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Old 17.01.2012, 13:45
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Re: the law about car accidents death

Tiberiu, I'm very sorry to hear these tragic news and wish you a lot of strength in these difficult times. I can't even imagine what you and your family must be going through at the moment and I wish you all the best.

Trying to answer your original question I have to say that things get a bit more complicated becasue an army vehicle was involved. Genereally speaking, inventory and people belonging to the army are first subject to Military law and only in serious cases can be subject to civil law. This most certainly is a serious case and the legal follow up will almost certainly involve both, military and civil law.

Generally speaking from my time in the army if there was any incidents with legal implications the Army as an organisation would compensate any damaged / injured civilian property (i.e. one of our tanks rammed a bus, but noone was seriously hurt other than the bus, which was a write-off) and would then punish the faulty individual internally - often through military prison (which is by no means equivalent to a civilan prison). I've seen this process a few times for smaller cases like damaged farmland or buildings etc. and generally speaking the compensation paid by the army was very generous.

Of course, no money can ever compensate the loss of a loved one, but the point I'm trying to make is that given that the army is involved, there are two different types of legal frameworks that apply here. You and your lawyer will most likely only be able to influence the civilan part of it.

Hope that helps!
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Old 17.01.2012, 13:48
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Re: the law about car accidents death

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According to the OP, they were heading for Germany. However, the scene of the accident is on the A1, direction of St. Gallen, shortly after the junction with the A7, which is the correct highway to Germany. Most liekly, the OP's father realized he had missed the exit and stopped in order to drive back (i.e., backwards, which happens quite often with eastern Europeans that have missed an exit on the Autobahn).
For the respect of the OP - maybe we should stop sitting in our loungechairs and guess what the cause for the crash my have been without any knowledge other than Blick and forum posts. I know I wouldn't appreciate it. Thanks everyone.
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Old 17.01.2012, 14:09
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Re: the law about car accidents death

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Must be something different between the FR and DE versions of the story
Apparently whoever wrote the French version thinks that 3+2=6.

Tom
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Old 17.01.2012, 14:49
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Re: the law about car accidents death

What a sad story. I hope your mother and sister will be better soon!
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  #45  
Old 17.01.2012, 15:09
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Re: the law about car accidents death

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Well at least we know you aren't one... so that leaves the other category.
Pardon my blatant assumption..but is it fair to say, that you're all of the above?
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Old 17.01.2012, 15:24
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Re: the law about car accidents death

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According to the OP, they were heading for Germany. However, the scene of the accident is on the A1, direction of St. Gallen, shortly after the junction with the A7, which is the correct highway to Germany. Most liekly, the OP's father realized he had missed the exit and stopped in order to drive back (i.e., backwards, which happens quite often with eastern Europeans that have missed an exit on the Autobahn).
franks y know verry wel my father,even if he misssed the exit to germany he would not go backwards on the highway he has his driver license over22years and he didinth have ani accident!y am comming back at21 today and discus about how the accident happened!thank you all who suported me and thank you all who judges by the articles from any newspaper hope god will give you the power to understand that the newspapers are writting only20%30% of the true!
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Old 17.01.2012, 15:34
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Re: the law about car accidents death

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Pardon my blatant assumption..but is it fair to say, that you're all of the above?
I wouldn't know, I never make assumptions.
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Old 17.01.2012, 15:35
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Re: the law about car accidents death

Might as well continue the public service. I hope you don't mind - it just helps a) me to understand what you wrote, and b) others to understand. I think your spoken English must be quite good.

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franks y know verry wel my father,even if he misssed the exit to germany he would not go backwards on the highway he has his driver license over22years and he didinth have ani accident!y am comming back at21 today and discus about how the accident happened!thank you all who suported me and thank you all who judges by the articles from any newspaper hope god will give you the power to understand that the newspapers are writting only20%30% of the true!
FrankS, I know my father very well. Even if he had missed the exit to Germany, he would not have gone backwards on the highway. He had his driving license for over 22 years, and didn't have any accidents. I am coming back at 21:00 today to discuss how the accident happened.

Thank-you to all who supported me, and thank-you all who judge by the articles from any newspaper. I hope God will give you the power to understand that the newspapers are only writing 20-30% of the truth.
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Last edited by NotAllThere; 17.01.2012 at 17:08. Reason: Frankly to FrankS
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  #49  
Old 17.01.2012, 16:06
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Re: the law about car accidents death

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a want to ask is not a law in ch. for imprisonement for this kind of accidents??
Attempts on life and personal integrity are covered by the Swiss Penal Code, namely arts. 111 to 136

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y have heared that is an involuntary or negligence kil but is stil remaian a murder in my opinion
Murder as defined by Swiss Law (and Romanian Law as well since they are both of Napoleonic heritage) implies intention (art. 111) and carries a minimum sentence of 5 years.

Homicide by negligence e.g. without prior intention of causing death is covered by art. 117 and carries a maximum sentence of 3 years detention or a fine.

In court the onus will be on the prosecution to prove intention for the deed to qualify as murder as opposed to homicide by negligence.

If the offending car was an armored Audi then it would be one of the special assignment cars and hence carry a blackbox (but unlikely as it doesn't have military tags - see examples of military black-on-grey stenciling) so the burden of proof will be eased somewhat by the box recordings.

If the offending car was the usual run-of-the-mill as Skoda wagons used en masse by the Swiss military then it is quite likely that it is not equipped with a blackbox and so the eventual recklessness of the driver (i.e. driving with excessive speed / not enough spacing) will rely on the result of technical expertise and witness statements. Recklessness will bias the judgement towards a harsher punishment however it does not equate with intention in court.

Note that there is a discussion of whether spacing - stopping legal provisions apply correctly to highway driving, considering the stopping distance at night is by far superior to the actual visibility distance (covered by dipped headlights).

So far Swiss jurisprudence has never accused drivers of murder but rather of homicide by negligence.
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Old 17.01.2012, 16:28
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Re: the law about car accidents death

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FrankS[/B];1460325]According to the OP, they were heading for Germany. However, the scene of the accident is on the A1, direction of St. Gallen, shortly after the junction with the A7, which is the correct highway to Germany. Most liekly, the OP's father realized he had missed the exit and stopped in order to drive back (i.e., backwards, which happens quite often with eastern Europeans that have missed an exit on the Autobahn).
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Might as well continue the public service. I hope you don't mind - it just helps a) me to understand what you wrote, and b) others to understand. I think your spoken English must be quite good.



Frankly, I know my father very well. Even if he had missed the exit to Germany, he would not have gone backwards on the highway. He had his driving license for over 22 years, and didn't have any accidents. I am coming back at 21:00 today to discuss how the accident happened.

Thank-you to all who supported me, and thank-you all who judge by the articles from any newspaper. I hope God will give you the power to understand that the newspapers are only writing 20-30% of the truth.
I don't meant to be pedantic as I think you've been very helpful in helping people to understand the posts but I think he was relying to FrankS in the first part of the text (or at least that was my understanding of it).

A very sad situation for everybody involved and I hope the OP gets some answers to his questions later.
  #51  
Old 17.01.2012, 17:03
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Re: the law about car accidents death

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That's is a very courageous statement to make when looking at the Audi from behind...
My reply was in response to persons stating that there was a Skoda combi, not an Audia A8, not military or armored, etc. Based on the pictures I saw, the front wheels, windscreen, doors, etc are all where they started. Normaly in a his speed direct impact, the windscreen would be knocked out, the wheels would have moved back into the doors jamming the front ones into the rear and crumpling the rocker panels, etc. So while the engine compartment crumpled, the other usual effects did not occur which leads me to make such a courageous statement.

Yours is a useful contribution how? This type of petty, useless response is part of why people are leaving the forum.
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Old 17.01.2012, 17:09
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Re: the law about car accidents death

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I don't meant to be pedantic as I think you've been very helpful in helping people to understand the posts but I think he was relying to FrankS in the first part of the text (or at least that was my understanding of it)....
I think you're right. Fixed.
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Old 17.01.2012, 17:30
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Re: the law about car accidents death

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franks y know verry wel my father,even if he misssed the exit to germany he would not go backwards on the highway he has his driver license over22years and he didinth have ani accident!y am comming back at21 today and discus about how the accident happened!thank you all who suported me and thank you all who judges by the articles from any newspaper hope god will give you the power to understand that the newspapers are writting only20%30% of the true!
Hi, I am so sorry to read what happened to your family.

I understand how you will want to know what happened and who was to blame. But this will not help you and your family rebuild your lives.

Be assured the Swiss police will persue and prosecute anyone responsible, but this will not bring your father back. Your family need you now and seeking retribution is a natural reaction, but in the long term not one that will help you move on...

Last edited by AbFab; 17.01.2012 at 18:23.
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  #54  
Old 17.01.2012, 18:37
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Re: the law about car accidents death

First of all my sincerest condolences for the loss of your loved ones, it is a truly tragic event. I am very sorry.

However, you and your family will not be the only ones suffering. All parties involved and their families have had their lives changed forever. If the driver at fault is still alive, he or she will be haunted by this horrible event until the day they die.

Will the driver at fault go to prison? After reading the newspaper article, my prediction is no, for the following reasons:

The relevant offence here will be similar to vehicular manslaughter. Intent doesn't need to be proved in traffic offences, however negligence does. Here the level of negligence is of key importance. If the driver at fault was not travelling excessively fast, under the influence of a substance or driving a defective vehicle, then the level of neglegence is not of a high category. If he or she had hit a stationary car in the breakdown lane, then that would be gross negligence. However, a car stopped in the fast lane, especially if hidden by a crest in the road, is a dangerous obstacle.In this case, the driver at fault will almost certainly lose their licence, pay a heavy fine as well and possibly a suspended sentence based on good behaviour. But actually going to prison is very unlikely.

I understand it may go some way to easing your grief knowing the driver is spending time behind bars, but destroying another persons life won't bring your loved ones back. And that person is in any case codemned to a life of guilt, regret and nightmares.

Having spent 10 years in traffic enforcement and having seen road carnage daily, I think I am qualified to make this statement.
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Old 17.01.2012, 19:44
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Re: the law about car accidents death

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Hi, I am so sorry to read what happened to your family.

I understand how you will want to know what happened and who was to blame. But this will not help you and your family rebuild your lives.

Be assured the Swiss police will persue and prosecute anyone responsible, but this will not bring your father back. Your family need you now and seeking retribution is a natural reaction, but in the long term not one that will help you move on...
I guess that for the moment, the pursuit of justice brings him some sort of comfort, but most probably he will realize that no matter if putting the other driver behind bars or not, it will not bring back his father. What he is living right now, seeing the mother in agony and the sister with no hope for ever walking on her own feet again must be extremely painful.
I hope he will be able to find some peace and the Swiss police will do its job.
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Old 17.01.2012, 20:11
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Re: the law about car accidents death

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According to the OP, they were heading for Germany. However, the scene of the accident is on the A1, direction of St. Gallen, shortly after the junction with the A7, which is the correct highway to Germany.
Obviously not if you are trying to get to Bavaria.
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Old 17.01.2012, 20:19
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Re: the law about car accidents death

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Pro Bono:

I am writing this article about my father's car accident which happened in Switzerland, with a military army car on 8.12.2011. It's about a Romanian family traveling in a personal car from Germany. My father was entering the A1 highway, trying to get to Germany, when he was hit from behind by another German car - an Alpha Romeo Giuleta. The imapct was very hard, but from the statement of my living sister, only the car was destroyed. My mother father and sister were ok. My father's car was a Ford Mondeo combi - a very long car, with a very big trunk. This was the first collison!

After this collision, my father could not start the engine of his car, because the accident left the vehicle unable to move from the first lane of the highway. A second car (the military-army car), was comming at very high speed(over 160km/h) and crashed into the back of my father's car. My father was killed instantly, my mother was in a coma for 13 days. The doctors didn't give her more then an 8% chance to live, but God performed a miracle on her and kept her alive. Now she is not able to recognize any of her children and still has a serious brain injury. She has suffered 3 hip operation
s (possibly spinal?) My sister has had 6 operations on her legs (unclear) bazin loungs ribs She was crushed like a bug, and she is now an invalid. She will never walk again!

In short, my family was destroyed by a speed-freak, driving a bulletproof Audi A8. A 4 tonne car - almost triple the weight of my fathers car! I have a very good lawyer taking care of my case, but I want to ask whether there is a law in Switzerland for imprisonement for this kind of accident?


I have heared that there is causing death involuntary or negligently, but in my opinion, thisl remains a murder. If you are not able to control or to drive a car why do you drive it? Who has the control? The driver or the car? I hope to receive an answer a.s.a.p to inform me about the law. Thank you very much! P.S the driver that killed my father after this accident needed psychological help to recover. What about my sister, she was the one that informed me about this accident. She was conscious after 20 hours and gave me the news of my father's death and my mother's condition. What about me? I needed to come to Switzerland to collect my father's body and leave my sister and mom here for the funerals of my father.


Perhaps the car had military plates, or the poster was told that it was a military car.. The police are able to determine speeds immediately prior to the accident, so they'll be able to tell if he was doing 160. If he was, then even if the poster's father was initially at fault by joining Autobahn incorrectly - which isn't obvious - he'll still have the book thrown at him.

A cyclist who hit an old lady on a shared cycle/pedestrian path, due to momentary inattention, had to do time in prison, despite the woman's family pleading for clemency. So it's like the driver of the military vehicle will be imprisoned.

Causing death through negligence is call manslaughter, and is otherwise known as 3rd degree murder.
thank you verry much Notallthere for translating and understanding the meneaning of my questions y will try to answer everyone who has posted in this topic yes indeed that war my questions!later y will tell everithing that y know about this accident and hope that some readers of this post will understand the true story wich is verry diferent from the newspaper!
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Old 17.01.2012, 20:36
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Re: the law about car accidents death

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I guess the OP is referring to this accident.

A military licensed plate Skoda was involved.
dear assassin is not involved a skoda its a 4tone audi a8 military private vehicle he was transportin a important member of the army y dont know where!and in the accident was involved 3cars 1my fathers car 2white alpha romeo giuleta 3audi a8 military car that the one who hits my father car the other ones where avoiding the caramboule!no one needs to be einstein to understand how the accident happened look at the alpa romeo he is only damaged on the left side the right side is intact if he was the second one that hit my father like that supposed to look his car???NO!my father cars didinth have a tehnical problem because he was stoped in the parking area of that highway(that what y sister tell me)he was stop for a short pause after that he started to travel on his way 100m!my father entered the highway and the alfa romeo probably had also a high speed but managed to break a litlle bit but stil hits my father car in the left side of his trunk (portabagaj) he pushed my fathers car 40.50m foward and after that the audi a8 come with verry high speed over160kmh and crashed into the back side of my fathers car and from the impact my fathers car was turned in the oposite direction of traveling in the highway!please everyone who comments this post look first at the pictures and try to connect dots of this problem!y have seen my fathers car because y was there to colect his belongins and near the car was the alfa romeo in that same garage...is not posible to be alfa romeo the second hiter of my father!this is not personali commented for you its for all who write and asumed some guesing
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Old 17.01.2012, 20:39
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Re: the law about car accidents death

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However, that article states that a car stopped for unknown reasons in the right-hand lane, and was hit at full speed by the military vehicle, which was in turn hit by another. Two other vehicles avoided collision, but were damaged.

Tom
y think you are right st2lemans indeed my father was stoped in the right lane of the highway because he was hit from alfaromeo and that the unknowed reason my fathers car wasent able to restart after the first hit and didinth have the time to start because(from the statement of my sister)it was couple of second until the second car bumped into my father
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Old 17.01.2012, 20:47
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Re: the law about car accidents death

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Indeed, make you wonder if perhaps the Mondeo got knocked to the left by the Alfa, then rammed by the Audi, which then spun and bounced off the guard rail, as that amount of damage doesn't quite fit wth hitting just the guard rail (which it clearly did do).

Which would fit the OPs version, BTW.

Tom
see mister st2lemans if you analised a litle bit the case you will see the truth look at the face of the audi and at the face of alfa romeo...
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