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  #81  
Old 14.02.2012, 15:10
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Re: Right wingers are less intelligent than left wingers (politics)

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  #82  
Old 14.02.2012, 15:22
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Re: Right wingers are less intelligent than left wingers (politics)

What a strange/funny topic... the fact that people actually think there is a difference between right or left when this comic pretty much says it all

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  #83  
Old 14.02.2012, 15:26
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Re: Right wingers are less intelligent than left wingers (politics)

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Maybe JonnyLaRock sounds drastic, but I agree with some of his points. They called themselves "national socialists" but they persecuted, convicted and murded socialists and communists (among others of course). I'm sure with that.

Concerning Stalin I abstain from making any statements as this is more difficult for me to judge. But as far as it concerns the national socialists it's a pretty clear thing. Not much 'left wing' about them.
I don't think that who you persecute comes into it.

Hitler locked up fellow Nazis who criticised him.

Stalin purged some of his closest allies and advisors.

Islamists are killing fellow islamists who disagree with them over minor points.

The list goes on.

All extremists hate those who disagree with them. Whether they disagree totally or just a little is secondary.

Remember the term Bolshevist means majority. The Bolshevists weren't the majority initially but they called themselves that for PR reasons and then proceeded to make themselves a majority by eliminating those who stood in their way.

So I don't believe that you can tell who an extremist is by looking at who his enemies are. It doesn't work that way.
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  #84  
Old 14.02.2012, 16:59
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Re: Right wingers are less intelligent than left wingers (politics)

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What do the Swedes have to do with Swiss Air Space? I'm confused. Maybe I'm having an unintelligent right wing senior moment.
RUAG Aerospace is a union-owned semi-military aerospace-company in Switzerland. Saab Aerospace promised not only to give the final assembly to RUAG but also allow them to produce spares and equipment for at least the planes purchased by Switzerland AND to become a supplier of components for Saab Aerospace in a wider way.

There before was a heavy co-operation between Saab Aerospace and Crossair, who purchased both Saab 340 and Saab 2000.

But also Dassault, the producer of the Rafale, is in touch with many Swiss companies about co-operation deals. So that it in reality is an industrial matter and not so much a strategic one

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  #85  
Old 14.02.2012, 17:31
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Re: Right wingers are less intelligent than left wingers (politics)

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thanks for the personal attack. I was hardly advocating a view one way or the other, simply pointing out that, in terms of how Americans have traditionally thought of "right wing" vs. "left wing", the Nazi political agenda was decidedly "left wing". Americans, btw, also view the Stalinist political agenda as being "left wing", regardless of whether or not its practical application was truly "socialist" or not.

you can, of course, accuse all Americans of being politically illiterate as to the true definition of "socialism", have at thee if it helps you sleep at night.
It is not some question of "true" socialism, but the Nazis simply were none. At all. They were as fascist as it gets following in many ways Mussolinis example.
"Right winged" generally means a political ideal with a hierachical society... the exact opposite of communism, which would be the most extreme left wing. It does not matter that the USSR was VERY hierachical - their ideal was not. The Nazis on the other hand were the most hierachical political system one could possibly come up with.
And right winged in the sense of the research that was the actual topic (yes, this thread had a topic before...) were idiotic racists. That is nearly synonymous with "neonazi" and as far as I know not only in Europe but in the US as well. It does not matter if they are white supremacists, hammer skins or kkk... all the same scum. And the research shows that they were already idiots in kindergarden.
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  #86  
Old 14.02.2012, 17:46
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Re: Right wingers are less intelligent than left wingers (politics)

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I don't think that who you persecute comes into it.

Hitler locked up fellow Nazis who criticised him.

Stalin purged some of his closest allies and advisors.

Islamists are killing fellow islamists who disagree with them over minor points.

The list goes on.

All extremists hate those who disagree with them. Whether they disagree totally or just a little is secondary.

Remember the term Bolshevist means majority. The Bolshevists weren't the majority initially but they called themselves that for PR reasons and then proceeded to make themselves a majority by eliminating those who stood in their way.

So I don't believe that you can tell who an extremist is by looking at who his enemies are. It doesn't work that way.
Yes, I partly agree with your argumentation but not to look at those they targeted would be unfair as well. I wanted to give some information which had been overlooked otherwise and rather state that JonnyLR had some good points.

Ok, all I'm saying is, that among the German parties the communists had the highest number of victims during the 'national socialistic' regime.(hope I remember that correctly) I just wanted to point that out, because I don't know if that is well-known and I find it important to say.

So one of the first political targets, when they came to power, were the "left parties" like communists and socialists. Just to take that into account.

They never had been in one team before.

The 'national socialists' themselves wanted to be distinguished from the left parties as well as from the conservatives, as they said.

Plus their socialistic slogans were merely spread in the beginning years to get some votes. This might not totally decide their political direction, but I think it's fair to highlight for those who were definitely left. KPD and SPD e.g. And there was a huge variety of parties in the Weimarer Republik. It too easy to say that they were 'left', because it's not all-true. They mainly aimed for the middle classes.

(Basically they had the ability to tell everybody but their enemies how great they look, just to win them for a one night stand. When some people (most of them not) start to realize with whom they went to bed with, it was too late. And this party wasn't picky with their program whether left or right. It was all about 'national' and few about 'socialist').
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Old 14.02.2012, 17:59
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Re: Right wingers are less intelligent than left wingers (politics)

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It is not some question of "true" socialism, but the Nazis simply were none. At all. They were as fascist as it gets following in many ways Mussolinis example.
"Right winged" generally means a political ideal with a hierachical society... the exact opposite of communism, which would be the most extreme left wing. It does not matter that the USSR was VERY hierachical - their ideal was not. The Nazis on the other hand were the most hierachical political system one could possibly come up with.
And right winged in the sense of the research that was the actual topic (yes, this thread had a topic before...) were idiotic racists. That is nearly synonymous with "neonazi" and as far as I know not only in Europe but in the US as well. It does not matter if they are white supremacists, hammer skins or kkk... all the same scum. And the research shows that they were already idiots in kindergarden.
I am pretty sure that research shows that most people are idiots, btw, and that stupidity can be found pretty much anywhere you may choose to stop for a beer along the political spectrum. for sure the research would show that everybody, regardless of intelligence or political affiliation, is prone to moments of stupidity.
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  #88  
Old 14.02.2012, 18:03
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Re: Right wingers are less intelligent than left wingers (politics)

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...sound and fury, signifying nothing.

p.p.s bonus point if you can tell me which play that last sentence is an homage too.
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  #89  
Old 14.02.2012, 18:10
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Re: Right wingers are less intelligent than left wingers (politics)

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And the research shows that they were already idiots in kindergarden.
Stamping people by their intelligence is a bit inflammatory in my opinion.

Especially if the people who do the study design the intelligence test themselves to be able to garner the results they want to prove.

I'm surprised nobody has mention this one yet.

Let's say it shows racist right wing nutters know how to manipulate IQ tests as well.

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Old 14.02.2012, 18:22
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Re: Right wingers are less intelligent than left wingers (politics)

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So one of the first political targets, when they came to power, were the "left parties" like communists and socialists. Just to take that into account.
You can interpret that both ways.

A madman's greatest percieved enemy is a similar madman because they think in similar patterns.

It's why we are more likely to argue with our siblings than with random acquaintances. Or why the Aargauers hate the Zürchers. People recognise their own shortcomings in the other. And it drives them crazy.

You know, it's a bit ironic that Hitler accused Jews of leeching off society, seeing he had spent most of his youth without work, was kicked out of art school and had basically lived off and abused the charity of others. Do you see the pattern?
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  #91  
Old 14.02.2012, 18:59
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Re: Right wingers are less intelligent than left wingers (politics)

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I am pretty sure that research shows that most people are idiots, btw, and that stupidity can be found pretty much anywhere you may choose to stop for a beer along the political spectrum. for sure the research would show that everybody, regardless of intelligence or political affiliation, is prone to moments of stupidity.
The research this thread is about showed that the more stupid kids were more prone to racism when they became adults. Racism is per definition a right winged thing (because communists per definition believe that we are all the same).

Is it so hard to read the original post plus linked research paper and discuss it? Or is there a reason why do you prefer to write some vague hot air instead?
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Old 14.02.2012, 19:11
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Re: Right wingers are less intelligent than left wingers (politics)

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The research this thread is about showed that the more stupid kids were more prone to racism when they became adults. Racism is per definition a right winged thing (because communists per definition believe that we are all the same).

Is it so hard to read the original post plus linked research paper and discuss it? Or is there a reason why do you prefer to write some vague hot air instead?
you've got to be joking with the statement I've emphasized. and if you're not, I don't have the kryptonite for your kind of logic, leaving aside of course the inane ad hominem attack. your summary of the research report suffers the same flawed premise that your statement does - it presumes that racism is confined to the "right wing", whatever the Hades "right wing" might mean. and I'm pretty sure the report's finding that racist people tend to be stupid does not come as earth-shattering to you?

you may chalk it up to my being stupid, won't bother me a bit.

oh, as a courtesy, here is a link to the Webster online defintion of "racism". remarkably, there is no mention of "right wing".

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/racism
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Old 14.02.2012, 19:13
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Re: Right wingers are less intelligent than left wingers (politics)

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You can interpret that both ways.

However, according to the meaning "left wing"/"right wing" in today's language (or whatever Wittgenstein meant with: the meaning is the use of a word in a particular language-game) has for me. Nazis were not left-wing. A bit like Treverus stated it some posts before.



The following is meant with regard to left/right and not to racism:

or maybe it's a clear case of a duckrabbit concerning the interpretation!

...now I hope there aren't any philosophers out there, to call my dilettantism.
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Old 14.02.2012, 19:18
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Re: Right wingers are less intelligent than left wingers (politics)

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However, according to the meaning "left wing"/"right wing" in today's language (or whatever Wittgenstein meant with: the meaning is the use of a word in a particular language-game) has for me. Nazis were not left-wing. A bit like Treverus stated it some posts before.


or maybe it's a clear case of a duckrabbit concerning the interpretation!

...now I hope there aren't any philosophers out there, to call my dilettantism.
hopefully, however, we can all agree that the Nazis were racist, and stupid. and 2 out of 3 ain't bad, to quote the immortal bard, Meatloaf.
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Old 14.02.2012, 19:26
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Re: Right wingers are less intelligent than left wingers (politics)

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hopefully, however, we can all agree that the Nazis were racist, and stupid. and 2 out of 3 ain't bad, to quote the immortal bard, Meatloaf.
Well I do!

What did you try to say?

What's 2 out of 3? "People always think something's all true", Holden.

I was just stating that 'right wing' is kind of implied in (my European/German/whatever) understanding of racism.

Like: Not all 'right wings' are racist. But all racists are kind of 'right wing'.
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Old 14.02.2012, 19:38
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Re: Right wingers are less intelligent than left wingers (politics)

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However, according to the meaning "left wing"/"right wing" in today's language (or whatever Wittgenstein meant with: the meaning is the use of a word in a particular language-game) has for me. Nazis were not left-wing. A bit like Treverus stated it some posts before.
No.

It really depends on how you define left/right and that definition has shifted over time. Today a lot of people say that the belief that the state should be very powerful and control people's lives a lot is a left wing belief. The idea that the world should be one country with one government is also a left wing utopia. In that respect the Nazis were as left wing as you can get. Obviously they were also racist. The Nazis show what you get when you mix left wing ideas with racism. Not at all pretty.
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Old 14.02.2012, 19:38
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Re: Right wingers are less intelligent than left wingers (politics)

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Well I do!

What did you try to say? What's 2 out of 3?

I was just stating that 'right wing' is kind of implied in (my European/German/whatever) understanding of racism.

Like: Not all 'right wings' are racist. But all racists are kind of 'right wing'.
sorry, 2 out of 3 ain't bad is an old saying and a bad American pop song from ages ago.

I don't think that racism knows any political affiliation, any more than stupidity knows any political affiliation. this may be in part because we Americans generally tend to view the Stalin and Hitler regimes as "left wing" (same as we view the regimes in China and Cuba). for sure it is also in part because our own dark history of slavery was most-fervently promoted and defended by our Democratic Party, the more "left" of our two parties.
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Old 14.02.2012, 19:54
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Re: Right wingers are less intelligent than left wingers (politics)

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No.

It really depends on how you define left/right and that definition has shifted over time. Today a lot of people say that the belief that the state should be very powerful and control people's lives a lot is a left wing belief. The idea that the world should be one country with one government is also a left wing utopia. In that respect the Nazis were as left wing as you can get. Obviously they were also racist. The Nazis show what you get when you mix left wing ideas with racism. Not at all pretty.

well that's why I said to the meaning left wing/right wing has for ME!

And of course it's not pretty!! I never said that!

I just think that Nazis were not left wing. That's all.

That's my opinion. And why I stood up for that is Because I (amongst others) got to talk to a persecuted man who was 'left' and spend a lot of time in camps where he saw others die. So in completely unfancy words. That sucked. And because I know how much he would thought "that sucks" when he would see that Nazis were declared as lefties now, I gave my opinion,that there were groups more left than the Nazis. This can't be the end of the story but it's a contributing fact.

Further I stated that it's a point of definitions in today's language/understanding. whooo.. drama..because I refer to people before I start to "sell" an idea.
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Old 14.02.2012, 19:54
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Re: Right wingers are less intelligent than left wingers (politics)

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Old 14.02.2012, 19:59
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Re: Right wingers are less intelligent than left wingers (politics)

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sorry, 2 out of 3 ain't bad is an old saying and a bad American pop song from ages ago.
I know. I just wanted to get sure which two are right, or if it was just a fill-in or rebellion.

Thanks for your left/right definition explanations,though. It seems we have different ones.
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