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  #21  
Old 12.03.2012, 13:31
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Re: Sarkozy threatens to withdraw France from Schengen zone

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As a non-EU but armed with a UK visa, I was not checked overland from Belfast to Dublin. Only at the Ferry port in Holyhead was I asked for my papers, no more than a cursory glance. The Irish Republic had no idea I had entered and left the country.
You missed the little pointy eared fella, dressed in green, watching you from over by that rainbow then?
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  #22  
Old 12.03.2012, 14:33
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Re: Sarkozy threatens to withdraw France from Schengen zone

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Wow, I don't think I realized that Ireland wasn't in the Schengen! I wonder how that works being part of a monetary union without participating in the bi-lateral agreements that allow for free labor movement. Interesting.
Ireland companies seems to be much more interested of using GBP than EUR and also UK is not part of the EURO-monetary system, there could be some clues.
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  #23  
Old 12.03.2012, 14:55
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Re: Sarkozy threatens to withdraw France from Schengen zone

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Marine Le Pen should emphasize more in her speeches how many pages Sarko is ripping out of her playbook. It needs to be coming out of her mouth every time she is on tv, and right now it isn't.
I think she is.
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  #24  
Old 12.03.2012, 14:58
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Re: Sarkozy threatens to withdraw France from Schengen zone

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Name one country who is participates in the euro currency, but isn't in the Schengen....It's just posturing but, again, it's derivative of the growing unrest from the currency problems (and some of the immigration problems). Bottom line is that pulling out of the schengen won't help, especially as the workforce ages, the boomers retire and the youth unemployment keeps growing past 30%. As much as Europeans cherish long loved grudges against each other and dislike other cultures who are far more likely to increase the population from outside the eurozone, the fact is that the eurozone needs more people to sustain current retirement and social benefits. Saying otherwise gets votes but it avoids the reality of the situation.
We need immigrants to pay the social security of our masses of unemployed?

I wonder if there is an easier solution to that one?
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Old 12.03.2012, 15:01
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Re: Sarkozy threatens to withdraw France from Schengen zone

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Wow, I don't think I realized that Ireland wasn't in the Schengen! I wonder how that works being part of a monetary union without participating in the bi-lateral agreements that allow for free labor movement. Interesting.
There are lots of countries hat use the US dollar as currency but don't have open border agreements with the US. I don't think one necessarily requires the other.
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  #26  
Old 12.03.2012, 15:18
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Re: Sarkozy threatens to withdraw France from Schengen zone

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Probably to do with the border with NI that would have to be controlled more.
That's not true. I grew up on the border in Ireland and yes, in days gone by the border was strictly controlled, due to the troubles and various security risks. Nowadays the border is completely open with Northern Ireland and there are zero checks (hence why you weren't stopped travelling Belfast - Dublin and back again) The only scenario when there are border checks now, is when either the Garda or the PSNI suspect that a criminal is about to the border. The last time I remember was around 5 years ago when an escaped convict tried to enter Northern Ireland. Although I have been out of Ireland nearly 4 years.
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  #27  
Old 12.03.2012, 15:21
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Re: Sarkozy threatens to withdraw France from Schengen zone

Oh forgot to add: One of the only reason Ireland isn't in Schengen is because the only country it shares a border with, the UK, isn't either. The UK and The Republic of Ireland have their own border treaty. I suppose they are given special status because they are both islands.

Last edited by cathair; 12.03.2012 at 15:35.
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  #28  
Old 12.03.2012, 15:22
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Re: Sarkozy threatens to withdraw France from Schengen zone

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We need immigrants to pay the social security of our masses of unemployed?

I wonder if there is an easier solution to that one?
Well, in a way, yes. Look at the progression of the age distribution in EU countries which is rapidly getting older (boomers). These older folks had fewer children and/or didn't produce enough to replace them in the population and now they're starting to retire at a time when youth unemployment is high and growth has all but stopped. If you have seen some of the graphs wrt to Greece and Spain, et. al., the debt right now is nothing compared to the wave of obligations in 5 years for retirement (wish I remembered where I saw those...I believe it was in the economist).

Just because you have unemployed folks and immigrants to fill jobs doesn't mean that by eliminating the immigrants you are able to fill those jobs. The change in the scenery here is more structural this time around and, so, it's going to be longer getting out of it.
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  #29  
Old 12.03.2012, 15:30
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Re: Sarkozy threatens to withdraw France from Schengen zone

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erm......Switzerland, kind of but backwards?
Ohhhhhh! I see what you did there... clever.
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  #30  
Old 12.03.2012, 15:34
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Re: Sarkozy threatens to withdraw France from Schengen zone

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There are lots of countries hat use the US dollar as currency but don't have open border agreements with the US. I don't think one necessarily requires the other.
I had to look it up. Panama, Ecuador and El Salvador are official users of the US Dollar.
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  #31  
Old 12.03.2012, 15:42
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Re: Sarkozy threatens to withdraw France from Schengen zone

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I had to look it up. Panama, Ecuador and El Salvador are official users of the US Dollar.
and still the favored currency for large drug transactions across the world, at least according to every movie I watch
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  #32  
Old 12.03.2012, 15:59
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Re: Sarkozy threatens to withdraw France from Schengen zone

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I had to look it up. Panama, Ecuador and El Salvador are official users of the US Dollar.
I remember in the Dominican Republic all they really took were US Dollars. They hated receiving pesos and every foreigners was required to pay tourist tax, entering and leaving the country. I think this had to be paid in dollars. It was $30 each way I think.
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  #33  
Old 12.03.2012, 15:59
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Re: Sarkozy threatens to withdraw France from Schengen zone

Sarkozy doesn't have the balls... oops I mean resources ... to leave the Schengen. It is all just political posturing in an election year.
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  #34  
Old 12.03.2012, 16:14
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Re: Sarkozy threatens to withdraw France from Schengen zone

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Well, in a way, yes. Look at the progression of the age distribution in EU countries which is rapidly getting older (boomers). These older folks had fewer children and/or didn't produce enough to replace them in the population and now they're starting to retire at a time when youth unemployment is high and growth has all but stopped. If you have seen some of the graphs wrt to Greece and Spain, et. al., the debt right now is nothing compared to the wave of obligations in 5 years for retirement (wish I remembered where I saw those...I believe it was in the economist).

Just because you have unemployed folks and immigrants to fill jobs doesn't mean that by eliminating the immigrants you are able to fill those jobs. The change in the scenery here is more structural this time around and, so, it's going to be longer getting out of it.
I understand that bit. But the consequence is, that we are saying that we aren't going to bother finding a way of getting those people back to work because it's cheaper to pay them and their children and grandchildren social security forever by taxing immigrants than to actually do something about them being unemployed in the first place. And don't forget that many of the unemployed are themselves immigrants or children of immigrants. So basically we are advocating a pyramid scheme in which the newcomers pay for everybody else. I don't know about you but that smells of cynicism to me.
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  #35  
Old 12.03.2012, 16:16
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Re: Sarkozy threatens to withdraw France from Schengen zone

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Sarkozy doesn't have the balls... oops I mean resources ... to leave the Schengen. It is all just political posturing in an election year.
And in any case, *the* thing that is preoccupying the French and Pres Sarko more than anythign else in the world - accoridng to said Pres - (even more than the rugby resolt) is the problem of not all Halal meat being labelled as such (unemployment, Europe crisis is apparently nothing compared to the way animals are slaughtered).
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  #36  
Old 12.03.2012, 17:48
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Re: Sarkozy threatens to withdraw France from Schengen zone

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I understand that bit. But the consequence is, that we are saying that we aren't going to bother finding a way of getting those people back to work because it's cheaper to pay them and their children and grandchildren social security forever by taxing immigrants than to actually do something about them being unemployed in the first place. And don't forget that many of the unemployed are themselves immigrants or children of immigrants. So basically we are advocating a pyramid scheme in which the newcomers pay for everybody else. I don't know about you but that smells of cynicism to me.
Well, indeed. The thing is that we've known for decades that the boomer population bulge was really going to be a game changer. Unfortunately, their retirement is about to coincide with lower growth and fewer people to pay for the retirement schemes. Then there's the austerity, a 'lost generation' of kids unemployed and possibly unemployable.

I sure hope someone comes up with a clever solution, but as it is right now, it seems that keeping the Euro from imploding is not being very cleverly dealt with so who knows what will happen. I do think the concept of retirement will change dramatically in the next 20 years and don't plan on having a pension (and the stocks I have, given the downward pressure the boomers selling off their own stocks/pension plans, I'm not optimistic I'll be able to see much growth in my own portfolio) so I'm likely to work until I no longer have a pulse...and I'm ok with that.
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Old 12.03.2012, 18:15
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Re: Sarkozy threatens to withdraw France from Schengen zone

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I do think the concept of retirement will change dramatically in the next 20 years and don't plan on having a pension (and the stocks I have, given the downward pressure the boomers selling off their own stocks/pension plans, I'm not optimistic I'll be able to see much growth in my own portfolio) so I'm likely to work until I no longer have a pulse...and I'm ok with that.
Radical solution would be just lower the retirement age and put the youngsters do the job. Now there is old farts getting big salaries and compailining that they don`t have enough endurance to continue in their jobs. People are getting older but they are not getting the performance at same time and that is also a problem which should be looked in this whole thing. It would be interesting to see calculations about this idea.

Closing the borders are not way to solve these things. Of cource it would be good that people who are coming have even plan or signed work contract before entering, but that is different story.
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  #38  
Old 12.03.2012, 18:18
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Re: Sarkozy threatens to withdraw France from Schengen zone

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I do think the concept of retirement will change dramatically in the next 20 years and don't plan on having a pension (and the stocks I have, given the downward pressure the boomers selling off their own stocks/pension plans, I'm not optimistic I'll be able to see much growth in my own portfolio) so I'm likely to work until I no longer have a pulse...and I'm ok with that.
Absolutely - not sure retirement will still exist when it's my turn. I'm not too happy at that, but then again it's down to me to organise myself now for the future... Perhaps I should start! (besides paying into the 3rd Pillar).
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  #39  
Old 12.03.2012, 18:58
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Re: Sarkozy threatens to withdraw France from Schengen zone

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Probably to do with the border with NI that would have to be controlled more.
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That's not true. [...] Nowadays the border is completely open with Northern Ireland and there are zero checks
That's what I meant. If Ireland joined the Schengen, it would have to control the border with NI.
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  #40  
Old 12.03.2012, 20:31
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Re: Sarkozy threatens to withdraw France from Schengen zone

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And in any case, *the* thing that is preoccupying the French and Pres Sarko more than anythign else in the world - accoridng to said Pres - (even more than the rugby resolt) is the problem of not all Halal meat being labelled as such (unemployment, Europe crisis is apparently nothing compared to the way animals are slaughtered).
Which goes to show what moron our soon-to-be-ex president is. He is trying to run his campaign surrounded by only a few close advisors. He is obsessed by his success factors from 2007. He is destabilized by being faced by an opponent who is neither the sex-mad DSK, who would have been easy to crush, nor Martine Aubry, who didn't look too tough either. Hollande is cool under fire, amusing and able to mix with normal people. Whether he will be good for France is another question, to which you will have an answer in a few months .
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