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View Poll Results: Should mosques be allowed to have a minarette?
Yes 73 52.90%
No 43 31.16%
I don't care 18 13.04%
What a minarette? 4 2.90%
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  #641  
Old 14.10.2009, 11:04
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

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To put it short, what your mate says, is rubbish. Except that Jakarta is riots-prone, based on local "instability". But Indonesians living elsewhere are not prone to rioting, which shows that it has nothing to do with their nation or religion.
Thats what he meant. Its Jakarta's Muslims that are prone to riots.

I want however want to make it clear that I don't want to cause offence.

Nor do I do want to inflame this issue. I shouldn't have used my mate's experience as an example due to the huge scope to misinterpret my motives for doing so.



Two Muslim fanatics did shoot at him though (actually him and his mate).



Sad to say.
  #642  
Old 14.10.2009, 11:08
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

There was a similar issue in Switzerland's history. When the Protestants wanted to build a church in a Catholic Canton (or vice-versa), all hell broke loose. There was public opposition to such a radical idea. And now, of course, it's not an issue at all.
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  #643  
Old 14.10.2009, 11:08
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

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Thats what he meant. Its Jakarta's Muslims that are prone to riots.

I want however want to make it clear that I don't want to cause offence.

Nor do I do want to inflame this issue. I shouldn't have used my mate's experience as an example due to the huge scope to misinterpret my motives for doing so.



Two Muslim fanatics did shoot at him though (actually him and his mate).



Sad to say.
Well... You are not really good at it!
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  #644  
Old 14.10.2009, 11:13
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

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Well... You are not really good at it!
That's true. I have always been a bit diplomatically challenged.

I apologise for inflaming the issue. I've been feeling terrible all morning to be honest.

Sorry for causing offence and stressing people out. Life is too short.
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  #645  
Old 14.10.2009, 11:21
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

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Your mate apparently realized that the two men first of all were criminals and second not representative. You in your statement talk as if he was wrong. Ever considered that he may be right and you wrong ?
And now reverse the situation and imagine an incident with two Swiss men shooting at a muslim. We'd have the newspapers of the world and the UNO security council complaining about racist Switzerland for months and months. We'd have the SVP trying to explain it wasn't them, and we'd have Calmy Rey jetting around the world wearing her headdress and apologising to Muslim leaders. Jean Ziegler would write at least four books about it and the ANTIFA in Zürich would burn dozens of cars.

Did the incident you describe even make it to the local press?
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  #646  
Old 14.10.2009, 11:26
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

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There was a similar issue in Switzerland's history. When the Protestants wanted to build a church in a Catholic Canton (or vice-versa), all hell broke loose. There was public opposition to such a radical idea. And now, of course, it's not an issue at all.
And most Christians seem to have calmed down a bit since then, e.g. they don't burn heretics any more. Maybe buildings promote integration rather than segregation?
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  #647  
Old 14.10.2009, 11:41
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

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Its just a matter of time ... if not now then in 15 years you will definitely start seeing minarets ... the ball has just been set rolling ..
We already have minarets, alfred007. Not many, but they're there and nobody really notices them. Nobody notices the beautiful art-deco detail on old offices; the shape of individual trees; the position of the stars or the plants on a roof terrace, because nobody ever looks up. A spire / tower / minaret encourages one to look upwards metaphorically as well as physically.

There's a picture I posted many pages ago of the mosque near Hirslanden in Zurich. It's on a main road, rather conventional in appearance and pretty discrete. They don't have a call to prayer, ring bells or cause parking problems. What could the problem be? Fundamentalists? Maybe there are a few. A community centre providing spiritual and cultural support for people from a wide catchment area? Terrifying.

On another 'racism' thread many moons ago I mentioned the Greek Orthodox church on the corner of Kornhausbrücke and Rousseaustrasse in Zurich. The followers erected a Gold plated dome which was objected to by numbnuts somewhere and they had to build a white 'cover' around the dome, so as not to offend sensibilities. It makes me cringe that a church has a magnificent Gold dome and nobody gets to see it due to bigotry. The man who funded the church's construction did so in memory of his brother, who'd been killed in a terrorist attack. But someone panicked and thought we'd be swamped by old men with beards in long robes... waittasecond...
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  #648  
Old 14.10.2009, 13:48
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

Would,nt the money be better spent reducing the poverty level and increasing the quality of life of those that remain in the countries where the local community originally come from? (Muslim and non-Muslim alike ),
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  #649  
Old 14.10.2009, 14:03
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

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Would,nt the money be better spent reducing the poverty level and increasing the quality of life of those that remain in the countries where the local community originally come from? (Muslim and non-Muslim alike ),
A lot of conditions put on and suggestions made for Muslims that don't seem to have been made for the rest of us. Interesting.

And how far does 'originally' go back? You would think people would be happy they are contributing to the place where they live. I would bet if it appeared in the news that Muslims were sending 80% of their money 'back to the where they came from', the same people would be complaining why don't they contribute to the local economy and that they were sucking money out of CH.

If you're scared of Muslims, people, please just say so, rather than come up with a bunch of side shows.
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  #650  
Old 14.10.2009, 15:42
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

While we are quarreling abour permitting Minaret or not, Migros Herdern in West Zurich is making a new entrance to the old building/restaurant which sounds like a replica of KAABA (Mecca's holy mosque) !
Go and see Urself if you don't believe!
  #651  
Old 14.10.2009, 16:29
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

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Did the incident you describe even make it to the local press?
I don't know, to be honest.

Further to your comments, I agree with you that there probably is a double standard in these matters.
  #652  
Old 14.10.2009, 17:25
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

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Would,nt the money be better spent reducing the poverty level and increasing the quality of life of those that remain in the countries where the local community originally come from? (Muslim and non-Muslim alike ),
Wot, you mean places like Canton Jura? Aren't they capable of deciding
for themselves how and where to spend their money?
.
  #653  
Old 14.10.2009, 17:55
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

Perhaps I missed something in this big old thread but can someone please enlighten me as to whether or not Muslims in Switzerland want to build minarets? I mean really want to? Enough for there to be a conflict? Is it one group of Muslims that are insisting on a particular mosque to be built or is there a concerted initiative within the Muslim community to fight for the right to build minarets wherever they build mosques?

I understand that there's an argument based on principle but does the argument go beyond that?
  #654  
Old 14.10.2009, 18:50
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

I am a muslim living in zurich and I can live without having a mosque with a minaret, but I guess this is not what this debate is about!!
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  #655  
Old 14.10.2009, 19:49
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

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Its just a matter of time ... if not now then in 15 years you will definitely start seeing minarets ... the ball has just been set rolling ..

Minarets already are existing now, not just in 15 years, and the one near Olten is very beautiful.
  #656  
Old 14.10.2009, 19:54
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

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Thats what he meant. Its Jakarta's Muslims that are prone to riots.
-
I want however want to make it clear that I don't want to cause offence.
-
Nor do I do want to inflame this issue. I shouldn't have used my mate's experience as an example due to the huge scope to misinterpret my motives for doing so.
-
Two Muslim fanatics did shoot at him though (actually him and his mate).
-
Sad to say.
-
A) It is people in Jakarta and that also includes people of other religions who are prone to rioting, and it is NOT all, most likely not even a majority
B) "offence possibly caused" is not the matter. The matter rather is what you concluded from that incident to you
C) Were the two actually identified as "Muslim fanatics" ? And if so, you might realize that "Muslim fanatics" are as dangerous to the average people as they are to foreigners.
  #657  
Old 14.10.2009, 19:59
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

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And now reverse the situation and imagine an incident with two Swiss men shooting at a muslim. We'd have the newspapers of the world and the UNO security council complaining about racist Switzerland for months and months. We'd have the SVP trying to explain it wasn't them, and we'd have Calmy Rey jetting around the world wearing her headdress and apologising to Muslim leaders. Jean Ziegler would write at least four books about it and the ANTIFA in Zürich would burn dozens of cars.

Did the incident you describe even make it to the local press?
I did not describe that incident. I do not even know whether it ever happened. I simply took HIS "report" at face value. And there were such attacks against Muslims, not in Switzerland but in France and Britain. Yes, the press took the incidents into the reports and made a lot of ado.

Burn cars ? Former Zurich city president Estermann already 10 years said there were too many cars in Zurich !
  #658  
Old 14.10.2009, 21:51
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

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I am a muslim living in zurich and I can live without having a mosque with a minaret, but I guess this is not what this debate is about!!
Oh thank you! Thank you SO much for posting in this thread. That is what I have been asking. Is this something the Muslim people are wanting?... or is this just another "cultural" encitement......?

Today, I found out, discussing this issue with others, that us westerners are getting confused. The wearing of Burkahs and veils of women of Muslim belief is Arabic culture?..... and not all Muslims are Arabic ......

My question, a few pages back here, is WHAT is the reason for the request for Minarettes on Mosques?

Answer that question, and I will refrain from further comments.
  #659  
Old 14.10.2009, 22:09
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

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My question, a few pages back here, is WHAT is the reason for the request for Minarettes on Mosques?

Answer that question, and I will refrain from further comments.
It's part of traditional mosque architecture. No, it's not essential and it doesn't have to have a certain function.

So, why ban them? Why not simply use the normal planning procedures that are in place for every other kind of building?

The referendum is not simply about banning minarets. It's a strategy and it's a message. And that's why it's wrong.
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Old 14.10.2009, 22:10
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

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My question, a few pages back here, is WHAT is the reason for the request for Minarettes on Mosques?

Answer that question, and I will refrain from further comments.
I think the reason the congregation would like a Minaret to grace their Mosque is because it's the icing on the cake for their place of worship. You know like a church steeple or the Star of David.

It would also help distinguish their place of worship from all the other square, faceless buildings in industry areas, or cheaper housing areas where more often or not they gain permission to rent or buy in order to meet and pray.

Last edited by Oldhand; 14.10.2009 at 22:24.
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