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  #81  
Old 18.01.2012, 17:41
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Re: Increased shoplifting due to North African Asylseekers

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Not only is it illegal now, but anyways they would much rather turn down money from Murdery Blooddiamond Guy than take it, because the cost to their reputation should it ever come out they took money from this guy would be far greater damage than any profit they could get from having his assets under management.
So why exactly did we get some news on "x mil frozen" in 20min.ch after the fall of every single dictator last year? Mubarak, Ben Ali, Ghaddafi...all were well respected private banking customers in Switzerland, no? I believe they are from the same countries as these refugees... Did I forget one?
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  #82  
Old 18.01.2012, 17:42
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Re: Increased shoplifting due to North African Asylseekers

While in principle you are correct Trev reality just doesn't work that way. Remember the case where France blocked the border to Italy to prevent Lybian refugees to enter its country because they knew they couldn't be repatriated? Refugees move relatively freely within Europe and apply where they want, hardly ever are they moved back to the port/country of entry.
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  #83  
Old 18.01.2012, 17:49
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Re: Increased shoplifting due to North African Asylseekers

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And to answer your airport question: I don't get it, Nigeria does not need to have direct flights to Ireland, the refugee just cannot enter through another EU country. He could come from any hub outside the EU, say for example Zurich.
Most Nigerian asylum seekers to Ireland come via the UK - some would say because of higher benefit payments. Some others have commented that Irish teachers were tipping them off on deportation raids to keep class numbers up keeping their public service jobs safe.

As simon_ch points out what happens in reality is often far from what is theoretically correct.
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  #84  
Old 18.01.2012, 17:52
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Re: Increased shoplifting due to North African Asylseekers

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So why exactly did we get some news on "x mil frozen" in 20min.ch after the fall of every single dictator last year? Mubarak, Ben Ali, Ghaddafi...all were well respected private banking customers in Switzerland, no? I believe they are from the same countries as these refugees... Did I forget one?
Exactly my point. well said.
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  #85  
Old 18.01.2012, 17:54
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Re: Increased shoplifting due to North African Asylseekers

History has shown that it's easier for some countries to accept dirty money from dirty hands and turn down or stop the "small" guys at the border (shoplifters or not).

There was recently a TV report on TSR about this problem in Tessin. The refugee center director or police chief claimed that only a minority is creating all these problems (violence, shoplifting, etc..), I remember hearing 15%. The "facts" I remember:

1) all are economic refugees. they are not in Europe because of fear for their security.

2) main issue is the fact that they are idle the whole day and very few get jobs paid by the commune (30chf/day). Those who work don't pose any problem.

I think we should apply Schengen-Dublin agreement and deport them back to italy where they entered the schengen space.
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  #86  
Old 18.01.2012, 18:36
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Re: Increased shoplifting due to North African Asylseekers

the hypocrisy here is in welcoming rich criminals with roses and stirring racial mischief about the poor ones

this, coming from the pawns of a system based on tax evasion and money laundering, is very rich indeed
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  #87  
Old 18.01.2012, 19:08
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Re: Increased shoplifting due to North African Asylseekers

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the hypocrisy here is in welcoming rich criminals with roses and stirring racial mischief about the poor ones

this, coming from the pawns of a system based on tax evasion and money laundering, is very rich indeed
This is simply not true, as other posters on this thread have explained.

But even if it was, I don't see why one crime should excuse another.
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  #88  
Old 18.01.2012, 19:15
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Re: Increased shoplifting due to North African Asylseekers

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Of course. When the media say things we like to hear we believe every word.

When they say something we don't like they are obviously a bunch of liars and crooks..
Exactly, you hit the the nail on the head. Among things we do like is to believe we are better than others, so that is why a part of the mass media goes straight to the heart of people. It speaks their language.
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Old 18.01.2012, 21:23
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Re: Increased shoplifting due to North African Asylseekers

could someone explain exactly how a dude could urinate on a police officer? I mean, I understand the mechanics of urination, but am baffled by how the act could ever be accomplished in advance of the inevitable police response. maybe the police in Central Switzerland are just particularly laid-back?

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  #90  
Old 18.01.2012, 22:00
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Re: Increased shoplifting due to North African Asylseekers

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could someone explain exactly how a dude could urinate on a police officer? I mean, I understand the mechanics of urination, but am baffled by how the act could ever be accomplished in advance of the inevitable police response. maybe the police in Central Switzerland are just particularly laid-back?

Some of us are just always prepared to whip it out at a moment's notice.

And that would be my deep contribution to this thread.
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  #91  
Old 18.01.2012, 22:19
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Re: Increased shoplifting due to North African Asylseekers

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could someone explain exactly how a dude could urinate on a police officer? I mean, I understand the mechanics of urination, but am baffled by how the act could ever be accomplished in advance of the inevitable police response. maybe the police in Central Switzerland are just particularly laid-back?

Ninja Super Soaker Sniper.
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  #92  
Old 18.01.2012, 23:16
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Re: Increased shoplifting due to North African Asylseekers

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So you do agree on paying taxes to freely support guys who just come here to become criminals at your expense and ruin the society you live in? Otherwise stop the politically-correct propaganda, I am sure we've all had enough of that. This is not about positioning oneself against asylum seekers, this about those who come (and many of them without a good reason) to cheat on you and me.
I don't believe that asylum-seekers coming to Switzerland BECOMES criminal, the asylum-seekers misbehaving in Switzerland, probably misbehaved also in their own country...

Second, there are a lot of thing I don't want to pay taxes for...if only we could choose...

How about all the Swiss cheating the IV? you want to pay for them?

There are bad eggs in all countries and societies...
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Old 18.01.2012, 23:20
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Re: Increased shoplifting due to North African Asylseekers

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So why exactly did we get some news on "x mil frozen" in 20min.ch after the fall of every single dictator last year? Mubarak, Ben Ali, Ghaddafi...all were well respected private banking customers in Switzerland, no? I believe they are from the same countries as these refugees... Did I forget one?
and also don't forget that Switzerland sold weapons to these Dictators...which ironically was used to kill the families of the refugees which are here now...
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  #94  
Old 18.01.2012, 23:31
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Re: Increased shoplifting due to North African Asylseekers

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According to the local paper, North Africans, especially those from Tunesia, are responsible for the increase in shoplifting in Central Switzerland. When caught, the shoplifters react aggressively by shouting, hitting, spitting and even urinating on the police.

On the other hand, pickpocketing has decreased.
the most non-saying news of 2012......the local paper was probably mistaken for a SVP flyer...which we all know is all but the truth...
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  #95  
Old 18.01.2012, 23:46
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Re: Increased shoplifting due to North African Asylseekers

IMO we can bring a solution in favour of asylum seekers/the local population only if we admit the problem.

Of course, we should be particularly carefull with the words we use towards ethnic groups. On the other hand, to put everything on the account of racism won't bring us any further.

IMO young people who WANT education and a better future are more than ever needed to build that in certain of their home countries now and Switzerland, as well as Europe should support the effort in their home countries.
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Old 19.01.2012, 00:02
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Re: Increased shoplifting due to North African Asylseekers

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I think we should apply Schengen-Dublin agreement and deport them back to italy where they entered the schengen space.
Trouble is, the Italian bureaucracy takes back only a tiny fraction of those illegal asylum seekers that should go back according to the Dublin agreement. If my memory serves me right, currently it's about five persons per work day. Ask those officials in Bern who have to cope with this problem. I know one who resigned because he couldn't stand it any longer. He told me Switzerland is being ridiculed by the Italian bureaucrats.
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Old 19.01.2012, 00:12
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Re: Increased shoplifting due to North African Asylseekers

Makes sense, why rob stores in Tunisia and risk having my hand cut off, when I can rob stores in Switzerland and get free room and board (oh! and cable TV with CSI re-runs) if Im caught. Its a win-win!


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According to the local paper, North Africans, especially those from Tunesia, are responsible for the increase in shoplifting in Central Switzerland. When caught, the shoplifters react aggressively by shouting, hitting, spitting and even urinating on the police.

On the other hand, pickpocketing has decreased.
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  #98  
Old 19.01.2012, 00:27
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Re: Increased shoplifting due to North African Asylseekers

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So why exactly did we get some news on "x mil frozen" in 20min.ch after the fall of every single dictator last year? Mubarak, Ben Ali, Ghaddafi...all were well respected private banking customers in Switzerland, no? I believe they are from the same countries as these refugees... Did I forget one?
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and also don't forget that Switzerland sold weapons to these Dictators...which ironically was used to kill the families of the refugees which are here now...
Correct. In 1972, three years after Ghaddafi seized power, he bought a corvette built in Italy and equipped with two or three Swiss Oerlikon anti-aircraft guns, typically useful for killing families of refugees. Any more examples?
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Old 19.01.2012, 01:00
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Re: Increased shoplifting due to North African Asylseekers

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and also don't forget that Switzerland sold weapons to these Dictators...which ironically was used to kill the families of the refugees which are here now...
Which of course SWEDEN never would do
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Old 19.01.2012, 01:41
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Re: Increased shoplifting due to North African Asylseekers

You'd think that with the large number of bouncers being bred in the Innerschweiz, you could sort this out. Swap the traditional gear for black suits and Migros will be safe again.


On a more serious note - I wish the Swiss government would for once be unbureaucratic and apply a simple "anti-social behaviour? asylum request denied, no further requests possible" rule. All these young trouble-makers are taking away time, space and resources from those who truly need help. I mean, for crying out loud, they are still selling package holidays to Tunisia, how "unsafe" can it be?

As for the not having money to eat - why can't they implement a system of you getting standard clothes and three square meals a day? If you want to do something away from your residence, then you have the option of getting a packed lunch. If you want money, you could be assigned tasks to do for which you get a symbolic amount. If your prime concern is to be safe and this is costing a state other than your own money, then that state only has to ensure safety and health, not "comfortable living". If it becomes apparent and generally known that all you can expect as an asylum seeker in Switzerland is to be "kept alive" and that this is generally less fun than sitting in a dark room with a wet paper bag over your head, it will become less attractive to those who come with ill intent and still a good option for those who need to be safe.

This, of course, does not solve the immediate problem of shoplifting - maybe they need to implement a system whereby the asylum seekers can only go to the shops in the company of a staff member. If you can't behave like a responsible adult, you get treated like a child. Those that prove themselves to be honest and have actively contributed to society in some way would then be able to win the right to go out on their own.

And they really need to hurry up these application reviews, not knowing is probably as frustrating as the lack of money or rights. Genuine asylum seekers should be able to get on with rebuilding their lives as quickly as possible as I do not doubt that all they want is to work for their living and be safe. And if there are less "bad eggs", then people's attitudes may finally change. Because I find myself crossing to the other side of the street when I see a man from the African continent approaching. I wish I could stop doing that, as I'm sure a few of those men had no intention of hassling me but notice that I'm doing it and are offended by it. But almost every time I DON'T cross the road, the dreaded "hey, beautiful, wanna be my friend / mademoiselle, vous savez où ce trouve.... ah, vous parlez français!" Spiel starts. Or you get appraisingly looked up and down, followed by some disgusting lip smacking noise / exaggerated lip licking or similar. I want my freedom back too...
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