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  #41  
Old 01.04.2013, 21:48
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Re: Swiss edge closer to gay adoption

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IMHO, adoptive children have a right to a mother and father.
Fair enough as far as personal opinion is concerned, but countries in which singles can adopt alone have a different juridical understanding of parenthood and they have the last word as far as law is concerned on their territory. Changing the law in such countries means voting for the parties that want such a change. In the waiting time, the law stands as it is in such countries and that is worth respecting too, as said countries are not exactly antidemocratic hells.
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  #42  
Old 01.04.2013, 22:04
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Re: Swiss edge closer to gay adoption

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Disagree.

For some at least, it's certainly a choice.

Tom
Cool. And?
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  #43  
Old 01.04.2013, 22:09
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Re: Swiss edge closer to gay adoption

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You could say the same of interracial/interfaith marriages, mixed race adoptions, and a thousand other things....avoiding doing a good thing because you're worried about inflaming bigots is a terrible reason imho.
I am not worried about inflaming bigots - they can burn in hell as far as I am concerned - but I am concerned about the possible effect on the children.
But yes, on balance, I am leaning your way.
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  #44  
Old 01.04.2013, 22:24
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Re: Swiss edge closer to gay adoption

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Disagree.

For some at least, it's certainly a choice.

Tom
Explain?
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  #45  
Old 01.04.2013, 22:25
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Re: Swiss edge closer to gay adoption

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Disagree.

For some at least, it's certainly a choice.

Tom
Perhaps, for some at least, to engage in homosexuality activities is a choice. But the love I have for my partner, and the attraction I have felt towards the same-sex since I can remember, is not. I have nothing to prove, but I wait for the day when a scientific study, something like homosexuality developing epigenetically, leaves all of this "choice" business in the past.


As for the article, I was stunned when I originally found out a gay couple in Switzerland could not adopt, but could register their partnership. I am glad to see this is being reformed, for my future or not.
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  #46  
Old 01.04.2013, 22:31
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Re: Swiss edge closer to gay adoption

To me it's very simple. It all boils down to the question "should all humans have the same rights?"

Hell yes. I don't care whether the human in question is gay or straight, pink or blue, male or female.
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  #47  
Old 01.04.2013, 22:35
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Re: Swiss edge closer to gay adoption

Kid's need a home and to belong. Good people adopt/foster. I reckon it's on par with the luck of the draw where and to whom we are born.
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  #48  
Old 01.04.2013, 22:49
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Re: Swiss edge closer to gay adoption

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I am not worried about inflaming bigots - they can burn in hell as far as I am concerned - but I am concerned about the possible effect on the children.
Odile, here's a video from a few years ago (not directly relevant to the thread topic, but definitely relevant to your concern):

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  #49  
Old 01.04.2013, 22:56
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Re: Swiss edge closer to gay adoption

Yes, I remember this wonderful young man and his testimony. He seems hugely strong, confident, balanced and sensitive. Not sure however all children would be able to cope so well.

We know 2 couples who adopted children from South America - and they all 4 say they were so naive to think love was enough to overcome all.
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  #50  
Old 02.04.2013, 00:20
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Re: Swiss edge closer to gay adoption

Us gay men can raise kids just the same as anyone else

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  #51  
Old 02.04.2013, 07:31
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Re: Swiss edge closer to gay adoption

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We know 2 couples who adopted children from South America - and they all 4 say they were so naive to think love was enough to overcome all.
I have adopted siblings from South America as well, and my parents were also somewhat naive in that way, so I am very aware of the potential challenges in this context. However, I think that these problems have more to do with past traumas, resilience and adaptation to changing family dynamics, than with the sexual orientation of the parents.

Also, people who decide to go that route don't "just" adopt - they have to go through a stressful, sometimes long process of going through screening, having outsiders scrutinize their life choices, home visits, loads of paperwork and red tape, and lots of waiting. Anyways, I don't want to derail the thread. Just wanted to say that adoption can be hard work for anyone involved - gay or straight, young or old - but can also lead to happy endings.

J.Marple perfectly summed up my feelings about the original topic, and it's great that some countries have a more open-minded view of a family unit.
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  #52  
Old 02.04.2013, 08:36
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Re: Swiss edge closer to gay adoption

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Explain?
I have known several people who have had long-term relationships (10)+ years with one sex, then long term with the other, then long term with the other, etc.

Tom
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  #53  
Old 02.04.2013, 08:43
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Re: Swiss edge closer to gay adoption

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I have known several people who have had long-term relationships (10)+ years with one sex, then long term with the other, then long term with the other, etc.

Tom
Yes, it is called bisexual. Again, it is not a choice to have attraction to someone regardless of the sex. My friend didn't choose to fall in love with a girl or a guy, it just happened.
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  #54  
Old 02.04.2013, 08:47
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Re: Swiss edge closer to gay adoption

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Yes, it is called bisexual. Again, it is not a choice to have attraction to someone regardless of the sex. My friend didn't choose to fall in love with a girl or a guy, it just happened.
No, bisexual would be interest in both sexes at the same time, in these cases they were only interested in those of one sex at a time, it just changed from time to time.

Tom
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Old 02.04.2013, 08:59
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Re: Swiss edge closer to gay adoption

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No, bisexual would be interest in both sexes at the same time, in these cases they were only interested in those of one sex at a time, it just changed from time to time.

Tom
Bisexual has a more wide ranging definition than what you're limiting it to, but assuming we go with your point, what does this have to do with adoption.
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  #56  
Old 02.04.2013, 09:25
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Re: Swiss edge closer to gay adoption

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No, bisexual would be interest in both sexes at the same time, in these cases they were only interested in those of one sex at a time, it just changed from time to time.

Tom
No, bisexuality means having attraction for both gender in the same time. IT doesn't mean having a double relationship with both gender at the SAME time. One can happily have a fulfilling relationship with a man and when things breaks and relationship is over, one can find the love in someone of the same sex. It is not like someone is going out and look for it. Having an attraction for both sex just double the chance to find a partner regardless of the gender.
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Old 02.04.2013, 09:43
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Re: Swiss edge closer to gay adoption

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Disagree.

For some at least, it's certainly a choice.

Tom
Who would CHOOSE to be gay? Who would choose to have to come out to their parents and family (last I heard, straight people don't have to "come out"), to be discriminated against, to be threatened with their life in certain countries and have to go serious legal gymnastics to adopt a child (moreseo than a hetero couple)? Who chooses this?? You can't be one of the last remaining dinosaurs who seriously thinks someone wakes up one morning and goes, "Hey! Sun is shining and last night was a full moon. Great time to be gay! Can't wait to tell my mom!"
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  #58  
Old 02.04.2013, 09:54
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Re: Swiss edge closer to gay adoption

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Who would CHOOSE to be gay? Who would choose to have to come out to their parents and family (last I heard, straight people don't have to "come out"), to be discriminated against, to be threatened with their life in certain countries and have to go serious legal gymnastics to adopt a child (moreseo than a hetero couple)? Who chooses this?? You can't be one of the last remaining dinosaurs who seriously thinks someone wakes up one morning and goes, "Hey! Sun is shining and last night was a full moon. Great time to be gay! Can't wait to tell my mom!"
Not just that, bisexual people also have a hard time with people who think they can't make their mind or are playing, or seek attention, etc. many just don't understand someone who can be attracted to both gender. Many also believe one who is attracted to both gender has more chances to cheat because never fully happy with one gender.
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  #59  
Old 02.04.2013, 14:38
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Re: Swiss edge closer to gay adoption

A bisexual girl I know insists that us homosexuals/heterosexuals are less evolved.

For me on the other hand there was never any question, I've only been attracted to same sex since I can remember.
Now, I'm ready to believe that you may know people whose sexual preferences changed every time there was a new prime minister in the UK, but I don't understand what it has to do with my right to adopt (which I'm not interested to do anyway, but I happen to know many great people who would, correct: will, be great adoptive parents)
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  #60  
Old 02.04.2013, 14:48
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Re: Swiss edge closer to gay adoption

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I have known several people who have had long-term relationships (10)+ years with one sex, then long term with the other, then long term with the other, etc.

Tom
I know folks like this too, but it was largely an issue of societal pressure. They started in long-term heterosexual relationships, had kids, etc. because that was expected. As societal norms shifted, they felt okay to do what they always felt was right in their hearts, which was to have a same-sex relationship. I don't know any that went back to hetero after same-sex, but that's just my limited world view.
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