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  #21  
Old 01.03.2012, 22:13
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Re: Row erupts over Geneva cross-border workers

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Accord franco-suisse de 1983

Toutefois, selon l’accord franco-suisse de 1983 sur le traitement fiscal des frontaliers, le frontalier qui passe la frontière tous les jours est exonéré de l’impôt à la source, la France rétrocédant à notre pays les 4,5% de son salaire brut.


In short: Franco-Swiss agreement 1983. According to said agreement, if a 'frontaliers' crosses the border every day to work s/he is exonerated from paying tax at source (eg in CH), France paying back to CH 4.5% of the salary before tax.
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  #22  
Old 01.03.2012, 22:40
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Re: Row erupts over Geneva cross-border workers

Quote:
Quote:

Accord franco-suisse de 1983

Toutefois, selon l’accord franco-suisse de 1983 sur le traitement fiscal des frontaliers, le frontalier qui passe la frontière tous les jours est exonéré de l’impôt à la source, la France rétrocédant à notre pays les 4,5% de son salaire brut.


In short: Franco-Swiss agreement 1983. According to said agreement, if a 'frontaliers' crosses the border every day to work s/he is exonerated from paying tax at source (eg in CH), France paying back to CH 4.5% of the salary before tax.
I'm sorry Odile, but my husband works in Geneva, crossing the border every day as we live just across the border in France.... we were priced out of the rental market in Switzerland once the children started to work (even their tiny salaries as apprentices counted as family income) so we moved to France; he IS taxed at source after twenty years of the other system and has been since we moved. I doubt the authorities have got it wrong for over ten years.
Perhaps Geneva has a different system to the rest of Switzerland, it wouldn't surprise me at all.

Addition; perhaps that accord is for french people working in Switzerland?

Last edited by Anjela; 01.03.2012 at 22:42. Reason: Addition
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  #23  
Old 01.03.2012, 22:40
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Re: Row erupts over Geneva cross-border workers

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The real issue with frontaliers is taxes. They use the Geneva infrastructure but don't pay for it, and with highly qualified jobs, that amounts to a lot of money. Plus on the French side, apparently there's a lot of non declared people who are pricing out the housing market for the locals and aren't paying taxes there either! So tax evasion is usually the n°1 issue behind these selection criteria. Plus hiring a highly qualified, locally living head of hospital is not an issue, so don't throw that one in. Switzerland has no lack of qualified people.
I've been in too many EU countries all complaining particularly about foreign nurses to find this anything but the usual fare. If aging baby boomers would have had children this wouldn't be a problem...but they didn't have more than 1 or 2 on average (i.e. not enough to grow the population enough to pay their pensions and wipe their arises when they got older) and, so, Switzerland should be really freaking happy that they have enough nurses even with them coming over the border to work. Without them, there'd be a pretty serious shortage. There are plenty of countries experiencing a health care worker shortage, some more severe than others, and with the ranks of soon to retire folks....there should be an end to the bitching and a serious campaign to retain the ones they have and get as many interested in health care into programs right now. All you have to do is look at the demographic graphs for the next 20 years to know that things are going to look very different rather soon.
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  #24  
Old 01.03.2012, 22:43
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Re: Row erupts over Geneva cross-border workers

Quote:
Quote:

Accord franco-suisse de 1983

Toutefois, selon l’accord franco-suisse de 1983 sur le traitement fiscal des frontaliers, le frontalier qui passe la frontière tous les jours est exonéré de l’impôt à la source, la France rétrocédant à notre pays les 4,5% de son salaire brut.


In short: Franco-Swiss agreement 1983. According to said agreement, if a 'frontaliers' crosses the border every day to work s/he is exonerated from paying tax at source (eg in CH), France paying back to CH 4.5% of the salary before tax.
This is correct - except for the Canton of Geneva which has its own "accord". Cf for all possible combinations: http://www.frontalier.org/fiscalite.htm

" Le frontalier est domicilié en France et travaille dans le canton de Genève : il est imposé à la source par Genève."
"
Le frontalier est domicilié en France, travaille dans un canton frontalier autre que Genève et retourne quotidiennement à son domicile en France : il est imposé en France (cantons suisses de Vaud, Valais, Berne, Soleure, Bâle ville, Bâle campagne, Neuchâtel et Jura)."

etc.
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Old 01.03.2012, 22:47
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Re: Row erupts over Geneva cross-border workers

Thank you, I had no idea. I live right near the border a bit further North and thought that the agreement was valid for all border areas with France. Merci.
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Old 01.03.2012, 22:52
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Re: Row erupts over Geneva cross-border workers

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This is correct - except for the Canton of Geneva which has its own "accord". Cf for all possible combinations: http://www.frontalier.org/fiscalite.htm

" Le frontalier est domicilié en France et travaille dans le canton de Genève : il est imposé à la source par Genève."
" Le frontalier est domicilié en France, travaille dans un canton frontalier autre que Genève et retourne quotidiennement à son domicile en France : il est imposé en France (cantons suisses de Vaud, Valais, Berne, Soleure, Bâle ville, Bâle campagne, Neuchâtel et Jura)."

etc.
I knew it, never take anything for granted in Switzerland!
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  #27  
Old 01.03.2012, 22:53
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Re: Row erupts over Geneva cross-border workers

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Thank you, I had no idea. I live right near the border a bit further North and thought that the agreement was valid for all border areas with France. Merci.
Yeah, Geneva is just different. To be honest: worser. For everything.

Wish I could live in Neuchatel

/rant off
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Old 01.03.2012, 22:58
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Re: Row erupts over Geneva cross-border workers

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Yeah, Geneva is just different. To be honest: worser. For everything.

Wish I could live in Neuchatel

/rant off
Too true. I'm trying to work out how I can move in with my second son's in-laws in Delly-Portalban, the view from their house out over Lac Neuchâtel is amazing!
Although that's technically in Fribourg I think....
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  #29  
Old 01.03.2012, 23:01
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Re: Row erupts over Geneva cross-border workers

Angela I spent every Summer in Portalban when I was a child. We rented a tiny chalet right by the Lake, no mod cons- it was magic

People so often say taxes are too high in Neuchatel - and yet everything else is so much cheaper- so quids in all the way.
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  #30  
Old 01.03.2012, 23:17
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Re: Row erupts over Geneva cross-border workers

Beats Burnham-on-Sea!
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  #31  
Old 02.03.2012, 00:42
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Re: Row erupts over Geneva cross-border workers

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The real issue with frontaliers is taxes. They use the Geneva infrastructure but don't pay for it, and with highly qualified jobs, that amounts to a lot of money. Plus on the French side, apparently there's a lot of non declared people who are pricing out the housing market for the locals and aren't paying taxes there either! So tax evasion is usually the n°1 issue behind these selection criteria. Plus hiring a highly qualified, locally living head of hospital is not an issue, so don't throw that one in. Switzerland has no lack of qualified people.
I'm really missing something here...
1) Which infrastructure are frontaliers supposed to use? We arrive in the morning, work in Geneva and then leave the country. On the other hand, most of my tax goes straight to the Swiss, deducted at source. With a small fraction paid to the french state, by the Swiss. So, as I understand it, the situation is exactly the reverse of what you describe.
2) I do not believe that tax evasion has anything to do with frontaliers being employed by the Canton de Geneve. Please explain its relevance.
3) Please give evidence that highly qualified locals are available.
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