't think the West truly understands what it is dealing with in this arena. There is something else at play here. It isn't just a bunch of regional conflicts. There is a global movement at work here. There is a radicalization of Muslims throughout dispersed parts of the world, and it is in European cities. There are many cases of it.
  #459  
Old 11.10.2009, 06:26
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

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I find women dressed from head to toe in a burka highly offensive. It sets women's rights back by about 10,000 years.

Women are not owned by men. That is unless you are a Muslim man...

Hey, you are being very rude and extreme offensive..
What would you call than the prostitutes waiting by the roads and sold&drugged by their pimps then ? Are they also muslims? Do those women have any rights? Are they not owned by Pimps?

I am sure many of the members would think that you are racist for god's sake !!!

I travelled a lot around globe, and even lived in Turkey for example. I certainly advise you to do the same thing.
It is forbidden to consider any religion oriented thoughts in constitution by laws in Turkey. Yes they are muslims but do you know how many churches are still in service in Turkey, they are in almost every city, non of them were destroyed by government. They are tolerated people but I think people like you are not.
Because they dont see christians as a thread.

You are just talking about the radicals... Radicals are everywhere..You dont have to blame all muslims in the world... Have you ever met a radical christian or jewish? Well I tell you I met many of them back in US, and believe me they are more offensive than others.

What are you afraid of? Do you think one day a muslim will show up and put a gun on your head and force you to convert "in Switzerland" ?
Or do you think they will locate snipers on top of minarettes, are you scared of this would happen?

I think this topic already finalized by votes of englisforum. ch members.
See the results above.

I am outta here, and will not post&read anything else under this topic anymore.
  #460  
Old 11.10.2009, 09:31
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

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Hey, you are being very rude and extreme offensive..

I am sure many of the members would think that you are racist for god's sake !!!
Sorry but that doesn't stick.

Women being forced by Muslim men to wear burkas from head to toe is what is offensive, not me disliking it.

Is this what we can look forward to when Muslim numbers further increase?

Western people who object to women being subjugated by Muslim men being accused of being rude and extremely offensive racists?

I think you have your logic a little back to front mate. I will stand up and argue for Western cultural values, while you can continue to be an advocate for medieval Middle Eastern ones.


And you have the twisted logic to call me a racist. Unbelievable.
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