Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Swiss politics/news  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #41  
Old 15.03.2012, 11:28
Middan's Avatar
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Valais
Posts: 16
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 14 Times in 7 Posts
Middan has earned some respectMiddan has earned some respect
Re: Belgium bus crashes in Sierre tunnel (Canton Valais), 28 dead including 22 childr

Well as you can imagine its a bit of a media circus here in Sierre, although its quietened down compared to yesterday.

At the moment what I have read / heard is that the coach was not speeding, and that there were no issues with the road surface. However, there does seem to be CCTV footage available to the police, but nothing is being said more than it exists. The two top theories is that either the driver suffered a serious medical emergency (i.e. heart attack) or mechanical failure of the bus - but these are theories and nothing more.

The area of the crash is part of the connecting emergency tunnel between the east and west tunnels.

What still hurts is the level of devastation to the coach and the fact that some of the bodies still cannot be identified after 36hours.

On a positive note, if one can be taken, several of the more seriously injured children have stabilised over night, and they are hoping to discharge some of the less injured children from Sion hospital today. Military planes are standing by at Sion airfield to take them back to Belgium as soon as possible.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Middan for this useful post:
  #42  
Old 15.03.2012, 12:14
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 32,224
Groaned at 2,454 Times in 1,776 Posts
Thanked 39,322 Times in 18,535 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Belgium bus crashes in Sierre tunnel (Canton Valais), 28 dead including 22 childr

Quote:
View Post
my theory is a front right blow out
Mine as well, and also agree that had it happend anywhere else in the tunnel, there probably wouldn't have been this tragedy.

Tom
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 15.03.2012, 12:29
17clarence's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Geneva
Posts: 767
Groaned at 15 Times in 12 Posts
Thanked 965 Times in 440 Posts
17clarence has a reputation beyond repute17clarence has a reputation beyond repute17clarence has a reputation beyond repute17clarence has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Belgium bus crashes in Sierre tunnel (Canton Valais), 28 dead including 22 childr

I can see why they don't have angled barriers at the end of these laybys that could send an out of control vehicle back onto the carriageway, and possible into a head on collision scenario, but surely someone in Swiss road safety could have anticipated this and had those barrels in place?

I sincerely hope the design of these stopping places is thoroughly examined in the inquest.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank 17clarence for this useful post:
  #44  
Old 15.03.2012, 12:38
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: CH
Posts: 452
Groaned at 9 Times in 5 Posts
Thanked 648 Times in 282 Posts
Laertes has a reputation beyond reputeLaertes has a reputation beyond reputeLaertes has a reputation beyond reputeLaertes has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Belgium bus crashes in Sierre tunnel (Canton Valais), 28 dead including 22 childr

Quote:
View Post
I can see why they don't have angled barriers at the end of these laybys that could send an out of control vehicle back onto the carriageway, and possible into a head on collision scenario, but surely someone in Swiss road safety could have anticipated this and had those barrels in place?

I sincerely hope the design of these stopping places is thoroughly examined in the inquest.
They actually did have angled barriers at the end of this bay. But they just crumpled as the bus run into them with some 100 km/h.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Laertes for this useful post:
  #45  
Old 15.03.2012, 14:47
Newbie
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: basel
Posts: 7
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 10 Times in 5 Posts
zephr7 has no particular reputation at present
Re: Belgium bus crashes in Sierre tunnel (Canton Valais), 28 dead including 22 childr

There was no angled steel safety rail in place and nor are there in any of the tunnel lay-bys that I have seen in Switzerland.

As another member pointed out, the corners could be retro-fitted with something to enable vehicles to glance off the wall instead of plough straight into it in the event of a collision. I hope the inquiry will look at this - it seems the government body in charge of safety are already saying they will look again at the safety standards in these tunnels.

The families involved deserve and will expect nothing less than a full inquiry into this disaster which I hope takes place soon for the sake of others traveling on these roads as well as the memory of those who have tragically died.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank zephr7 for this useful post:
  #46  
Old 15.03.2012, 15:01
Assassin's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Chasing clouds
Posts: 4,023
Groaned at 180 Times in 123 Posts
Thanked 11,560 Times in 3,148 Posts
Assassin has a reputation beyond reputeAssassin has a reputation beyond reputeAssassin has a reputation beyond reputeAssassin has a reputation beyond reputeAssassin has a reputation beyond reputeAssassin has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Belgium bus crashes in Sierre tunnel (Canton Valais), 28 dead including 22 childr

Quote:
View Post
I can see why they don't have angled barriers at the end of these laybys that could send an out of control vehicle back onto the carriageway, and possible into a head on collision scenario, but surely someone in Swiss road safety could have anticipated this and had those barrels in place?
That was my thought as well, but I read in 20 Minutes in an interview with a road engineer expert that the walls need to be at a right angle for load bearing purposes. I can't quite understand the trigonometry that would make sense of that statement, but anything would be better at taking a direct impact than ninety degrees. It makes sense to angle the niche walls in my mind.

The other issue (not the case in this incident) is of course, where there are only two lanes in one tunnel with opposing traffic flow; any collision here would combine the kinetic energy of both vehicles and have devastating results. Always wondered why there isn't something like a foot high low division down the center of the Gotthard tunnel for instance.
__________________
Crash your karma into little bits of happiness
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 15.03.2012, 15:35
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Zurich
Posts: 233
Groaned at 6 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 284 Times in 121 Posts
Calvin has an excellent reputationCalvin has an excellent reputationCalvin has an excellent reputationCalvin has an excellent reputation
Re: Belgium bus crashes in Sierre tunnel (Canton Valais), 28 dead including 22 childr

I'm wondering tough whether installing safety rails sending the car or bus back onto the lane could have catastrophic consequences as well. The vehicle might plough into other cars, causing a massive pile-up, especially in heavy traffic or in two way tunnels.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Calvin for this useful post:
  #48  
Old 15.03.2012, 15:38
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 32,224
Groaned at 2,454 Times in 1,776 Posts
Thanked 39,322 Times in 18,535 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Belgium bus crashes in Sierre tunnel (Canton Valais), 28 dead including 22 childr

Quote:
View Post
That was my thought as well, but I read in 20 Minutes in an interview with a road engineer expert that the walls need to be at a right angle for load bearing purposes. I can't quite understand the trigonometry that would make sense of that statement, but anything would be better at taking a direct impact than ninety degrees. It makes sense to angle the niche walls in my mind.
It does make sense that a supporting wall needs to be at 90 degrees, however that doesn't prevent you from placing some kind of secondary wall or shock absorbing rail or barrels in front of it!

Tom
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank st2lemans for this useful post:
  #49  
Old 15.03.2012, 15:55
goodhill's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: ZH
Posts: 192
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 67 Times in 41 Posts
goodhill has earned some respectgoodhill has earned some respect
Re: Belgium bus crashes in Sierre tunnel (Canton Valais), 28 dead including 22 childr

it's a terrible terrible terrible thing...my hearts with all the parents, crisis and rescue team and children and and and...

Oh my oh my....my heart is painful and crying...
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 15.03.2012, 16:08
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Belgium bus crashes in Sierre tunnel (Canton Valais), 28 dead including 22 childr

Makes me shudder - this is so sad and tragic.

I took so many ski trips from my schools in the UK to Switzerland and Italy, always by coach to cut cost and allow more kids to come. We crossed the Mont Blanc Tunnel a few days before it went in flames, and I still have nightmares about it. As the teacher in charge or 2 coaches with 90 kids and 10 staff, what would I have done? I still wake up in a sweat about it.

My heart goes to all of those families, and to those of the drivers and staff. Sadly my younger colleagues just do not want to organise foreign exchanges, hiking, Youth Hostelling or skiing trips. or drive mini-buses to clubs and work experience (as we used to do with our 6th Formers to our twin towns in France and Germany). The responsibility is just too much- so sad, but I don't blame them.

(However, if you look at the statistics, the number of deaths per year in Europe for coach travel is .5% of car travel deaths- and it is still one of the safest way to travel).
Reply With Quote
  #51  
Old 15.03.2012, 17:32
esto's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: CHE
Posts: 1,361
Groaned at 76 Times in 58 Posts
Thanked 3,225 Times in 1,406 Posts
esto has a reputation beyond reputeesto has a reputation beyond reputeesto has a reputation beyond reputeesto has a reputation beyond reputeesto has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Belgium bus crashes in Sierre tunnel (Canton Valais), 28 dead including 22 childr

Driving to work today, I looked on the right-hand side of the road, and if I would veer a few feet, less than 1 meter, I could easily hit any number of inanimate objects: trees, light-poles, buildings, etc. Altho the support wall that the bus hit was a major reason for the massive impact, I wouldn't really point the finger at it and blame the people who designed or built it.

I think when tragedies like this happen, people are looking for answers, and to find a way from preventing the tragedy from happening again. I don't know if that really applies in this case. In this case it looks like a "perfect storm" of incidences: the driver suddenly veering, and the wall right there. If the driver would have veered a few feet the other way to the left, it could have hit oncoming traffic.

It's a terrible tragedy, and makes me sick to my stomach to think about it. I can't really say more than that. I guess the "how's" and "why's" may come later, or never at all.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank esto for this useful post:
  #52  
Old 15.03.2012, 17:38
Tom1234's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kanton Luzern
Posts: 16,485
Groaned at 578 Times in 453 Posts
Thanked 24,656 Times in 9,928 Posts
Tom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Belgium bus crashes in Sierre tunnel (Canton Valais), 28 dead including 22 childr

Quote:
View Post
Driving to work today, I looked on the right-hand side of the road, and if I would veer a few feet, less than 1 meter, I could easily hit any number of inanimate objects: trees, light-poles, buildings, etc. Altho the support wall that the bus hit was a major reason for the massive impact, I wouldn't really point the finger at it and blame the people who designed or built it.
But it's still always worth investigating to see if things can be improved through design.

Avoiding one accident like this would make it all worthwhile.

Quote:
View Post
I think when tragedies like this happen, people are looking for answers, and to find a way from preventing the tragedy from happening again. I don't know if that really applies in this case. In this case it looks like a "perfect storm" of incidences: the driver suddenly veering, and the wall right there. If the driver would have veered a few feet the other way to the left, it could have hit oncoming traffic.

.
Not in this tunnel - the two directions are in separate tunnels.

An example of why a change in design can be a good idea.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Tom1234 for this useful post:
  #53  
Old 15.03.2012, 17:48
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Basel
Posts: 389
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 758 Times in 216 Posts
Moorsholm has a reputation beyond reputeMoorsholm has a reputation beyond reputeMoorsholm has a reputation beyond reputeMoorsholm has a reputation beyond reputeMoorsholm has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Belgium bus crashes in Sierre tunnel (Canton Valais), 28 dead including 22 childr

Everytime I read about it I'm in tears. Everyone in the office today is getting tearful just talking about it. The pain and absolute agony of losing children, so many children is so huge for those of us just watching, I can't even start to imagine how the parents feel. Will keep all in my prayers.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Moorsholm for this useful post:
  #54  
Old 15.03.2012, 17:51
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Geneva
Posts: 5,514
Groaned at 123 Times in 108 Posts
Thanked 3,297 Times in 1,737 Posts
Shorrick Mk2 has a reputation beyond reputeShorrick Mk2 has a reputation beyond reputeShorrick Mk2 has a reputation beyond reputeShorrick Mk2 has a reputation beyond reputeShorrick Mk2 has a reputation beyond reputeShorrick Mk2 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Belgium bus crashes in Sierre tunnel (Canton Valais), 28 dead including 22 childr

Quote:
View Post
It does make sense that a supporting wall needs to be at 90 degrees, however that doesn't prevent you from placing some kind of secondary wall or shock absorbing rail or barrels in front of it!

Tom
There was a shock absorbing rail...

An angled support wall will merely deflect the oncoming mass into the opposite tunnel wall (probably inducing toppling as well if the c.g. of the vehicle is high enough).
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old 15.03.2012, 19:14
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Belgium bus crashes in Sierre tunnel (Canton Valais), 28 dead including 22 childr

It seems that putting a DVD in the player might be the cause. This is what the kids who survived said- that a teacher walked up t the driver to put a DVD in the player. I just do not understand this, as there should have been TWO drivers for such a journey. Whenever I took trips out by coach, the co-driver would always be the one to put DVDs on, adjust sound, etc, and NOT the one driving. As they left in the evening, the drivers would have been asleep all day before taking starting off- so the co-driver would have been awake to assist. Makes no sense at all.

Last edited by Odile; 15.03.2012 at 19:42.
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old 15.03.2012, 19:32
mirfield's Avatar
Moddy Wellies
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 8,727
Groaned at 53 Times in 47 Posts
Thanked 9,935 Times in 3,651 Posts
mirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Belgium bus crashes in Sierre tunnel (Canton Valais), 28 dead including 22 childr

Quote:
It seems that putting a DVD in the player might be the cause.
I really hope you're wrong
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old 15.03.2012, 19:55
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: near Schaffhausen
Posts: 477
Groaned at 8 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 169 Times in 69 Posts
SwissAstrid has an excellent reputationSwissAstrid has an excellent reputationSwissAstrid has an excellent reputationSwissAstrid has an excellent reputation
Re: Belgium bus crashes in Sierre tunnel (Canton Valais), 28 dead including 22 childr

Quote:
View Post
I really hope you're wrong
This is what Dutch media is reporting (6 dutch kids died, 4 injured as of which 2 severely injured) .

Translated from Dutch newspapers: Survivors state that one of the teachers went to the driver and handed him a dvd the children wanted to watch , seconds before impact."
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old 15.03.2012, 20:00
Belgianmum's Avatar
Roastbeef & Yorkshire mod
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Neuchâtel
Posts: 13,455
Groaned at 249 Times in 210 Posts
Thanked 22,594 Times in 9,232 Posts
Belgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Belgium bus crashes in Sierre tunnel (Canton Valais), 28 dead including 22 childr

Tomorrow will be a national day of mourning in Belgium with a minute silence at 11 o'clock.

OH had 2 colleagues who had kids on the bus. Two of them are ok but the third wasn't so lucky. They are using DNA to identify some of the victims as they are unrecognizable.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Belgianmum for this useful post:
  #59  
Old 15.03.2012, 20:08
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: near Schaffhausen
Posts: 477
Groaned at 8 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 169 Times in 69 Posts
SwissAstrid has an excellent reputationSwissAstrid has an excellent reputationSwissAstrid has an excellent reputationSwissAstrid has an excellent reputation
Re: Belgium bus crashes in Sierre tunnel (Canton Valais), 28 dead including 22 childr

Quote:
View Post
Tomorrow will be a national day of mourning in Belgium with a minute silence at 11 o'clock.

OH had 2 colleagues who had kids on the bus. Two of them are ok but the third wasn't so lucky. They are using DNA to identify some of the victims as they are unrecognizable.
It's is a disaster...For those Dutch amongst us with a flag, flag raised half tomorrow....
Reply With Quote
  #60  
Old 15.03.2012, 21:12
Belgianmum's Avatar
Roastbeef & Yorkshire mod
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Neuchâtel
Posts: 13,455
Groaned at 249 Times in 210 Posts
Thanked 22,594 Times in 9,232 Posts
Belgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Belgium bus crashes in Sierre tunnel (Canton Valais), 28 dead including 22 childr

I wouldn't like to be a coach driver at the moment. There are sure to be many similar trips ongoing or about to begin with hundreds of kids being transported.

It will be very hard for the drivers not to think about this accident and it must be very stressful for them.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
bus crash




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Children on bus - a bus pass for the Nanny Switzernooganmom Transportation/driving 4 23.02.2012 00:45
Swiss made train crashes in Norway jrspet Swiss politics/news 16 17.02.2012 22:41
jobs in sierre and montana jaz1992 Employment 1 21.11.2011 12:56
Housing in Sierre jaz1992 Housing in general 1 12.01.2011 13:32
Life in Sierre ggiri Daily life 3 03.06.2010 11:59


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 10:51.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0