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  #21  
Old 25.03.2013, 15:35
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Re: Swiss edge closer to gay adoption

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I don't necessarily want to adopt a gay.
Straight people don't need to adopt gays... they make gay children.
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  #22  
Old 25.03.2013, 15:37
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Re: Swiss edge closer to gay adoption

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Straight people don't need to adopt gays... they make gay children.
Are you quite sure about that? I mean, you sound so certain?
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  #23  
Old 25.03.2013, 15:45
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Re: Swiss edge closer to gay adoption

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Can you send me links?
Can't find it as that was about ten years ago on Pink Cross and the archive is younger.
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  #24  
Old 25.03.2013, 15:51
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Re: Swiss edge closer to gay adoption

Who remembers the referendum debates? Wasn't there something about having to treat legally the partnership law and the family law separately in the first place? Or was it just about reducing the risk of the counter-initiative to be accepted?
I don't remember.
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  #25  
Old 01.04.2013, 15:20
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Re: Swiss edge closer to gay adoption

Great news to me.
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  #26  
Old 01.04.2013, 16:01
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Re: Swiss edge closer to gay adoption

Just wanted to throw this opinion into the mix. One could argue that if a homosexual couple want to live their lives together, then they're obviously making a conscious decision that there aren't going to be any kids. Gay adoption might be considered "over equality". Gay marriage doesn't have to mean gay adoption.

Discuss.
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Old 01.04.2013, 19:05
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Re: Swiss edge closer to gay adoption

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Just wanted to throw this opinion into the mix. One could argue that if a homosexual couple want to live their lives together, then they're obviously making a conscious decision that there aren't going to be any kids. Gay adoption might be considered "over equality". Gay marriage doesn't have to mean gay adoption.
You logic is faulty because you can apply your premise to a heterosexual couple where both members are sterile.
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  #28  
Old 01.04.2013, 19:11
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Re: Swiss edge closer to gay adoption

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You logic is faulty because you can apply your premise to a heterosexual couple where both members are sterile.
Yes, but that's either an unfortunate medical situation, or out of choice. The subject is whether gay couples are legally allowed to adopt children.
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Old 01.04.2013, 19:15
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Re: Swiss edge closer to gay adoption

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Yes, but that's either an unfortunate medical situation, or out of choice. The subject is whether gay couples are legally allowed to adopt children.
In that case I guess the question is "Why not?" where the answer doesn't involve century-old fairy tales. Basically, what's the pretext for keeping the kids they wouldn't be allowed to adopt orphans? Would that be a better overall result for the world?
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Old 01.04.2013, 19:39
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Re: Swiss edge closer to gay adoption

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You logic is faulty because you can apply your premise to a heterosexual couple where both members are sterile.
Yes, but you need a sperm and an egg to produce a child. Couples of the same sex can "never" do this. So the premise is should they be allowed to try and live as "heterosexuals by proxy" by adopting?
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  #31  
Old 01.04.2013, 19:48
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Re: Swiss edge closer to gay adoption

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Yes, but you need a sperm and an egg to produce a child. Couples of the same sex can "never" do this. So the premise is should they be allowed to try and live as "heterosexuals by proxy" by adopting?
The final result remains a destiny dictated by nature, such as two heterosexuals whose reproductive systems didn't form in the correct way to allow them to have kids. If two people are a legal civil couple and are emotionally and pragmatically prepared for parenthood, who are we to tell them that they should have been content with their lot and keep that right away from them? Would you go to an orphanage, look those kids in the eyes, and tell them that fewer of them than possible will end up in homes because we find the idea of two mothers or two fathers icky and didn't give them a shot. It's not like straight couples always do such a bang-up job.
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Old 01.04.2013, 19:54
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Re: Swiss edge closer to gay adoption

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The final result remains a destiny dictated by nature, such as two heterosexuals whose reproductive systems didn't form in the correct way to allow them to have kids. If two people are a legal civil couple and are emotionally and pragmatically prepared for parenthood, who are we to tell them that they should have been content with their lot and keep that right away from them? Would you go to an orphanage, look those kids in the eyes, and tell them that fewer of them than possible will end up in homes because we find the idea of two mothers or two fathers icky and didn't give them a shot. It's not like straight couples always do such a bang-up job.
What rights? By joining into a homosexual union they gave up the "right" to reproduce naturally. The point is should they be allowed to adopt children after giving up this right and try to live as heterosexuals? And where do you get all this icky stuff?....that's in your own head! This is not an emotional issue for me, I'm just stating the facts as I see them. I never stated whether I agree or disagree with it.
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  #33  
Old 01.04.2013, 19:59
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Re: Swiss edge closer to gay adoption

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What rights? By joining into a homosexual union they gave up the "right" to reproduce naturally.
Thankfully, one of the perks of adoption is that it allows people to become parents without having created the child through natural means. And to give an orphaned child a home. The screening process for a couple to adopt a child goes far beyond whether they're physically able to have kids or not, it's not the end all be all.
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  #34  
Old 01.04.2013, 20:05
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Re: Swiss edge closer to gay adoption

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What rights? By joining into a homosexual union they gave up the "right" to reproduce naturally. The point is should they be allowed to adopt children after giving up this right? And where do you get all this icky stuff?....that's in your own head!
Giving up the right???

It is not like someone choose to be gay. You are or you are not. You are born this way. So why should a gay woman have to marry a man to be able to have a child and make everyone miserable for not living an happy and healthy life by being honest and complete with herself?

Why should it be a choice? Why being forced to marry someone you are not attracted to for the desire to be a parent? Why renouncing to an happy and healthy relationship with someone you love and are attracted to because there is only one way to have a child?

Same sex couple shouldn't be forced to renounce of the joy to have kids if this is what they want.

The first time I met a friend of mine in Switzerland who also met my daughter, I could see how great he was with her. I asked him if he had kids or if he wanted to have some, he told me he was gay. My answer was so what?

Your sexual attraction to one or the other sex shouldn't be an obstacle to parenthood.
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  #35  
Old 01.04.2013, 20:23
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Re: Swiss edge closer to gay adoption

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That's nice that you want to make the choice for them. Thankfully, one of the perks of adoption is that it allows people to become parents without having created the child through natural means. And to give an orphaned child a home.
I'm not making a choice for anyone; however, if you want to put it that way, you are making a choice for them as well. IMHO, adoptive children have a right to a mother and father. Unfortunately, they have no say in the matter and who will make the choice for them? This is opening up a can of worms which I have decided to close.
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  #36  
Old 01.04.2013, 20:31
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Re: Swiss edge closer to gay adoption

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Giving up the right???

It is not like someone choose to be gay. You are or you are not. You are born this way. So why should a gay woman have to marry a man to be able to have a child and make everyone miserable for not living an happy and healthy life by being honest and complete with herself?

Why should it be a choice? Why being forced to marry someone you are not attracted to for the desire to be a parent? Why renouncing to an happy and healthy relationship with someone you love and are attracted to because there is only one way to have a child?

Same sex couple shouldn't be forced to renounce of the joy to have kids if this is what they want.

The first time I met a friend of mine in Switzerland who also met my daughter, I could see how great he was with her. I asked him if he had kids or if he wanted to have some, he told me he was gay. My answer was so what?

Your sexual attraction to one or the other sex shouldn't be an obstacle to parenthood.
Look, I understand the political correctness stance so I am not going to carry on with this issue. I won't get into the whole thing of whether they "chose to be homosexual" or not and this is not what this thread is about anyways. So I will stay out of it because I can see where this is going. Answering so what...is the easy way out. So what is not an answer it is an excuse. It's as if nothing we do has any consequence. Your child gets in a bad fight, do you think so what? Carry on...I'm out! Well, not in that way...LOL
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  #37  
Old 01.04.2013, 21:06
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Re: Swiss edge closer to gay adoption

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Look, I understand the political correctness stance so I am not going to carry on with this issue. I won't get into the whole thing of whether they "chose to be homosexual" or not and this is not what this thread is about anyways. So I will stay out of it because I can see where this is going. Answering so what...is the easy way out. So what is not an answer it is an excuse. It's as if nothing we do has any consequence. Your child gets in a bad fight, do you think so what? Carry on...I'm out! Well, not in that way...LOL
So what?

So what if you are gay? It doesn't make you less capable to love and raise a child.
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  #38  
Old 01.04.2013, 21:20
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Re: Swiss edge closer to gay adoption

Actually, I do have some worries about gay child adoption- not because I have a problem with gays being able to be the most loving and best parents- but because of other people's attitudes. It's hard enough being an adoptee- without having to fight the battles of the adoptive parents against prejudiced and nasty people. And yet - I also think that loving parents must be a much better alternative to a life in social care. I have mixed feelings but not at all because of all this c*a* about the bits and bolts of heterosexual biology!
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  #39  
Old 01.04.2013, 21:26
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Re: Swiss edge closer to gay adoption

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Actually, I do have some worries about gay child adoption- not because I have a problem with gays being able to be the most loving and best parents- but because of other people's attitudes. It's hard enough being an adoptee- without having to fight the battles of the adoptive parents against prejudiced and nasty people. And yet - I also think that loving parents must be a much better alternative to a life in social care. I have mixed feelings but not at all because of all this c*a* about the bits and bolts of heterosexual biology!
You could say the same of interracial/interfaith marriages, mixed race adoptions, and a thousand other things....avoiding doing a good thing because you're worried about inflaming bigots is a terrible reason imho.
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  #40  
Old 01.04.2013, 21:45
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Re: Swiss edge closer to gay adoption

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It is not like someone choose to be gay. You are or you are not.
Disagree.

For some at least, it's certainly a choice.

Tom
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