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  #41  
Old 04.03.2012, 19:11
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Re: A humoristic lesson on Swiss geography!

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Mais non, mais non Mud. Allez, une petite leçon de Romand:
Romand Français
putzer = nettoyer (to clean)
un p'tit coup de putze = un petit nettoyage (a quick clean)
amazing to see that the German word (standard-German PUTZEN, dialect PUTZE) was taken over by the Romands

while the French words PATTE and CEINTURON were taken over into German for military purposes, except that the "E" at the end of PATTE in German IS spoken. The word is now "ä Pattà"
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  #42  
Old 04.03.2012, 19:13
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Re: A humoristic lesson on Swiss geography!

Is it true that the Swiss-Germans call the Swiss-French "Welsches" or something like that?

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amazing to see that the German word (standard-German PUTZEN, dialect PUTZE) was taken over by the Romands

while the French words PATTE and CEINTURON were taken over into German for military purposes, except that the "E" at the end of PATTE in German IS spoken. The word is now "ä Pattà"
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  #43  
Old 04.03.2012, 19:28
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Re: A humoristic lesson on Swiss geography!

When I was a child we had so many Swiss German words in our 'patois'

Steckr = baton = stick

Spickr = cheval = horse

la muttre = la mère = mother

le fatre = le père = father

Edit, just thought of another one

schwanzer = faire l'école buissonière = to cut/miss lessons

Last edited by Odile; 04.03.2012 at 23:15.
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  #44  
Old 04.03.2012, 19:32
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Re: A humoristic lesson on Swiss geography!

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Is it true that the Swiss-Germans call the Swiss-French "Welsches" or something like that?
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welsche

The term is not only Swiss German, but very old Germanic for foreign speakers... originally apparently for anything celtic, but in the last 1000 years for all things romanic.
I grew up in the most Western part of Germany and "Welsch" was for me everything French. It is not a bad term or insult in any way...
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  #45  
Old 04.03.2012, 19:38
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Re: A humoristic lesson on Swiss geography!

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While "Pruntrut" does not sound nice, "Porrentruy" is not better at all.
Explanation for the others: Porrentruy is homonym with "porc en truie" meaning "swine in sow".
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  #46  
Old 04.03.2012, 21:12
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Re: A humoristic lesson on Swiss geography!

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French people can understand MOST of French Swiss, except some heavier "patois" like the one of Valais and some rural ones in remoter part of the Vaud. As I had to take over the interpreting between a French woman from Montpellier and a colleage from Sion, I know how it is. Much to my surprise, this BIlingual colleague was unable to speak in a French understandable for somebody from the South
With all due respect there is no such thing as "the patois of Valais".
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  #47  
Old 04.03.2012, 21:19
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Re: A humoristic lesson on Swiss geography!

Patois Valaisan is alive and well, in fact there are several. Go to Evolène into any bar, and the natives will switch quickly so you cannot understand what they are talking about. One of my neighbours here is an old Valaisan, and even I find it very difficult to understand him

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Alors que le français est parlé dans les districts de Sierre, de Sion, d'Hérens, de Conthey, de Martigny, d'Entremont, de Saint-Maurice et de Monthey, les germanophones, qui parlent un dialecte alémanique appelé le Walliserdeutsch, résident dans les districts de Conches de Brigue, de Viège, de Rarogne et de Loèche.
Le patois est parlé par quelques habitants dans le Val d'Hérens et dans le Val de Nendaz ainsi que dans les communes de Savièse, d'Hérémence et par une grande partie des habitants de la commune d'Évolène, dernier endroit où les enfants l'apprennent encore en famille.
Comme pour l'ensemble des parlers francoprovençaux, ceux du Valais sont menacés de disparition, bien que le patois soit encore très parlé dans la commune d'Évolène.
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  #48  
Old 04.03.2012, 21:51
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Re: A humoristic lesson on Swiss geography!

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Is it true that the Swiss-Germans call the Swiss-French "Welsches" or something like that?
Sure, for example "daas sind halt di Wälsche" , or "de Ort mues näimet im Welschland sii", or "jä das isch im Wälsche Färnseh" . Or you may read about a career of somebody grown before WWII "er verbrachte dann sein Welschland-Jahr in Neuenburg".

There may be the statement "Los ämal, di Wälsche, also d'Genfer, d'Wadtländer und d'Neueburger händ eifach chaibe gueti Wii"

Last edited by Wollishofener; 04.03.2012 at 22:01.
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  #49  
Old 04.03.2012, 21:59
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Re: A humoristic lesson on Swiss geography!

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Patois Valaisan is alive and well, in fact there are several. Go to Evolène into any bar, and the natives will switch quickly so you cannot understand what they are talking about. One of my neighbours here is an old Valaisan, and even I find it very difficult to understand him
That's the whole point - there used to be several valley patois, not one "Patois Valaisan". I have been to bars in Evolène (not that there are that many) and didn't have any problem understanding.

Maybe because I speak evolenard as well.

Anyway as your link suggests - there aren't (any longer) several patois. Evolene is the only place where patois is "alive and well"... even if barely so.
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Old 04.03.2012, 22:07
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Re: A humoristic lesson on Swiss geography!

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didn't have any problem understanding.
In the whole linguistic alpine region called either francoprovençal or arpitan, one hears more a mixed dialect, almost pidgined with French rather than the language of people before the war who didn't go to school in French. It's called franpitan.
Maybe Evolène is different. That was a general comment.
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  #51  
Old 04.03.2012, 22:08
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Re: A humoristic lesson on Swiss geography!

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That's the whole point - there used to be several valley patois, not one "Patois Valaisan". I have been to bars in Evolène (not that there are that many) and didn't have any problem understanding.

Maybe because I speak evolenard as well.

Anyway as your link suggests - there aren't (any longer) several patois. Evolene is the only place where patois is alive and well.
The Dad of Mr G... was from above Sion and G... junior spoke a patois Mrs Marseille-Montpellier-Narbonne did not understand at all. True, when I was on visit at the Sion Air Show last year and was in places in "Sion Downtown" most people spoke a fairly normal French. This may mean that things are changing. But Sion is the "Capital" of that Canton and so, this possibly does not mean so much. Far worse than the Valais-French of course is the Wallisser-Tüütsch
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  #52  
Old 04.03.2012, 22:13
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Re: A humoristic lesson on Swiss geography!

You speak Evolènard - wow. Are you a local? As a native Romande, I cannot understand it. Although a local girl friend from Evolène taught me a few bits.

www.patoisneuchatelois.net

Last edited by Odile; 07.03.2012 at 20:24.
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  #53  
Old 04.03.2012, 22:19
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Re: A humoristic lesson on Swiss geography!

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The Dad of Mr G... was from above Sion and G... junior spoke a patois Mrs Marseille-Montpellier-Narbonne did not understand at all. True, when I was on visit at the Sion Air Show last year and was in places in "Sion Downtown" most people spoke a fairly normal French. This may mean that things are changing. But Sion is the "Capital" of that Canton and so, this possibly does not mean so much. Far worse than the Valais-French of course is the Wallisser-Tüütsch
Wolli I respect your opinion... but trust me, come more often to Valais, and you'll see the only remaining patois is in Evolene. The other people speak with an accent...yes... but speak French. And this is not new - 12 years ago it was already like this.

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You speak Evolènard - wow. Are you a local? As a native Romande, I cannot understand it. Although a local girl friend from Evolène taught me a few bits.
Not a local - almost became one but in the end it didn't work out. It's quite close to my mother tongue so that's why I found it extremely easy to learn.
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  #54  
Old 04.03.2012, 23:24
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Re: A humoristic lesson on Swiss geography!

Rumanian? Interesting.
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Old 04.03.2012, 23:58
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Re: A humoristic lesson on Swiss geography!

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Wolli I respect your opinion... but trust me, come more often to Valais, and you'll see the only remaining patois is in Evolene. The other people speak with an accent...yes... but speak French. And this is not new - 12 years ago it was already like this.
The first time I visited the Valais/Wallis was in about 1977, the second time in about 1997 (breakfast in Geneva, lunch at Sion-Aéroport and dinner in Ponte Tresa) and the third time last year (train-journey Zürich-Bern-Visp-Sion), so that I do NOT claim to be an expert of Valais-Wallis matters. The "Ober-Wallisser" DO speak German, sure, but most German speakers already inside Switzerland find their Dialekt a challenge to put it mildly. The meeting of Mr G.... junior and Mrs Marseille-Montpellier-Narbonne was in about 1988, and the French of Mr G... junior therefore of the 1960ies.
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Old 05.03.2012, 00:26
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Re: A humoristic lesson on Swiss geography!

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Rumanian? Interesting.
Yeah. Valley patois have kept a number of "archaic" grammatical structures deriving from latin, and romanian has replicated the latin grammar almost fully. Also Evolene has had a considerable Lombard influence, so as far as I'm concerned that patois sounds familiar to the ear. Of course if you write it down it's a different thing... but like romanche, to the ear it sounded similar from the beginning.
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Old 05.03.2012, 17:00
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Re: A humoristic lesson on Swiss geography!

Can you buy Swiss French dictionaries, or can anyone recommend a website for this!! My French hubbie had no idea about these fruit and veg and cleaning words!!!!!
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Old 05.03.2012, 17:27
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Re: A humoristic lesson on Swiss geography!

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Can you buy Swiss French dictionaries, or can anyone recommend a website for this!! My French hubbie had no idea about these fruit and veg and cleaning words!!!!!

Here is some Vaudois vocabulary:

http://topio.ch/dico.php

If you want to listen to some real Vaudois Patois, here it is:

http://www.viddler.com/v/c2b53c83

Another list of FR/CH French

http://membres.multimania.fr/clo7/histoire/Suisse2.htm



Another dictionary.

http://www.lexilogos.com/suisse_romand_dictionnaire.htm

Last edited by Verbier; 05.03.2012 at 17:40. Reason: another link
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  #59  
Old 05.03.2012, 17:41
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Re: A humoristic lesson on Swiss geography!

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Can you buy Swiss French dictionaries, or can anyone recommend a website for this!! My French hubbie had no idea about these fruit and veg and cleaning words!!!!!
Glossaire des patois de la Suisse romande

Lexique vaudois
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Old 05.03.2012, 20:56
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Re: A humoristic lesson on Swiss geography!

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Can you buy Swiss French dictionaries, or can anyone recommend a website for this!! My French hubbie had no idea about these fruit and veg and cleaning words!!!!!
http://www.wikivalais.ch/index.php/P...tois_du_Valais
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