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  #61  
Old 17.01.2012, 20:54
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Re: the law about car accidents death

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As I understand it from the 20min article, the guilty person died in the accident.
maybe you didinth read the right newspaper mr franks if my father is guiti y am ready to face it because he is dead but from my litle experience as a driver y know the fact when you are hit from behind in absolutli no case is not your fault because the other drivers need to keep the safeti distance and to anticiped the wrong movement from the drivers that is in front of you! is this not truetrue???
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Old 17.01.2012, 21:02
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Re: the law about car accidents death

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The Police article seems relatively clear. How the police describe the case is not the same as how the first poster described it.

The thread openers father for some reason stopped on the Autobahn. From the police report and the pictures the Alfa Romeo did not hit the Mondeo in a "first accident" the "first touch" was the Military Vehicle which collided un-braked with your fathers stationary car on the Autobahn, another vehicle (maybe the Alfa Romeo) went into the back of the Army Vehicle.

The main question for the police will be why the Mondeo was stopped in lane 1. Maybe this was mechanical problems, but it doesn't appear to be due to have been related to the Alfa Romeo hitting them.

The unmarked Army vehicles are often Skodas, but the Skoda in the picture doesn't look like it has that much damage to it so maybe it was the Audi... If it was the Audi I'd imagine it was someone very high up in the Army involved.
well judgefred explain me please why or how if the alfa romeo hits my father the second(because the second hit killed my father)how his car is so little damaged and the face of the audi is distrioed in that manner???my sister told me after the first hit he ask my mom and dad are you ok??my father said verry quickli ies and he was busi tryng to restart the car because he was realizing his famili is in danger on the highway!!!something from the statement of the militari car driver he tells he noticed my fathers cars accident too later to brake...y gues is pretty obious what happened!!!dont you think???
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Old 17.01.2012, 21:04
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Re: the law about car accidents death

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According to the OP, they were heading for Germany. However, the scene of the accident is on the A1, direction of St. Gallen, shortly after the junction with the A7, which is the correct highway to Germany. Most liekly, the OP's father realized he had missed the exit and stopped in order to drive back (i.e., backwards, which happens quite often with eastern Europeans that have missed an exit on the Autobahn).
you are probabily right mr franks some of the western europeans do that kind of mistake and go backwards if thei missed the right exit but not my dad my dad didinth do that kind of mistake because he would realise that he risks his family and own life!!!
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Old 17.01.2012, 21:07
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Re: the law about car accidents death

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look at the alpa romeo he is only damaged on the left side the right side is intact if he was the second one that hit my father like that supposed to look his car?? [...]!my father entered the highway and the alfa romeo probably had also a high speed but managed to break a litlle bit but stil hits my father car in the left side of his trunk (portabagaj) he pushed my fathers car 40.50m foward
If the right side of the Alfa is intact as you say and the left is damaged as it appears in the photos, there is no physical way it could have hit your father's Mondeo on the left side.

Further to that, when one enters the motorway, one does not have the right of way, so it might look like your father might be at fault for the initial accident if he popped in front of the Alfa.
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Old 17.01.2012, 21:07
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Re: the law about car accidents death

When our friend Begga was killed in a road accident in Basel, the online newspaper account was open to comments, and that upset a lot of people here, because of the crass, stupid, ill-informed and insensitive comments made by people who really didn't have a clue. It'd be a shame if there were similar people posting here.

Agafitei, there are people on this forum who've been kind and understanding. Then there are those who don't quite have the same empathy.

Best thing - don't respond to those who keep going on about the accident causes. They simply don't know. They are idly speculating, and thereby potentially causing great grief.

You do not have to defend your father against these accusations.
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  #66  
Old 17.01.2012, 21:08
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Re: the law about car accidents death

I think the descriptions of this accident by the OP,should not be made public on EF.Some lawyer will make use of it if it contradict some other stamens

Last edited by cannut; 17.01.2012 at 21:51.
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  #67  
Old 17.01.2012, 21:11
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Re: the law about car accidents death

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Tiberiu, I'm very sorry to hear these tragic news and wish you a lot of strength in these difficult times. I can't even imagine what you and your family must be going through at the moment and I wish you all the best.

Trying to answer your original question I have to say that things get a bit more complicated becasue an army vehicle was involved. Genereally speaking, inventory and people belonging to the army are first subject to Military law and only in serious cases can be subject to civil law. This most certainly is a serious case and the legal follow up will almost certainly involve both, military and civil law.

Generally speaking from my time in the army if there was any incidents with legal implications the Army as an organisation would compensate any damaged / injured civilian property (i.e. one of our tanks rammed a bus, but noone was seriously hurt other than the bus, which was a write-off) and would then punish the faulty individual internally - often through military prison (which is by no means equivalent to a civilan prison). I've seen this process a few times for smaller cases like damaged farmland or buildings etc. and generally speaking the compensation paid by the army was very generous.

Of course, no money can ever compensate the loss of a loved one, but the point I'm trying to make is that given that the army is involved, there are two different types of legal frameworks that apply here. You and your lawyer will most likely only be able to influence the civilan part of it.

Hope that helps!
thank you for this post mr tomberli!y dont care anymore if this military guy get in the prison or something like a punishement y hope to god that he will realise what he caused and how much pain provoched my famili and especialy to my mom and my sister!its not about the money because like you said not even all the money in the world could brong back my father even if y want to trade with god my life in exchange for his its stil not bring him back!y hope and pray to god and my father to give me the power to forgive this man and the power that y need to continue to carry on helping my mom and my sister because they reali need me in this moments...
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  #68  
Old 17.01.2012, 21:20
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Re: the law about car accidents death

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Attempts on life and personal integrity are covered by the Swiss Penal Code, namely arts. 111 to 136



Murder as defined by Swiss Law (and Romanian Law as well since they are both of Napoleonic heritage) implies intention (art. 111) and carries a minimum sentence of 5 years.

Homicide by negligence e.g. without prior intention of causing death is covered by art. 117 and carries a maximum sentence of 3 years detention or a fine.

In court the onus will be on the prosecution to prove intention for the deed to qualify as murder as opposed to homicide by negligence.

If the offending car was an armored Audi then it would be one of the special assignment cars and hence carry a blackbox (but unlikely as it doesn't have military tags - see examples of military black-on-grey stenciling) so the burden of proof will be eased somewhat by the box recordings.

If the offending car was the usual run-of-the-mill as Skoda wagons used en masse by the Swiss military then it is quite likely that it is not equipped with a blackbox and so the eventual recklessness of the driver (i.e. driving with excessive speed / not enough spacing) will rely on the result of technical expertise and witness statements. Recklessness will bias the judgement towards a harsher punishment however it does not equate with intention in court.

Note that there is a discussion of whether spacing - stopping legal provisions apply correctly to highway driving, considering the stopping distance at night is by far superior to the actual visibility distance (covered by dipped headlights).

So far Swiss jurisprudence has never accused drivers of murder but rather of homicide by negligence.
y didinth want to expres my self like that y didinth want to sound like this man was intentionali kill my father but y realy cannot find the right words in this moments y know and realised it was not a murder,y dont know to much the laws but y know verry whell the driving laws and one of them sound like that:you need to anticipate the wrong movements of the drivers in front of you and be carefull not to be involved in a car accident for not keeping the safety distance!thats only one of them and its lots of the driving laws that was broken in this accident!if any of this post are drivers please tell me if someone hits youfrom behind is it you fault???even if you stop or brake sudenly or turn to left or right y know is not your fault
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Old 17.01.2012, 21:31
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Re: the law about car accidents death

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Hi, I am so sorry to read what happened to your family.

I understand how you will want to know what happened and who was to blame. But this will not help you and your family rebuild your lives.

Be assured the Swiss police will persue and prosecute anyone responsible, but this will not bring your father back. Your family need you now and seeking retribution is a natural reaction, but in the long term not one that will help you move on...
no is not the interes the blame someone y just want to find out the true for the memory of my father to be clean and for his soul to find his rest y know if this man goes to jail will not bring my father back and not recoer my mom and my sister y am verry conviged and y trust the authoritys in this country they will find the truth and with all this situation y can bare anithing y am ready for everything y just want the truth to be fiindeth out
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Old 17.01.2012, 21:32
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Re: the law about car accidents death

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even if you stop or brake sudenly or turn to left or right y know is not your fault
And there's the rub. However much I understand your grief and your sorrow over having lost your father, and conceding that speeding is another matter altogether, on a motorway, you must not
  • stop, especially not outside the emergency stopping lane,
  • reverse,
  • brake suddenly without reason,
  • veer left or right suddenly,
  • drive very slowly,
unless there is no choice for the driver to do so (such as, but not limited to, circumstances like mechanical breakdown, traffic jam, or bad visibility)
because traffic behind you will be fast and expecting a clear run. That's how motorways work unfortunately.
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Old 17.01.2012, 21:41
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Re: the law about car accidents death

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!thats only one of them and its lots of the driving laws that was broken in this accident!if any of this post are drivers please tell me if someone hits youfrom behind is it you fault???even if you stop or brake sudenly or turn to left or right y know is not your fault
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And there's the rub. However much I understand your grief and your sorrow over having lost your father, and conceding that speeding is another matter altogether, on a motorway, you must not
  • ,
Not only on a motorway, but everywhere else actually.

The Romanian equivalent is:

Quote:
Art. 160. - (1) Conducatorul de vehicul care intentioneaza sa porneasca de pe loc sau sa opreasca, sa īntoarca, sa iasa dintr-un rānd de vehicule stationate sau sa intre īntr-un asemenea rānd, sa vireze spre dreapta sau spre stānga pentru schimbarea benzii ori directiei de deplasare sau sa mearga īnapoi este obligat sa efectueze aceste manevre numai dupa ce a semnalizat si s-a asigurat ca o poate face fara a pune īn pericol participantii la trafic care īl urmeaza, īl preceda ori cu care urmeaza sa se īntālneasca, tinānd seama de pozitia, directia si viteza acestora.
  #72  
Old 17.01.2012, 21:53
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Re: the law about car accidents death

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First of all my sincerest condolences for the loss of your loved ones, it is a truly tragic event. I am very sorry.

However, you and your family will not be the only ones suffering. All parties involved and their families have had their lives changed forever. If the driver at fault is still alive, he or she will be haunted by this horrible event until the day they die.

Will the driver at fault go to prison? After reading the newspaper article, my prediction is no, for the following reasons:

The relevant offence here will be similar to vehicular manslaughter. Intent doesn't need to be proved in traffic offences, however negligence does. Here the level of negligence is of key importance. If the driver at fault was not travelling excessively fast, under the influence of a substance or driving a defective vehicle, then the level of neglegence is not of a high category. If he or she had hit a stationary car in the breakdown lane, then that would be gross negligence. However, a car stopped in the fast lane, especially if hidden by a crest in the road, is a dangerous obstacle.In this case, the driver at fault will almost certainly lose their licence, pay a heavy fine as well and possibly a suspended sentence based on good behaviour. But actually going to prison is very unlikely.

I understand it may go some way to easing your grief knowing the driver is spending time behind bars, but destroying another persons life won't bring your loved ones back. And that person is in any case codemned to a life of guilt, regret and nightmares.

Having spent 10 years in traffic enforcement and having seen road carnage daily, I think I am qualified to make this statement.
no mr litespeed y dont want this man to go in prison because y realised this would make worst for his family y feel pity for them because now y know how its feel not to have a loved person beside you...it was a stupid thing of my to think like that in this situation.but y hope and y pray to god to give the strenght to forgive this man...you are quite right if is behind bars do not make me feel better...if you think that he has nightmares what do you say about mi sister a was couples of night with her in the hospital(the hospital managers allowed me to be there for her)and y have seen how she wakes up in the midle of the night all sweatin and afraid like she sees the death in front of her eieys and crying until the break of dawn...and screming of pains and y want to ask you is greater pain in this world knowing that your father is dead and you cannot go at his funerals????y dont think it exist!!ya have now 38 days since the accident happened and y could not sleep until 3or4am and y sleep maximum 2hours all this situation cannot allow me to sleep knowing that my father is gone my mother not knowing who y am and could remember her family and her name and y can continue like this until the morning...thats the real nightmare
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Old 17.01.2012, 21:59
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Re: the law about car accidents death

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I guess that for the moment, the pursuit of justice brings him some sort of comfort, but most probably he will realize that no matter if putting the other driver behind bars or not, it will not bring back his father. What he is living right now, seeing the mother in agony and the sister with no hope for ever walking on her own feet again must be extremely painful.
I hope he will be able to find some peace and the Swiss police will do its job.
no no no y just want the real true to come out for the memory of my father and 4his soul to find his peace thank you for your undertsnding is no greather pain in the world seeing your mom in this condition and not realising who y am and not be able to know who she is...but the hardest part will be when she it gone to be constient and y will have to explains the man whi was her husband for 35years is no longer in this world....
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Old 17.01.2012, 22:00
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Re: the law about car accidents death

That bit of rood, looking at the pictures, is unlit, so unless the Audi driver saw the accident ahead happen and was going so fast he couldn't do anything about it, he would have arrived, in the dark, at a confused scene with at least one rear light on the Mondeo out.
The headlight 'reach' barely allows to you to travel at 30kmh safely, let alone motorway speeds.

If he had nowhere to go, then all he could do was brake and hope, but as it's been pointed out, it's a big car so the impact is massive. I have to say, a car doing 160kmh is usually to be found in the offside lane.

The police investigate hundreds of accidents every year and are experts in getting to the root cause.
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Old 17.01.2012, 22:06
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Re: the law about car accidents death

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I think the descriptions of this accident by the OP,should not be made public on EF.Some lawyer will make use of it if it contradict some other stamens
y just can wait for the police investigation and hope that a lawyer has the evidence to contest what y am sayng y just cant wait for a lawyer to contradict the evidences that they exist
  #76  
Old 17.01.2012, 22:10
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Re: the law about car accidents death

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y just can wait for the police investigation and hope that a lawyer has the evidence to contest what y am sayng y just cant wait for a lawyer to contradict the evidences that they exist
How long did they say for the report`?
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Old 17.01.2012, 22:23
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Re: the law about car accidents death

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When our friend Begga was killed in a road accident in Basel, the online newspaper account was open to comments, and that upset a lot of people here, because of the crass, stupid, ill-informed and insensitive comments made by people who really didn't have a clue. It'd be a shame if there were similar people posting here.

Agafitei, there are people on this forum who've been kind and understanding. Then there are those who don't quite have the same empathy.

Best thing - don't respond to those who keep going on about the accident causes. They simply don't know. They are idly speculating, and thereby potentially causing great grief.

You do not have to defend your father against these accusations.
y need to say something about this and y know that some people cant understand what realy happened but when y have the police investigation y will come back with the result that will shout the mouth of those who has the willing to understand
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Old 17.01.2012, 22:34
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Re: the law about car accidents death

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[/LIST] Not only on a motorway, but everywhere else actually.

The Romanian equivalent is:
yes thats verry correct shorrick my father was entering the highway when he was hit from behind by this alfa romeo in the pictures of the newspaper the parcking area wher my father was stoped you can see it and the entering line in the highway wher my father was hit and pushed my father into the highway in the first lane and my father car wasent able to restart and in couples of second the audi camed right into my father...y will come back with the investigation from the police thanks all for understanding and for all the help!
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Old 17.01.2012, 22:38
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Re: the law about car accidents death

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How long did they say for the report`?
somewhere mid januari the accident was on 08.12.2011 but y gues by the end of januari y will recieve this report
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Old 17.01.2012, 22:38
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Re: the law about car accidents death

Maybe we can leave this now until the OP comes back with the result of the investigation. If anyone else sees the results of this first, request a re-open.

If anyone really has a problem with the closing, PM me please.
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