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View Poll Results: Should mosques be allowed to have a minarette?
Yes 73 52.90%
No 43 31.16%
I don't care 18 13.04%
What a minarette? 4 2.90%
Voters: 138. You may not vote on this poll

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  #821  
Old 19.10.2009, 17:36
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

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Too new to know anything about SVP. Sorry. You might explain.
Well, they're the ones backing the current campaign.

You know, the ones who want to ban minarets (which are currently allowed) in the first place.
  #822  
Old 19.10.2009, 17:36
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

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Just to play Devil's Advocate for a moment (remember that before you hit the groan button).
Assume, for the moment, you say "Ok, you can have your minaret".
The year after that, the campaign starts to keep girls from going on school field trips with male escorts or that girls don't have to go to school until they are 18.
The year after that, the campaign starts to have special Muslim-only schools.
Next year, the campaign starts to have Muslim-only hospitals.
What if things like this are simply a slow, stealthy means (rather than war) of corroding infidel states from within?
At what point do you defend your 'western' traditions?
At the point where harm is occurring. The building of a minaret does not restrict my freedom, nor harm me in any other way. In this case, why should I restrict someone else's freedom?
  #823  
Old 19.10.2009, 17:37
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

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At the point where harm is occurring. The building of a minaret does not restrict my freedom, nor harm me in any other way. In this case, why should I restrict someone else's freedom?
For one they clash with local architecture.
  #824  
Old 19.10.2009, 17:38
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

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For one they clash with local architecture.
Isn't that for the planning commission - with appropriate input from the community - to determine? (i.e. status quo)

Why do we need a ban instead?
  #825  
Old 19.10.2009, 17:41
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

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At the point where harm is occurring. The building of a minaret does not restrict my freedom, nor harm me in any other way. In this case, why should I restrict someone else's freedom?
Ok, what is 'harm'? I recall in Australia where the local Muslims wanted 'women's only' days at certain public venues that never had that restriction and no one else was asking for it. Kind of hard to define 'harm' in that situation. Are they taking advantage of western 'tolerance' for 'multiculturalism'? Or, are they simply exercising my father's philosophy of 'You don't ask, you don't get."??
  #826  
Old 19.10.2009, 17:42
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

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For one they clash with local architecture.
So you have a purely aesthetic objection? What's all that crap about Nobel prizes and the bankruptcy of Islam then? Jeesh!

I think the aesthetic arguments have already been dredged over several times further upthread.

I am glad to hear you are a sensitive type though who can be harmed by the appearance of a building though.
  #827  
Old 19.10.2009, 17:44
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

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Ok, what is 'harm'? I recall in Australia where the local Muslims wanted 'women's only' days at certain public venues that never had that restriction and no one else was asking for it. Kind of hard to define 'harm' in that situation. Are they taking advantage of western 'tolerance' for 'multiculturalism'? Or, are they simply exercising my father's philosophy of 'You don't ask, you don't get."??
Are we still talking about minarets? One thing I'm absolutely certain about is that they do no harm to anyone.

We're back to the slippery slope arguments which are the basis of much scaremongering.
  #828  
Old 19.10.2009, 17:48
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

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So there are non-religious, economic and social reasons that might affect Nobel performance. Well I never . . .
Islamic world has A LOT of universities... unfortunately they tend to memorize some Bronza Age book verses rather then formulae.
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  #829  
Old 19.10.2009, 17:51
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

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Are we still talking about minarets? One thing I'm absolutely certain about is that they do no harm to anyone.

We're back to the slippery slope arguments which are the basis of much scaremongering.
True, but I'm interested in where people draw the proverbial line in the sand. Some people seem to be willing to allow anything, some nothing (usually, without a lot of thought on either end).
  #830  
Old 19.10.2009, 17:54
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

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True, but I'm interested in where people draw the proverbial line in the sand. Some people seem to be willing to allow anything, some nothing (usually, without a lot of thought on either end).
I think your looking at it the wrong way, what we have here is the situation where one party wants to stop another party doing something they can already do, the slippery slope is there, it's just going the other way to what you're implying.
  #831  
Old 19.10.2009, 18:04
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

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I think your looking at it the wrong way, what we have here is the situation where one party wants to stop another party doing something they can already do, the slippery slope is there, it's just going the other way to what you're implying.
Maybe, I haven't read the whole thread and I'm not trying to prevent anyone from building anything. Personally, I have no problem with people building minarets and am rather agnostic about the whole religion issue. I've ceratainly seen minarets in the US (along with any number of hideous looking buildings from various faiths).
  #832  
Old 19.10.2009, 18:21
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

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Islamic world has A LOT of universities... unfortunately they tend to memorize some Bronza Age book verses rather then formulae.
As I expected, you missed his not so subtle pointing out of the hole in your original statement. You're so bad you contradict yourself only two posts later.

To your current point, as always, you just made this up. One of the best undergrad EE schools in the world is in Tehran. Cairo also produces many good engineering students. And so on. The top students from these schools end up in top US schools for their PhDs.

And quite bold of you in the first place to make such a comment, as someone who lives off Daddy's money and couldn't bother to memories even the formulas.
  #833  
Old 19.10.2009, 18:28
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

Was just on google satalite view looking at dt Toronto.

My cousin almost choked laughing---he said the CN Tower looks exactly like a Minaret from the top view.

Kinda amusing
  #834  
Old 19.10.2009, 18:37
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

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Maybe, I haven't read the whole thread and I'm not trying to prevent anyone from building anything. Personally, I have no problem with people building minarets and am rather agnostic about the whole religion issue. I've ceratainly seen minarets in the US (along with any number of hideous looking buildings from various faiths).
Please read the whole thread

Cultural supremacy is as invidious as racial supremacy.

I'm still waiting to hear why I need worry about the effect of a minaret on Swiss society when the Far Christian Right has a greater voice in this country, but still I imagine I'll wait, as those opposing minarets don't have a leg to stand on and can't muster a decent excuse for their bigotry.
  #835  
Old 19.10.2009, 18:42
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

The population of Muslims in the country has grown from 56,000 in 1980 to over 400,000 today, but up until now they have largely practiced their religion discretely in backyard mosques.

The second and third generation of immigrants from Turkey, Bosnia or Albania are now firmly establishing themselves in Switzerland. This is causing increased tensions within large swaths of Swiss society.

A recent survey in the Tages-Anzeiger newspaper found that 51 percent of voters opposed the anti-minaret initiative, with 35 percent supporting it. "Many undecided voters could switch to the 'yes' camp," the newspaper concluded.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/...654963,00.html
  #836  
Old 19.10.2009, 18:51
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

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The population of Muslims in the country has grown from 56,000 in 1980 to over 400,000 today, but up until now they have largely practiced their religion discretely in backyard mosques.

The second and third generation of immigrants from Turkey, Bosnia or Albania are now firmly establishing themselves in Switzerland. This is causing increased tensions within large swaths of Swiss society.
The world has changed quite a bit in 30 years, not just here.

I am honestly curious: I have only been here for 2 years; what are the major tensions you mention?
  #837  
Old 19.10.2009, 18:55
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

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...The second and third generation of immigrants from Turkey, Bosnia or Albania are now firmly establishing themselves in Switzerland...
You write it as if you're discussing a virus, not people.
  #838  
Old 19.10.2009, 19:00
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

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The population of Muslims in the country has grown from 56,000 in 1980 to over 400,000 today, but up until now they have largely practiced their religion discretely in backyard mosques.
Oh yes, good for them! So discreet. Why can't they just keep on doing it like that, eh? Keep 'em closeted, keep 'em quiet.

I feel sick.
  #839  
Old 19.10.2009, 19:05
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

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Most scientific achievement in SU was a heavily guarded secret.
And clearly remains so.


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The second and third generation of immigrants from Turkey, Bosnia or Albania are now firmly establishing themselves in Switzerland.
Or Swiss citizens, as they are often known.
.
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  #840  
Old 19.10.2009, 19:08
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

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I am honestly curious: I have only been here for 2 years; what are the major tensions you mention?
I was just quoting the article. That sentence was in the middle of paragraph I quoted.
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