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View Poll Results: Should mosques be allowed to have a minarette?
Yes 73 52.90%
No 43 31.16%
I don't care 18 13.04%
What a minarette? 4 2.90%
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  #121  
Old 11.07.2007, 16:44
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Re: Mosques with or without Minarette?

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I really hate it when people say "we all have the same god." no we dont. Christians have seen their god, if you believe in the holy trinity jesus appeared on earth. while jews and muslims have never seen their god(s). i think there is a big fundamental difference there!

No i dont think all religions teach the same peaceful beliefs. Some are flawed, some are taken out of context, and some differ greatly from the next. Anyone that has done religious studies or read these books would have seen that. Trying write off cultural and religious differences, so you feel a little safer about the unknown and different people, is really ignorant and insulting to the 1000s of years of history...
its time to grow-up, its not elementary school anymore, we can be different and not believe in the same things - and still be friends.
bloody hell Javo ... you are a miracle worker !!! Never thought I would thank you for a post ....
seriously though, top post ....

now, minarettes ... yes or no ????
  #122  
Old 13.07.2007, 16:22
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Re: Mosques with or without Minarette?

Check this out...It is in French.
Apparently Federal court have reject the complains against building a minaret in Olten area. The future tower will be six meter long with only one symbol.
http://www.edicom.ch/fr/news/suisse/1189_4032633.html
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  #123  
Old 15.07.2007, 17:47
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Re: Mosques with or without Minarette?

Who Cares.... its not the outside of the Mosque that counts its what they teach inside that should be a concern...
  #124  
Old 18.07.2007, 14:12
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Re: Mosques with or without Minarette?

Very interesting views from all angles ..
One question ..
What would happen if the Muslim population of any European country increases so much that democracy is hijacked to pass shariah ( islamic ) law?
Will the Liberals allow this such that European culture is eroded?

In a recent poll in the UK 40% of Muslims would want shariah law.
How much do you allow non-natives to change your country?
I derive from India ( as a child ) but I would not want indian values/culture to override the UK.

The answers lie in the long term affects ..
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  #125  
Old 18.07.2007, 15:05
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Re: Mosques with or without Minarette?

I think we can scale this problem up a bit:
http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/ScrapMegaMosque/#detail
A bit Daily Mail, but is that worship or showing off?

From an aesthetic point of view, the mosque in question looks (as has been mentioned before) like a concrete box. They should pull it down and build something that's actually nice to look at (along with all ugly concrete buildings). No problem with a minarette, jut the general ugliness of the building. I think that puting a minarette on that would be like polishing a turd.
Nothing whatsoever to do with religion, just a dislike of concrete boxes.
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  #126  
Old 18.07.2007, 15:26
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Re: Mosques with or without Minarette?

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What would happen if the Muslim population of any European country increases so much that democracy is hijacked to pass shariah ( islamic ) law?
Will the Liberals allow this such that European culture is eroded?

In a recent poll in the UK 40% of Muslims would want shariah law.
How much do you allow non-natives to change your country?
I derive from India ( as a child ) but I would not want indian values/culture to override the UK.

The answers lie in the long term affects ..
I have seen a similar ad in one of the local news paper where they showed concern about increasing muslim population in Switzerland. I think it was a political ad from SVP.
As you are originally from India, did you noticed that Indians are the largest group of ethinic minority in UK. What if...
http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=273

Just for me knowledge how many muslim countries have shariah law?
  #127  
Old 18.07.2007, 15:51
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Re: Mosques with or without Minarette?

As for my post .. it may be easy to ignore it now .. but with muslim populations increasing what will happen..

I show concern because Islam was forced upon India centuries ago and they were definitely fundamentalists.

Yes 1.8% of the UK population is Indian .. but I do not see any non-muslim Indians requesting hindu/sikh or bhuddist laws to override the British Justice system.
Having said that .. the hindus did save a holy cow from slaughter in Wales even though it has mad cows disease... allegedly... I wonder why the judge overturned the decision?

I think all muslim (islamic ) countries justice is based upon shariah law.
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  #128  
Old 18.07.2007, 15:52
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Re: Mosques with or without Minarette?

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Just for me knowledge how many muslim countries have shariah law?
Just googled and found this site. Google is really your friend. Just Skip the survey and go to content.

http://www.cfr.org/publication/8034/#1
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  #129  
Old 18.07.2007, 15:57
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Re: Mosques with or without Minarette?

As side reading for people interested in this thread, the Hagia Sophia in Istanbul has a very interesting history. Can we think it's such a coincidence that the Christian church was built with the altar so close to where the Mihrab would have to be?
  #130  
Old 18.07.2007, 16:33
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Re: Mosques with or without Minarette?

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Just for me knowledge how many muslim countries have shariah law?
Depends on how complete the enforcement is. Saudi Arabia says that it enforces the most complete form of Sharia. Then there are democratic secular countries like India whose constitution dictates uniform civil code for all it's citizens but they have not been able to implement it for last 50+ years due to opposition from the minority Muslim community.

I would say almost all Islamic countries enforce some form of Sharia law as Sharia is code of law based or derived from the Koran. Now whether it is officially stated or not is irrelevant to a non-muslim or homosexual or muslim apostate or rape victim living there.

Malaysia is supposedly the beacon of moderate Islam but you can read some articles to get a rough idea how "truly Asia" it is!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/6278568.stm
http://www.asianews.it/view.php?l=en&art=4986
http://www.asianews.it/index.php?l=en&art=9431
  #131  
Old 18.07.2007, 16:44
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Re: Mosques with or without Minarette?

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As side reading for people interested in this thread, the Hagia Sophia in Istanbul has a very interesting history. Can we think it's such a coincidence that the Christian church was built with the altar so close to where the Mihrab would have to be?
Maybe I am missing the point but could you clarify your point please? This is the version i am aware of-

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/...,5108432.story

Built in the 6th century, Hagia Sophia Greek for "Holy Wisdom" was Christendom's greatest and most celebrated church. After parrying centuries of jihadi thrusts from Arabs, Constantinople now Istanbul was finally sacked by Turks in 1453, and Hagia Sophia's crosses were desecrated, its icons defaced. Along with thousands of other churches in the Byzantine Empire, it was immediately converted into a mosque, the tall minarets of Islam surrounding it in triumph. Nearly 500 years later, in 1935, as part of reformer Kemal Ataturk's drive to modernize Turkey, Hagia Sophia was secularized and transformed into a museum.
  #132  
Old 18.07.2007, 16:49
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Re: Mosques with or without Minarette?

If you've been there, you'd see that the basic layout of the Christian church was practically perfect for conversion into a mosque as the layout for worship was within a couple of degrees of the direction of Mecca.

Plus the fact that it has changed denomination more than once, if I remember correctly.
  #133  
Old 18.07.2007, 17:11
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Re: Mosques with or without Minarette?

I still don't understand your actual point. Sorry :-(
The indesputable fact is that it was a church first. Unless you are trying to say that it was a mosque first?
  #134  
Old 18.07.2007, 17:13
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Re: Mosques with or without Minarette?

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As for my post .. it may be easy to ignore it now .. but with muslim populations increasing what will happen..

I show concern because Islam was forced upon India centuries ago and they were definitely fundamentalists.
So what should we do now: increase the non-muslim population or decrease the muslim population.

Question: Is this increase in muslim population related to birth or there are more people converting to islam.

The Indian history contains a big chapter of British rule...What do a normal person in India think about British Raj.
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  #135  
Old 18.07.2007, 17:20
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Re: Mosques with or without Minarette?

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As side reading for people interested in this thread, the Hagia Sophia in Istanbul has a very interesting history. Can we think it's such a coincidence that the Christian church was built with the altar so close to where the Mihrab would have to be?
Not getting your point either

But then again, what if Hagia Sophia's altar isn't directed towards the east, like in catholic churches, but towards Jerusalem?

Now draw a line from Istanbul through Jerusalem and see how close Mekka is to that line

Just a conspiracy theory of course Dan Brown probably already thought of it
  #136  
Old 18.07.2007, 17:28
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Re: Mosques with or without Minarette?

The re-use of the holy building for both christian and muslim worship without any real internal modifications in the sixth century does not interest you? That the religions share many significant basics? That the Christian church was (re-)built with the altar position almost identical to where a mosque would have it?
  #137  
Old 18.07.2007, 18:01
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Re: Mosques with or without Minarette?

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I show concern because Islam was forced upon India centuries ago and they were definitely fundamentalists.
I don't agree with your statement. Muslim rulers ruled India for as long as 800 years and if they had forced Islam on India then most of the Indians would have been muslims by the time British arrived. There was mixture of culture due to the arrivals of persians and they also built hindu temples alongside the mosques.

And the Hinduism itself came from outside the India. Infact the earliest hindus (called as Aryans) came from Mongolia. Would you not then say that they forced Hinduism on India :-) Just to make my point clear.
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  #138  
Old 18.07.2007, 18:28
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Re: Mosques with or without Minarette?

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The re-use of the holy building for both christian and muslim worship without any real internal modifications in the sixth century does not interest you? That the religions share many significant basics? That the Christian church was (re-)built with the altar position almost identical to where a mosque would have it?
Now it gets real blurry

"The re-use of the christian holy building of the 6th century by the muslims in the 15th century without any real internal modificitians" is how I would have phrased it.

Anyway, so the Muslims didn't want to tear it down and build a new mosque. Yeah, quite interesting. Could also be a feat of humiliation: "see we have taken your biggest church, turned it into a mosque and have surrounded it with minarettes that are higher than it".

Like I said, just a conspiracy theory.
  #139  
Old 18.07.2007, 18:32
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Re: Mosques with or without Minarette?

It's not the only place to have changed hands without significant changes,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umayyad_mosque

Last edited by cyrus; 18.07.2007 at 18:33. Reason: missed point
  #140  
Old 18.07.2007, 21:18
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Re: Mosques with or without Minarette?

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It's not the only place to have changed hands without significant changes,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umayyad_mosque
also maybe something that was learned from the early Catholic church ???

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christi...tianized_sites
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