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View Poll Results: Should mosques be allowed to have a minarette?
Yes 73 52.90%
No 43 31.16%
I don't care 18 13.04%
What a minarette? 4 2.90%
Voters: 138. You may not vote on this poll

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  #781  
Old 18.10.2009, 22:35
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

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These are still awfull numbers. Even IF only 0.5 percent of muslims want to wage war on the infidels... that makes it a couple of million terrorists.
Right you are in this. Whenever much of this poll resulted from some Muslim youngsters enjoying the "Ahmed the dead terrorist" effect onto the pollster, there of course is a hardcore of dangerous people around. But, as Bundesrat Widmer-Schlumpf said, a ban against minarets does not reduce the number of such people by a single person.

The point is not that terrorism from the side of fundamentalist extremist Muslims does not exist. The point is that there is no connection between the number of minarets and the number of terrorists.
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Old 18.10.2009, 22:37
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

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Right you are in this. Whenever much of this poll resulted from some Muslim youngsters enjoying the "Ahmed the dead terrorist" effect onto the pollster, there of course is a hardcore of dangerous people around. But, as Bundesrat Widmer-Schlumpf said, a ban against minarets does not reduce the number of such people by a single person.

The point is not that terrorism from the side of fundamentalist extremist Muslims does not exist. The point is that there is no connection between the number of minarets and the number of terrorists.
Minarets are religious propaganda/advertising. More minarets = more muslims = more terrorists. Even disregarding terrorism, I would not want to live in a country with an overly large muslim population.
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  #783  
Old 18.10.2009, 22:40
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

Winston C. on islam


How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy.


The effects are apparent in many countries. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live.


A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement; the next of its dignity and sanctity. The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property, either as a child, a wife, or a concubine, must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men.


Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities, but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it.
No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science, the science against which it had vainly struggled, the civilization of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilization of ancient Rome.
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Old 18.10.2009, 22:46
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

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Minarets are religious propaganda/advertising. More minarets = more muslims = more terrorists. Even disregarding terrorism, I would not want to live in a country with an overly large muslim population.
Rubbish. Minarets are not advertising tools. And more minarets does not bring more Muslims to a country. And the other hand, the lack of minarets does not "deter" a single person from moving into a particular country.

You would not like ...... ? The reason for you neither living in Russia nor in Canada ?
  #785  
Old 18.10.2009, 22:52
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

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Winston C. on islam
How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy.
The effects are apparent in many countries. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live.
A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement; the next of its dignity and sanctity. The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property, either as a child, a wife, or a concubine, must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men.
Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities, but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it.
No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science, the science against which it had vainly struggled, the civilization of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilization of ancient Rome.

** "Mohammedanism" does not exist. The religion in question is Islam
** There is not more apathy among Muslims than among anybody else
** Commerce in most Muslim countries always was doing well
** There is no demand in Koranic law that a woman had to belong to anybody in any way. Grace + refinement does not depend on religion
** Christiandom is as militant and as proselytiszing a faith as Islam
** Christianity is not sheltered in the arms of science but Christianity for centures was against science (looks into European history)
  #786  
Old 18.10.2009, 22:57
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

A Populus survey for the Times (Populus interviewed 1,131 Muslim adults aged 18+ by telephone and online), published 4th July 2006, found that


13% of British Muslims think that the four men who carried out the London Tube and bus bombings of July 7, 2005, should be regarded as “martyrs”

7% agree that suicide attacks on civilians in the UK can be justified in some circumstances, rising to 16% for a military target

16% of British Muslims say that while the attacks may have been wrong, the cause was right

2% would be proud if a family member decided to join al-Qaeda. 16% would be “indifferent”

56% of British Muslims believe that the Government is not doing enough to fight extremism, more than the 49% of the whole population who agree

50% think the intelligence services have the right to infiltrate Muslim organisations to gather information about their activities and the way they obtain funding

65% of British Muslims say that their community needs to do more to integrate properly with British society

35% say that they would feel proud if a close family member joined the police



http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...icle682599.ece
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Old 18.10.2009, 22:59
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

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** Christiandom is as militant and as proselytiszing a faith as Islam
It was. It isn't now.
  #788  
Old 18.10.2009, 23:09
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

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** "Mohammedanism" does not exist. The religion in question is Islam
** There is not more apathy among Muslims than among anybody else
** Commerce in most Muslim countries always was doing well
** There is no demand in Koranic law that a woman had to belong to anybody in any way. Grace + refinement does not depend on religion
** Christiandom is as militant and as proselytiszing a faith as Islam
** Christianity is not sheltered in the arms of science but Christianity for centures was against science (looks into European history)
Mohhamed invented allah and had "him" please all his whims. Hence islam is basically veneration of mohhamed.

Muslim countries are poor and backward TODAY let alone 100 years ago. Women are treated no better then property in many muslim countries and you misanderstood what W.C. said, he said that DESPITE being against science, it is what keeps christianity from being overrun by more agressive faiths.
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  #789  
Old 18.10.2009, 23:17
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

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Mohhamed invented allah and had "him" please all his whims. Hence islam is basically veneration of mohhamed.

Muslim countries are poor and backward TODAY let alone 100 years ago. Women are treated no better then property in many muslim countries and you misanderstood what W.C. said, he said that DESPITE being against science, it is what keeps christianity from being overrun by more agressive faiths.
Allah is the name that Muslims give to God.
Same God as the God of the Christians & the Jews.

No invention of Mohammed.

Check your facts.
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Old 19.10.2009, 01:36
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

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Winston C. on islam


How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy.


The effects are apparent in many countries. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live.


A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement; the next of its dignity and sanctity. The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property, either as a child, a wife, or a concubine, must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men.


Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities, but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it.
No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science, the science against which it had vainly struggled, the civilization of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilization of ancient Rome.
Now now . . . we've brought you up on your archaic ideas before . . .

And exactly what does this have to do with minarets in Switzerland?

I don't think it's acceptable to introduce general criticism of Muslims or Islam every couple of posts as part of a discussion on a very specific topic. Mods - can you advise?
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Old 19.10.2009, 01:37
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

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A Populus survey for the Times (Populus interviewed 1,131 Muslim adults aged 18+ by telephone and online), published 4th July 2006, found that


13% of British Muslims think that the four men who carried out the London Tube and bus bombings of July 7, 2005, should be regarded as “martyrs”

7% agree that suicide attacks on civilians in the UK can be justified in some circumstances, rising to 16% for a military target

16% of British Muslims say that while the attacks may have been wrong, the cause was right

2% would be proud if a family member decided to join al-Qaeda. 16% would be “indifferent”

56% of British Muslims believe that the Government is not doing enough to fight extremism, more than the 49% of the whole population who agree

50% think the intelligence services have the right to infiltrate Muslim organisations to gather information about their activities and the way they obtain funding

65% of British Muslims say that their community needs to do more to integrate properly with British society

35% say that they would feel proud if a close family member joined the police



http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...icle682599.ece
Yet another post that is just generally critical of Islam and has no direct bearing on the minarets question.
  #792  
Old 19.10.2009, 01:47
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

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Winston C. on islam


How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy.


The effects are apparent in many countries. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live.


A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement; the next of its dignity and sanctity. The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property, either as a child, a wife, or a concubine, must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men.


Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities, but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it.
No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science, the science against which it had vainly struggled, the civilization of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilization of ancient Rome.
Although Churchill was undoubtedly a great war leader that doesn't mean he didn't hold some fairly dubious notions.

Here's an interesting quote:

Quote:
I do not admit... that a great wrong has been done to the Red Indians of America, or the black people of Australia... by the fact that a stronger race, a higher grade race... has come in and taken its place.
Or this:

Quote:
The unnatural and increasingly rapid growth of the feeble-minded and insane classes, coupled as it is with a steady restriction among all the thrifty, energetic and superior stocks, constitutes a national and race danger which it is impossible to exaggerate... I feel that the source from which the stream of madness is fed should be cut off and sealed up before another year has passed.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/theguardia...features11.g21

It says a lot about the weakness of your argument that you are resorting to quoting from a politician from the first half of the twentieth century.

Yes, admire Churchill's war quotes and his wit, but don't value his colonial attitudes.
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Old 19.10.2009, 07:40
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

We are NOT discussing the UK.
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He seems like a reasonable man.

Could you ask his thoughts on the 32% of Muslim students in the UK who think that killing in the name of religion is justified?
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Old 19.10.2009, 08:49
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

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Mohhamed invented allah and had "him" please all his whims. Hence islam is basically veneration of mohhamed.

Muslim countries are poor and backward TODAY let alone 100 years ago. Women are treated no better then property in many muslim countries and you misanderstood what W.C. said, he said that DESPITE being against science, it is what keeps christianity from being overrun by more agressive faiths.
"Allah" is the Arabic word for God. It is also used on Malta, which is Roman Catholic. And it is also used by some 30 mio. of Arab Christians. And there in the Koran are uncountable references to the Bible and to the point that the God of the Jews and the Christians and the Muslims is ONE God and not a number of different "Gods". And while in Christiandom, Jesus is the Son of God, in Islam, Mohammed is just the major prophet.

Women in many Muslim countries are studying at universities, are business owners, journalists, lawyers, etc .

Muslim countries are not poorer than non-Muslim countries in the relevant area, or even better off. But if better off neither in spite nor thanks to Islam but thanks to REAL conditions.

Back to above, I suggest that you shortly speak about the French believing in their "Dieu" .....
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Old 19.10.2009, 13:03
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

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Allah is the name that Muslims give to God.
Same God as the God of the Christians & the Jews.

No invention of Mohammed.

Check your facts.
Mohhamed claimed that his invention was the same as what the Jews/Christians believed. Allah is a puppet and mohhamed was it's master.
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Old 19.10.2009, 13:05
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

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Although Churchill was undoubtedly a great war leader that doesn't mean he didn't hold some fairly dubious notions.

Here's an interesting quote:



Or this:



http://www.guardian.co.uk/theguardia...features11.g21

It says a lot about the weakness of your argument that you are resorting to quoting from a politician from the first half of the twentieth century.

Yes, admire Churchill's war quotes and his wit, but don't value his colonial attitudes.
Man, I love Winny C. even more now. That guy is a literary .50 cal sniper.
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Old 19.10.2009, 13:07
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

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"Allah" is the Arabic word for God. It is also used on Malta, which is Roman Catholic. And it is also used by some 30 mio. of Arab Christians. And there in the Koran are uncountable references to the Bible and to the point that the God of the Jews and the Christians and the Muslims is ONE God and not a number of different "Gods". And while in Christiandom, Jesus is the Son of God, in Islam, Mohammed is just the major prophet.

Women in many Muslim countries are studying at universities, are business owners, journalists, lawyers, etc .

Muslim countries are not poorer than non-Muslim countries in the relevant area, or even better off. But if better off neither in spite nor thanks to Islam but thanks to REAL conditions.

Back to above, I suggest that you shortly speak about the French believing in their "Dieu" .....
Islamic countries are worse off then secular countries. End of story. If islam is so good... why are islamic countries so rubbish... with the exception of Turkey which is secular. If Turkey is not the best example that islam needs to be thrown into the dustbin of history... I don't know what is.
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Old 19.10.2009, 13:59
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

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It was. It isn't now.
Your post refered to Christianity and it's proselyitising elements; my reply to this is look to Africa. There's a huge fight between the Christian Church and Islam. It's going to direct the future of the continent. So maybe in Europe you've little to worry - except perhaps the pressure of the Christian Right, as mentioned earlier (and I'm still interested to read your comments on that question) but don't think there's not a crusade occuring on that Lost Continent.

Last edited by Uncle Max; 19.10.2009 at 14:05. Reason: typo
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Old 19.10.2009, 14:18
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

Guys, please keep this to Minarets and their place in Switzerland.

Those who stray too far off risk posts being deleted and possible forum vacations.
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Old 19.10.2009, 14:25
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

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Guys, please keep this to Minarets and their place in Switzerland.

Those who stray too far off risk posts being deleted and possible forum vacations.
If someone strays off topic but you feel their point needs addressing, are you best to ignore it or are you ok to answer it?
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