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View Poll Results: Should mosques be allowed to have a minarette?
Yes 73 52.90%
No 43 31.16%
I don't care 18 13.04%
What a minarette? 4 2.90%
Voters: 138. You may not vote on this poll

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  #881  
Old 19.10.2009, 21:20
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

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My argument has always been (if you go far enough back) that Muslims do a very poor job of moderating their own extemists.

If they could control their own extremists, then fine. But if they don't then why should their extremists be my problem?

You know, like in the UK. Uk Muslims blowing up buses and trains.
Your arguments have taken a nasty turn.

On that note, I'm out of this correspondence.
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Old 19.10.2009, 21:20
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

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My argument has always been (if you go far enough back) that Muslims do a very poor job of moderating their own extemists.
Why should they? I wasn't very happy about my government bombing the crap out of Belgrade, but I was too busy worrying about what time the pub opened to do anything about it.

Why should Muslims be any different from the rest of us? Why should a Bosniak working 45 hours per week in Zurich spend his meagre spare time protesting against the odious opinions of a bunch of nutters in Helmand?

How many Christians do you see out on the streets protesting against Fred Phelps? How many Englishmen do you see out on the streets protesting against the BNP?

Most people, quite honestly, just don't give enough of a **** to stand up to anything.

Why do you expect Muslims to be any different from the rest of us lazy buggers?
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  #883  
Old 19.10.2009, 21:22
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

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My argument has always been (if you go far enough back) that Muslims do a very poor job of moderating their own extemists.

If they could control their own extremists, then fine. But if they don't then why should their extremists be my problem?

You know, like in the UK. Uk Muslims blowing up buses and trains.
All extremists are everyone's problem.

I was in London on 7/7 and saw the ambulances race into the Royal London. I lived on Hackney Road and frequently took the No. 26 Bus.

This has nothing to do with minarets in Switzerland though.
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  #884  
Old 19.10.2009, 21:23
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

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Islamic world has A LOT of universities... unfortunately they tend to memorize some Bronza Age book verses rather then formulae.
Most universities in Muslim countries are secular and not religious. They tend to teach modern science. They however have to concentrate on educating as many people as possible and cannot embark onto costly prestige projects. Those "scientific achievements" are not free-of-charge, but cost a lot of money. It is a matter of priorities. One problem, quite many of these universities however have is that top men of them emigrate to rich countries with rich universities, and if they succeed there, it is "booked" as a success of the guest-country.
  #885  
Old 19.10.2009, 21:26
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

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Ok, what is 'harm'? I recall in Australia where the local Muslims wanted 'women's only' days at certain public venues that never had that restriction and no one else was asking for it. Kind of hard to define 'harm' in that situation. Are they taking advantage of western 'tolerance' for 'multiculturalism'? Or, are they simply exercising my father's philosophy of 'You don't ask, you don't get."??
You again turn things upside down. The topic is not "local Muslims" demanding something, the topic is some radicals wanting to prohibit the building of minarets, and by their dis-information even having a chance to win through.

If they win what next ? There are a lot of things they can try to get prohibited . The SVPlers and consorts if successful may want for more restrictions upon any people not to their liking.
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Old 19.10.2009, 21:29
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

This post is so true, I think it needs repeating. With lots of big, bold letters, for the hard of thinking:

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You again turn things upside down. The topic is not "local Muslims" demanding something, the topic is some radicals wanting to prohibit the building of minarets, and by their dis-information even having a chance to win through.

If they win what next ? There are a lot of things they can try to get prohibited . The SVPlers and consorts if successful may want for more restrictions upon any people not to their liking.
Yes, GPLZDRV, that could be you.
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Old 19.10.2009, 21:43
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

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The population of Muslims in the country has grown from 56,000 in 1980 to over 400,000 today, but up until now they have largely practiced their religion discretely in backyard mosques.

The second and third generation of immigrants from Turkey, Bosnia or Albania are now firmly establishing themselves in Switzerland. This is causing increased tensions within large swaths of Swiss society.

A recent survey in the Tages-Anzeiger newspaper found that 51 percent of voters opposed the anti-minaret initiative, with 35 percent supporting it. "Many undecided voters could switch to the 'yes' camp," the newspaper concluded.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/...654963,00.html
<> Do you think that a ban of minarets will keep Muslim parents off from giving birth ?
<> The tensions, for instance in regard to Bosnians and Kosovaris, are the same as with Serbs, Croatians and Macedonians. They all, in the view of many "native" Swiss are "Yugos", regardless of religion.
<> As you know, there was a big wave of immigrants from mainly Muslim Kosovo after 1990, which is to be taken into account
<> Further on, the number given for 1980 is wrong, I don't know why, but wrong it is. Most presumably because many Muslims then simply held back this aspect in fear of restrictions.
<> The opposing side now is gradually acting in order to counter the massive SVP propaganda, so that the NO should be above 50% on voting day
<> Back to the number of Muslims. The "Muslims" are NOT an ethnic group. Lebanese (40% Christians) for instance however are, just as Egyptians (15% Christians). Arabs and Turks and Albanians/Bosnians are completely different. Prof Dr Amin, a leading personality among Egyptians in Switzerland (owner of Amin Travel) tried in vain to arrange combined travels to Mekka. The various ethics travel divided on different airlines.
<> You speak about "backyard mosques". This is a matter of finance. Housing in Switzerland is expensive. And while not all the people in question are poor, they are not so heavily religious to give their mosque top priority.
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Old 19.10.2009, 21:44
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

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This post is so true, I think it needs repeating. With lots of big, bold letters, for the hard of thinking:

Yes, GPLZDRV, that could be you.

Which is the biggest danger?

Muslim extremists or the SVP?

Maybe I don't like either. Do I have to choose? How about if I agree with a particular SVP policy but not another? Does that mean that the SVP will take over Switzerland? Do you think that the SVP will persuade Switzerland to leave the EU? Until then, can I rely on the EU watching my and my family's back?

Last edited by gpzrd350; 20.10.2009 at 01:22.
  #889  
Old 19.10.2009, 21:48
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

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Which is the biggest danger?

Muslim extremists or the SVP?
In Switzerland, in 2009: The SVP.

They are a real bunch of nutters with a real slice of power.

Your future Bosnian terrorists are nothing but a figment of a fevered and not-very-well-informed socialist imagination.
  #890  
Old 19.10.2009, 21:51
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

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All extremists are everyone's problem.

I was in London on 7/7 and saw the ambulances race into the Royal London. I lived on Hackney Road and frequently took the No. 26 Bus.

This has nothing to do with minarets in Switzerland though.
Perhaps but this man's opinion is relevant even though he isn't Swiss

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/2270642.stm

Recep Tayyip Erdogan, leader of the Justice and Development Party (Adalet ve Kalkinma Partisi, or AK) is one of Turkey's most popular politicians.

But his pro-Islamist sympathies earned him a conviction in 1998 for inciting religious hatred.

He had publicly read an Islamic poem including the lines: "The mosques are our barracks, the domes our helmets, the minarets our bayonets and the faithful our soldiers..."

He was sentenced to 10 months in jail, but was freed after four.

However, because of his criminal record, he was barred from standing in elections or holding political office.

Parliament last year changed the constitution to allow Mr Erdogan to stand for a parliamentary seat.
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Old 19.10.2009, 21:53
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

He was sent to prison for reciting a poem?!

Oh yes... by the Kemalists.... Turkey's own delightful secular extremists.

You really ought to get to know your subject, Gzpfflpp. You're just making a tit of yourself now...
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Old 19.10.2009, 21:54
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

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Your future Bosnian terrorists are nothing but a figment of a fevered and not-very-well-informed socialist imagination.
Now, now. Just because you feel frustrated that I don't agree with your perspective, there is no need to get cheeky.
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Old 19.10.2009, 21:55
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

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You're just making a tit of yourself now...
Or abusive.
  #894  
Old 19.10.2009, 21:58
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Or abusive.
You call that abuse?

Typical wet leftie pinko git. Whining at the slightest provocation.

You'll be asking to get me banned next...
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Old 19.10.2009, 22:00
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

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He was sent to prison for reciting a poem?!

Oh yes... by the Kemalists.... Turkey's own delightful secular extremists.

You really ought to get to know your subject, Gzpfflpp. You're just making a tit of yourself now...
I think seeing what islam does to a country... to a people, will turn one into a secular extremist.

Example of actions of a secular terrorist. Pro women rights hate speech. Pro-democracy terror raids. Human rights sleeper cells...
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Old 19.10.2009, 22:03
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

Minarets... instead of forcing the new arrivals to realize that they have to adapt to our culture and value system will encourage them to live a parallel lifestyle, will teach them that they can just whine and bend western society to their desires.
  #897  
Old 19.10.2009, 22:03
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

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I hope the polically correct cobal don't feel the need to jump on me for this post.


Where do Swiss Muslims come from?

In 2000, Switzerland had 310,807 Muslims.

24.7 % were born in Switzerland.
14 % were born in Turkey
42,8 % are from the former Yugoslavia
4.8 % from North Africa

http://www.bfs.admin.ch/bfs/portal/de/index/themen/01/22/publ.Document.50514.pdf

While the Federal Statistic Office has not undertaken a survey of Muslims in Switzerland since 2000, some municipalities have measured their own populations. According to an April 2009 article from the Swiss-French newspaper 24 Heures, the Muslim population in the city of Montreux rose from 4.6 percent of the population in 2000 to 6.0 percent by 2008.

http://www.migrationinformation.org/...lay.cfm?ID=731
the numbers of course are basically correct, it however would be interesting to hear the background of the Swiss Citizens mentioned. I don't have these numbers but nevertheless can tell you that if that number is "distributed" the % share of Turks and Arabs (NorthAfrica+Mashreek combined) will both heavily increase, meaning almost 20% Arabs and 20% Turks and some 45% Balkanese. Plus 15% "others" .
  #898  
Old 19.10.2009, 22:05
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

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Strange that you find a statement of fact on Muslim Swiss demographics so offensive.

Do you always engage in personal abuse when a demographic fact offends you?

Very strange.

Very strange indeed.
Very strange, and offensive in a way, is your conclusion about interaction between Minarets and sex
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Old 19.10.2009, 22:07
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Example of actions of a secular terrorist.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omagh_bombing

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Pro women rights hate speech.
http://www.womynkind.org/scum.htm


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Pro-democracy terror raids.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_War


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Human rights sleeper cells...
http://www.yesicanusechopsticks.com/capsule/
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Old 19.10.2009, 22:10
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Re: Mosques with or without Minaret?

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Minarets... instead of forcing the new arrivals to realize that they have to adapt to our culture and value system will encourage them to live a parallel lifestyle, will teach them that they can just whine and bend western society to their desires.
I feel that if they integrate, then no problem.

If they however self segregate themselves culturally and geographically and demand that Switzerland changes to suit them, well that would be colonisation surely?


Let's just hope that they don't go down the same road as British Muslims.


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