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View Poll Results: Should mosques be allowed to have a minarette?
Yes 73 52.90%
No 43 31.16%
I don't care 18 13.04%
What a minarette? 4 2.90%
Voters: 138. You may not vote on this poll

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  #841  
Old 19.10.2009, 19:15
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

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You write it as if you're discussing a virus, not people.

Uhh?

I lifted the paragraph from Spiegel.

I think your reaction and lashing out is a bit over the top.


You appear to endlessly see racism and bigotry every where you look.

Are you sure it isn't you who has the problem?




  #842  
Old 19.10.2009, 19:23
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Oh yes, good for them! So discreet. Why can't they just keep on doing it like that, eh? Keep 'em closeted, keep 'em quiet.

I feel sick.
What is it with you guys? I find a newspaper article from Spiegel giving some figures and half the board throw their dummy out of their pram.

Give it a break.







  #843  
Old 19.10.2009, 19:23
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

@gpzrd350 - Yeah, I do have a problem with bigotry, it's pretty revolting. Usually, though, bigots don't notice it. I also have a problem with answer dodging. So, how about you answer a question for once? I've asked it about four times now:

Why do you focus on a tiny demographic minority when there's greater political and social weight amongst the Far Right? And this time, I don't mean Far Christian Right, I mean the Far Right? You appear familiar with European politics so the question won't be far from your mind. Being someone I assume is reasonable and open, the Far Right must surely be more of a threat to our lifestyles?

You seem to put a lot of emphasis on people with a very small voice, plus you want to ban something which currently has a functioning place in this society.

Why the infringement of liberty? Drunk drivers are more of a liability, yet you enjoy picking on the Muslims. What's the motivation?
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  #844  
Old 19.10.2009, 19:26
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

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The population of Muslims in the country has grown from 56,000 in 1980 to over 400,000 today, but up until now they have largely practiced their religion discretely in backyard mosques.

The second and third generation of immigrants from Turkey, Bosnia or Albania are now firmly establishing themselves in Switzerland. This is causing increased tensions within large swaths of Swiss society.

A recent survey in the Tages-Anzeiger newspaper found that 51 percent of voters opposed the anti-minaret initiative, with 35 percent supporting it. "Many undecided voters could switch to the 'yes' camp," the newspaper concluded.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/...654963,00.html
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I was just quoting the article. That sentence was in the middle of paragraph I quoted.
It's appropriate to use quotation marks, otherwise you're implying the words are your own
  #845  
Old 19.10.2009, 19:28
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

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The population of Muslims in the country has grown from 56,000 in 1980 to over 400,000 today,
Woah, at that rate of population growth soon there'll be more Muslims than there are . . . PEOPLE IN THE WORLD! Try to stop the building of a minaret then!!!!!!!

Twit.
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  #846  
Old 19.10.2009, 19:32
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

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Why do you focus on a tiny demographic minority when there's greater political and social weight amongst the Far Right? And this time, I don't mean Far Christian Right, I mean the Far Right? You appear familiar with European politics so the question won't be far from your mind. Being someone I assume is reasonable and open, the Far Right must surely be more of a threat to our lifestyles?
To be honest, I think people with radical left wing views, are as dangerous to my lifestyle as radical Muslims and radical right wingers.

I don't like people telling me how to think, no matter which extreme of the political spectrum they are coming from.



You seem to be gravitating from the extreme 'thought police' left. No offence.
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  #847  
Old 19.10.2009, 19:33
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

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To be honest, I think people with radical left wing views, are as dangerous to my lifestyle as radical Muslims and radical right wingers.

I don't like people telling me how to think, no matter which extreme of the political spectrum they are coming from.



You seem to be gravitating from the extreme 'thought police' left. No offence.
No one's telling you what to think.

They're trying to stop people telling other people what they can't do.
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  #848  
Old 19.10.2009, 19:35
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Woah, at that rate of population growth soon there'll be more Muslims than there are . . . PEOPLE IN THE WORLD! Try to stop the building of a minaret then!!!!!!!

Twit.
Strange that you find a statement of fact on Muslim Swiss demographics so offensive.

Do you always engage in personal abuse when a demographic fact offends you?

Very strange.

Very strange indeed.
  #849  
Old 19.10.2009, 19:41
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

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To be honest, I think people with radical left wing views, are as dangerous to my lifestyle as radical Muslims and radical right wingers.

I don't like people telling me how to think, no matter which extreme of the political spectrum they are coming from.


You seem to be gravitating from the extreme 'thought police' left. No offence.
No offence taken. It's easy to sit in front of a monitor and pontificate, but I've also stood up as a witness against oppression in various middle eastern countries, where the offence is felt when the rubber bullets fly.

And it's nothing to do with one's political views. I see this whole theme a topic of fear and intolerance, and I expect better from educated, morally robust people. If they want to drag themselves below the level of those they despise, who's the one we should fear?

If I'm over zealous in crying 'Foul', you can be sure I'm on your side. I'm still curious for an answer, though.
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  #850  
Old 19.10.2009, 19:46
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

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So, how about you answer a question for once? I've asked it about four times now:

Why the infringement of liberty? Drunk drivers are more of a liability, yet you enjoy picking on the Muslims. What's the motivation?
I don't remember you asking me that 4 times. I don't remember you asking me it once.

Anyway, my problem is that I suspect that Swiss Muslims, within their number, have members who are zealous in their pursuit of enforcing Islam on everyone else.


If 5% of them are as zealous as you are at trying to impose your views on me then I have a great deal to worry about.

I post an article quoted from Spegiel giving demographic facts about Swiss Muslim population growth and the likely result of the Swiss poll and the politically correct squad go into a feeding frenzy.

What is it with you blokes?

You are all a bit over the top, me thinks.

Last edited by gpzrd350; 19.10.2009 at 20:14.
  #851  
Old 19.10.2009, 19:50
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

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Strange that you find a statement of fact on Muslim Swiss demographics so offensive.

Do you always engage in personal abuse when a demographic fact offends you?

Very strange.

Very strange indeed.
I don't find facts offensive. I find their use out of context and to provide a supposedly alarming message worrying. Spiegel, and yourself, are attempting to provoke alarm by implying something about the future growth of the Muslim population. I was trying to illustrate the absurdity of such a projection.

All you do on this forum is continually come out with anti-Muslim statements which when subjected to the slightest investigation seem to crumble. So for this persistent behaviour, I'm quite happy with using the rather mild term, 'twit'.
  #852  
Old 19.10.2009, 19:57
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I don't find facts offensive. I find their use out of context and to provide a supposedly alarming message worrying. Spiegel, and yourself, are attempting to provoke alarm by implying something about the future growth of the Muslim population. I was trying to illustrate the absurdity of such a projection.
No one projected anything mate. Only your imagination did.

You aren't only the 'thought police'. You fancy yourself as the 'fact police' as well.

Your kind would get on well in the information bureau in North Korea.




  #853  
Old 19.10.2009, 20:00
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

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I don't remember you asking me that 4 times. I don't remember you asking me it once.

Anyway, my problem is that I suspect that Swiss Muslims, within their number, have members who are zealous in the pursuit of enforcing Islam on everyone else.

If 5% of them are as zealous as you are at trying to impose your views on me then I have a great deal to worry about.

I post an article giving demographic facts and the likely result of the poll and the politically correct squad go into a feeding frenzy.

What is it with you blokes?

You are all a bit over the top, me thinks.
Being over the top on matters of civil liberty? My grandparents would have something to say on that issue; half of them didn't return from the icy North Atlantic thanks to you know what.

You talk of imposing! Pre-emptively banning minarets for fear of a small percentage within a religious minority smacks of oppression.

What else should be banned? Abortion? Homosexuality? and on and on...

Nobody's telling you how to think. As GastroGnome states, we're worried about others denying people the liberty to do something which is already permitted. It's not a fun thread.


BUT: we can all keep it civil, please (Wearing Mod Hat)
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  #854  
Old 19.10.2009, 20:04
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

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All you do on this forum is continually come out with anti-Muslim statements which when subjected to the slightest investigation seem to crumble. So for this persistent behaviour, I'm quite happy with using the rather mild term, 'twit'.
Care to give me some examples?

Thought not.

Not only are you the 'fact police' (as in seeking to restrict the expression of facts), in the best tradition of your kind, you are now making the facts up.

Never mind mate. Just stick to your name calling. If you can't win an argument, just make things up and call people names.

Works for you.
  #855  
Old 19.10.2009, 20:10
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

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Nobody's telling you how to think. As GastroGnome states, we're worried about others denying people the liberty to do something which is already permitted. It's not a fun thread.

(Wearing Mod Hat)
No it isn't a fun thread. Any chance if you could get people to stop calling other people names and going over the top?

Anyway, I would deny rights to a group of people who have members inside the group who are likely to dominate that group and thence (is that a real word?) deny me my rights.

A bit of a pre-emptive, preventative move if you like.
  #856  
Old 19.10.2009, 20:11
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

Plenty of facts to prove the Muslims in Switzerland get the shtty end of the stick in almost all political debates, yet the Far Right is growing at a worrying level.


---

And let's keep cooler heads, please.

---
  #857  
Old 19.10.2009, 20:14
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

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No it isn't a fun thread. Any chance if you could get people to stop calling other people names and going over the top?

Anyway, I would deny rights to a group of people who have members inside the group who are likely to dominate that group and thence (is a real word?) deny me my rights.

A bit of a pre-emptive, preventative move if you like.
Thank you for your clarity. I disagree with your method of controlling a small group by punishing, ostricising and restricting the rights of the whole group and now I'm ready for a beer.

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Everyone will be nice to each other, right everyone
  #858  
Old 19.10.2009, 20:14
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

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Islamic countries are worse off then secular countries. End of story. If islam is so good... why are islamic countries so rubbish... with the exception of Turkey which is secular. If Turkey is not the best example that islam needs to be thrown into the dustbin of history... I don't know what is.
"Islamic countries" ? In case you mean Muslim countries, most Muslim countries are secular, only a minority like Sudan, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Afghanistan are "islamist".
  #859  
Old 19.10.2009, 20:19
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

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Just to play Devil's Advocate for a moment (remember that before you hit the groan button).
Assume, for the moment, you say "Ok, you can have your minaret".
The year after that, the campaign starts to keep girls from going on school field trips with male escorts or that girls don't have to go to school until they are 18.
The year after that, the campaign starts to have special Muslim-only schools.
Next year, the campaign starts to have Muslim-only hospitals.
What if things like this are simply a slow, stealthy means (rather than war) of corroding infidel states from within?
At what point do you defend your 'western' traditions?
Sorry, to build minarets is allowed up to now. The initiative is not about whether it should be allowed but about prohibiting it. There is no campaign to have minarets, there is a campaign to have the building of new ones prohibited. So that to speak as if there were campaigns for this and that is rubbish. You turn things upside down.
  #860  
Old 19.10.2009, 20:26
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Thank you for your clarity. I disagree with your method of controlling a small group by punishing, ostricising and restricting the rights of the whole group and now I'm ready for a beer.

Everyone will be nice to each other, right everyone
A beer seems like a good idea.

Before I wrap this up for the night, I would like to point out that it is in fact the extremists who usually end up dominating groups not subject to democracy.

Like this group.
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