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View Poll Results: Should mosques be allowed to have a minarette?
Yes 73 52.90%
No 43 31.16%
I don't care 18 13.04%
What a minarette? 4 2.90%
Voters: 138. You may not vote on this poll

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  #481  
Old 11.10.2009, 19:11
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

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...I am disturbed that this forum is now giving a voice to those who openly express support for the BNP.
The BNP is not an illegal political party in the UK. The membership of the English Forum is broad and all constructive discussion is welcomed. We grit our teeth sometimes, though...

Last edited by Uncle Max; 11.10.2009 at 19:36. Reason: typo
  #482  
Old 11.10.2009, 19:18
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

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The BNP is not an illegal political party in the UK. The membership of the English Forum is broad and all constructive discussion is welcomed. We get grit our teeth sometimes, though...
Fair enough . . . not sure it's doing much for house prices around here though
  #483  
Old 11.10.2009, 20:01
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

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I am disturbed that this forum is now giving a voice to those who openly express support for the BNP.

You are too quick to jump to conclusions.

I don't support the BNP.

Last edited by gpzrd350; 20.10.2009 at 01:26.
  #484  
Old 11.10.2009, 20:08
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

Meanwhile, back to the topic of the initiative....

How many minarets are Muslim communities actually asking to build? I suspect it is not many. And even with each Minaret project, it still has to go through local approval. It's not as if the defeat of this proposal provides blanket permission for just anyone to build a minaret. So this initiative is clearly an undemocratic proposal, don't you think?
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  #485  
Old 11.10.2009, 20:13
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

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The BNP is not an illegal political party in the UK. The membership of the English Forum is broad and all constructive discussion is welcomed. We grit our teeth sometimes, though...
The point is, the established parties are ignoring the problem of Muslim Immigration. The media is very quick to play the bigot card.

Until I moved to Switzerland, one of my best friend's was Jewish. At University I was friends with black blokes.


Playing the bigot card clearly isn't working as witnessed by the comments sections of the Times Online and the Daily Mail.

Lots of people are being draw to a party that 10 years ago they would have found entirely repulsive purely because they have no where else to go.


Which is kind of sad for everyone.

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  #486  
Old 11.10.2009, 20:26
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

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Please don't confuse the appearance of numbnuts in mainstream society with mainstream society. I'm still not saying you're a numbnut.
Both the Times and the Daily Mail allow readers to vote whether they approve or not with comments.

It appears that the numbnuts' opinions are very popular.

The politically correct apologists seem to be very unpopular on both newspapers comments sections as witnessed by the votes. Please understand that I am not suggesting that you are a politically correct apologist.

Last edited by gpzrd350; 11.10.2009 at 20:45.
  #487  
Old 11.10.2009, 21:33
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

It's really something I don't care that much, but as would tell my mum :

If we can build our Churches with that nice bell towers in their countries, they can build minaret here.....
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Old 12.10.2009, 00:01
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

  #489  
Old 12.10.2009, 00:26
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

They should go to war torn countries like Iraq and Afghanistan to build their magnificient Mosques and Minarets,which will helps the youths have jobs and further those war ridden countries's infrastructural development.Why building in CH,if not to show the presence of Islam
  #490  
Old 12.10.2009, 01:45
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

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They should go to war torn countries like Iraq and Afghanistan to build their magnificient Mosques and Minarets,which will helps the youths have jobs and further those war ridden countries's infrastructural development.Why building in CH,if not to show the presence of Islam
Well, because Muslims in Switzerland need a place to worship and it's traditional for a mosque to have minaret (as far as I know, I'm no great expert). I wouldn't expect anyone to demand that a church was built without a spire.

I understand the point made that if a church can be built in a Muslim country then why not allow a mosque to be built in a Christian country. I think we can go further than this though . . . even if churches were banned in all Muslim countries (which is not the case) we should still be happy with mosques being built here: It's a sign of our tolerant and open society.

Switzerland is nowhere near being 'swamped' by Muslims, so why the worry over a few minarets?

I don't buy that this is simply an aesthetic concern about maintaining a traditional skyline . . . there appear to be few worries about modern(ist), secular architecture.

Last edited by Gastro Gnome; 12.10.2009 at 03:08.
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  #491  
Old 12.10.2009, 07:21
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

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It's really something I don't care that much, but as would tell my mum :

If we can build our Churches with that nice bell towers in their countries, they can build minaret here.....
Perhaps the point is people who may wish to see a minaret at their place of worship may be as Swiss as Heidi. What country should 'they' return to? What religion should the Swiss be?

Oh, yeah, all Muslims come here to conquer our country, decapitate our leaders and convert us to Islam...
  #492  
Old 12.10.2009, 08:55
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

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So the highest Muslim cleric in Iran appointing the president after a 'fair' and 'above board' election, had nothing to do with Islam being a politcal power?


Right.


So the Turkish political party in power that has reintroduced head scarves because of its non secular Islamic leanings has nothing to do with Islam being a politcal power?

Right.



By the way, the Pope is NOT a Catholic. As simple as that.
Wrong. The Iranian Mullahcracy is NOT leading the Muslim World, as they as Shi'ites are a minority and insignificant

Wrong. Turkey has NOT reintroduced head scarves, whenever those of the party in power try to widen the areas where head scarves are allowed. But to speak as if they had made it mandatory for women to wear head scarves is wrong

Wrong. Turkey is, since 1922, no longer in leadership of Islam.

Wrong. The Shi'ites did not accept the Ummayad, Abbasid or Osman Kaliphs as leaders of Islam, for obvious reasons
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  #493  
Old 12.10.2009, 08:58
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

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It's a very interesting topic and I'm swaying to and fro on how I feel.

My first initial reaction to the upcoming vote was that everyone should have the infrastructure to carry out their religion. No matter where they are. It's only ethical.

Then I got talking to a Brit who told me what he has seen happen in England since the building of mosques.

And please correct me if I got any part of this story wrong.

According to my friend, England now has many large Islam communities centered around their place of worship. These communities have isolated themselves from the outside world, have their own schools and do not enforce English as a language to learn, hence many people (mostly women) still speak a foreign language and need translators when going to doctors, etc... The peer pressure in these communities often lead to a stronger theocratic following than even in their "home country." Women wear their burka-like garments, are pressured into arranged marriages and are frowned upon when trying to break out of their community.

After hearing my friend's story, I began to wonder about the repercutions about mosques, minarets, and large, devoted Islam communities.

I was shocked and disappointed at seeing all the black-garmented women with covered faces shopping along Oxford Street during my last visit to London. I truly felt the middle ages have returned to England with its influx of devout Muslim followers.

Because my feelings are stronger when it comes to discrimination towards women than allowing the building of minarets, I will say "no" to minarets.

In all honesty, has England become a better place with all the active and "isolated" Islamic communities? Can the government still enforce its laws in these tight-knit communities or are people frightened of fanatic retaliation?

I am honestly interested in your opinion. Thanks.
since the building of the mosques ? There are many mosques in Switzerland and have been so for many years. The governments still can enforce its laws. Beside the point that most Muslims in Europe are not "isolated", and a majority is in favour of civil law and not in favour of Koranic law.
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Old 12.10.2009, 09:02
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

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I have heard that even the Muslims in the USA and Europe are different. The USA gets the engineers and the like and we in Europe get the working class Muslims.

As a consequence its the European working class who tend to have to live beside immigrant working class Muslims and it is safe to say that in the UK there is a huge amount of ill feeling towards them.

No mainstream UK political party will admit that there is a problem and if you are an upper-middle class Oxbridge graduate MP then there is no problem.


People who have watched their hometown get taken over by Muslim immigrants are often less ambivalent.
Interesting. Taxi-drivers are engineers. While owners and employees in travel agencies and transport companies, journalists and commercial employees and professors are working class. Suggest, you contact Prof Dr Amin at Amin Travel in Zurich. It may be new to him.
  #495  
Old 12.10.2009, 09:06
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

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They should go to war torn countries like Iraq and Afghanistan to build their magnificient Mosques and Minarets,which will helps the youths have jobs and further those war ridden countries's infrastructural development.Why building in CH,if not to show the presence of Islam
"They" build mosques where they are. And why should they go to Iraq or to Afghanistan ?
  #496  
Old 12.10.2009, 10:49
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

When the polemic started I considered to vote yes to the initiative, not because the proposal but because the lack of willingness to debate and propose alternatives by the “respectable” parties. The government did not want to touch the issue and hoped that the clearly negative proposal will be rejected. They usually do not oppose a (most likely milder) counter initiative unless the initiative might pass.

The origin of the initiative was the opposition in few towns to the construction of minarets. The appeal were granted at the cantonal level (in Bern at least IIRC) and a group was formed to bring the subject in front of the people. Those activists are turning the object into a popular vote on “islamization”.
While I am all interested in the emergence of a “Swiss Islam”, I am less attracted by the xenophobic message that emerged from the campaign.
  #497  
Old 12.10.2009, 10:53
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

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Perhaps the point is people who may wish to see a minaret at their place of worship may be as Swiss as Heidi. What country should 'they' return to? What religion should the Swiss be?
Well... obviously as a pre-dominantly Christian country, the religion should be Christian. No-one should have ANY problems with other religions being practised in the same country, but there is no reason whatsoever why they should accept competing religions dominating the skylines in the same way their own churches do. The Christian and Ismalic faiths are not compatible, why on earth should they have to look at minuets spiralling into the sky alongside Christian churches that have been there for hundreds and hundreds of years? Yes, skylines change over time, but Switzerland is an old and traditional city, I personally think it wouldn't be pelasant to see new mosque minuets sharing the same magnificent skyline, when the people who worship there are a minority and do not share the same history as the city.
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Old 12.10.2009, 11:04
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

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The Christian and Ismalic faiths are not compatible, why on earth should they have to look at minuets spiralling into the sky alongside Christian churches that have been there for hundreds and hundreds of years?
Architecturally not compatible?

You do know why mosques have domes, right?
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Old 12.10.2009, 11:07
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

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Architecturally not compatible?

You do know why mosques have domes, right?
Did I say architecturally compatible? Hmm reading back, I don't believe I did...
  #500  
Old 12.10.2009, 11:08
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

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Did I say architecturally compatible? Hmm reading back, I don't believe I did... but don't let that stop you.
Well, I assumed... what other compatibility would you wish to take into account when organizing a skyline?
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