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  #61  
Old 02.04.2013, 22:27
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Re: Swiss edge closer to gay adoption

Well aren't we all just getting along great? Except that there is a difference people. I think we can all agree that heteros have the ability to create their own children and that Planet Earth will therefore be relying upon their continued breeding habits to sustain human life. That is the way humans have been created by nurturing a family scenario. Kids need a mom, not just for breast feeding at an early age, but also to share motherly instincts and the warmth only mom can give. They also need a father, lesser so than a mother, if you take a look at single parent families, but a father figure to be respected and loved as the traditional family figurehead (yeah, equality may happen one day).

So where does this leave a gay couple seeking kids for adoption or fostering? Well, one mother or father short of a full house IMO. And before you all chant "dinosaur", I respect every single person's right to indulge in any kind of relationship they like, same sex, opposite sex or a mixture, I could care less. But adopting children as a gay couple? Nope, I'd vote against it.
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  #62  
Old 02.04.2013, 22:55
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Re: Swiss edge closer to gay adoption

Even if we go with your theory of a primordial necessity for a male and female presence in the household (which isn't really supported, and study after study shows that children from same-sex households, while facing challenges, end up just as adjusted as other children), you discount the presence of family members of various sexes in the immediate family. I mean, how many of us were basically raised by our grandmothers? You've moved the goalposts from basic biological capability to this and it's still full of holes. You're entitled to your opinion, of course, and we'll see how people decide to vote when the time comes.
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  #63  
Old 03.04.2013, 08:07
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Re: Swiss edge closer to gay adoption

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how many of us were basically raised by our grandmothers?
No-one I know.

Tom
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  #64  
Old 03.04.2013, 09:46
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Re: Swiss edge closer to gay adoption

Same-sex adoption is one of the few topics where I say "sorry, but the issue is so complex and doesn't involve me so I choose to not voice an opinion".

I think one's sexuality is loose from one's ability to function as a good, caring parent and role model for a child. I'm sure there's some great closeted gay/bisex parents out there who go on to raise well balanced children.

Are un-adopted children better off being raised in an orphanage as compared to being adopted by a same-sex couple? Probably not, and I'm not sure there are studies to substantiate/validate claims one way or the other.

For now, I'm simply not knowledgeable enough in this matter to support and defend an opinion. I actually don't care enough to HAVE an opinion in this case.
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  #65  
Old 03.04.2013, 12:20
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Re: Swiss edge closer to gay adoption

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Are un-adopted children better off being raised in an orphanage as compared to being adopted by a same-sex couple?
The question is more or less irrelevant. Why?

1. Because of the numbers: There are far more people willing to adopt than children in orphanages. The number of children given up for adoption lies around 30 a year in Switzerland. There is absolutely no pressure to expand the circle of people who can adopt.

2. The same goes for International adoptation, still there are more people willing to adopt. Priority is to adopt local. Everybody still has the pictures in head of orphanages in the eastern part of Europe from th 80's and 90's. This has changed a lot as in this countries now you have a growing a middle class who is willing to adopt. International adoption is the last solution.
Also with international adoption you will have to play by the rules of two countries. Even if you would be allowed to adopt in Switzerland as a gay couple you can't in most other countries.


The ones left over in the orphanages are mostly older (10+) and/or have a medical or mental condition. They already come with a history.

Other problems with international adoption brush child trafficking.
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  #66  
Old 03.04.2013, 21:38
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Re: Swiss edge closer to gay adoption

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The ones left over in the orphanages are mostly older (10+) and/or have a medical or mental condition. They already come with a history.

Other problems with international adoption brush child trafficking.
They have medical or mental conditions like the ones mentioned here?
http://www.gaystarnews.com/article/1...y-family290313


These guys adopted a few kids that nobody wanted to adopt because they had been marked as difficult. And one of them had a "mental" issue.
A huge respect is the least they deserve.

Last edited by lewton; 03.04.2013 at 22:02.
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  #67  
Old 03.04.2013, 21:56
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Re: Swiss edge closer to gay adoption

Adoption is difficult under any circumstances. If a gay couple wants to adopt and meets all the requirements, I'm all for it. In a loving family, the child will feel secure and loved. Unfortunately, it's the bigots (adults or children) that make the child feel insecure and freakish who have the greater negative effect on the child.
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  #68  
Old 04.04.2013, 08:45
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Re: Swiss edge closer to gay adoption

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Well aren't we all just getting along great? Except that there is a difference people. I think we can all agree that heteros have the ability to create their own children and that Planet Earth will therefore be relying upon their continued breeding habits to sustain human life. That is the way humans have been created by nurturing a family scenario. Kids need a mom, not just for breast feeding at an early age, but also to share motherly instincts and the warmth only mom can give. They also need a father, lesser so than a mother, if you take a look at single parent families, but a father figure to be respected and loved as the traditional family figurehead (yeah, equality may happen one day).

So where does this leave a gay couple seeking kids for adoption or fostering? Well, one mother or father short of a full house IMO. And before you all chant "dinosaur", I respect every single person's right to indulge in any kind of relationship they like, same sex, opposite sex or a mixture, I could care less. But adopting children as a gay couple? Nope, I'd vote against it.
So - you don't believe in co-parenting?

And for what it,s worth, we have an intern now who grew up with a single dad (mother died when she was 2) and she's just as kind and nurturing as anyone else. My father worked in the mines up North and was gone for long stretches and and there was NO question in our house (my mum) who was boss, even when he came home! My mother was raised by her oldest sister and barely knew her own parents.

Families come in all sorts of shapes, sizes and formats. Not everyone plays on traditional gender stereotypes when they parent and not everyone is suited to either. You can read the AAPs statement on the issue of gay adoption here: http://www.aap.org/en-us/about-the-a...No+local+token

If you want me to send you some of the studies they site, I can. My favourite is the one about how kids of gay couples are more likely to be straight than kids of hetero couples.
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  #69  
Old 04.04.2013, 09:44
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Re: Swiss edge closer to gay adoption

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So - you don't believe in co-parenting?

And for what it,s worth, we have an intern now who grew up with a single dad (mother died when she was 2) and she's just as kind and nurturing as anyone else. My father worked in the mines up North and was gone for long stretches and and there was NO question in our house (my mum) who was boss, even when he came home! My mother was raised by her oldest sister and barely knew her own parents.

Families come in all sorts of shapes, sizes and formats. Not everyone plays on traditional gender stereotypes when they parent and not everyone is suited to either. You can read the AAPs statement on the issue of gay adoption here: http://www.aap.org/en-us/about-the-a...No+local+token

If you want me to send you some of the studies they site, I can. My favourite is the one about how kids of gay couples are more likely to be straight than kids of hetero couples.
Stop trying to reinvent the wheel please...
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Old 04.04.2013, 10:53
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Re: Swiss edge closer to gay adoption

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  #71  
Old 04.04.2013, 11:01
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Re: Swiss edge closer to gay adoption

I feel sorry for the gay couples who will now have to fend off the
"When are you having kids?"
questions that the childless hetros have face on a regular basis.

"Don't you want them? They passed a law now for people like you."
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  #72  
Old 08.04.2013, 21:25
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Re: Swiss edge closer to gay adoption

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Everybody still has the pictures in head of orphanages in the eastern part of Europe from th 80's and 90's. This has changed a lot as in this countries now you have a growing a middle class who is willing to adopt.
Are you sure that these pictures are in the past? Due to the recent law forbidding adoptions of Russian children by the US citizens the topic of the conditions in Russian orphanages and situation with adoption in Russia in general was actively discussed in Russian-speaking Internet earlier this year. And the details are shocking.

As you remarked in your post the local families mostly want younger children (much younger than 10, in fact, because after 10 years in Russian* orphanage any child would have at least a mental trauma) and healthy. But as the children in orphanages are mostly born from alcohol and/or drugs addict parents, many of the children in orphanages have medical and mental conditions. Considering the attitude of the Russian society to handicapped and HIV-positive and very little (if any) help from the state to such families, raising a child with mental or medical conditions in Russia is heroism and an everyday fight with the system. So I can understand why local families are mostly not eager to adopt such children.

* I used the word "Russian" for simplicity, but actually I mean not only Russia, but some other ex-USSR countries as well. The laws could be slightly different in these countries, but the general situation with adoptions and orphanages is rather similar.
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  #73  
Old 08.04.2013, 21:32
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Re: Swiss edge closer to gay adoption

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Well aren't we all just getting along great? Except that there is a difference people. I think we can all agree that heteros have the ability to create their own children and that Planet Earth will therefore be relying upon their continued breeding habits to sustain human life. That is the way humans have been created by nurturing a family scenario. Kids need a mom, not just for breast feeding at an early age, but also to share motherly instincts and the warmth only mom can give. They also need a father, lesser so than a mother, if you take a look at single parent families, but a father figure to be respected and loved as the traditional family figurehead (yeah, equality may happen one day).

So where does this leave a gay couple seeking kids for adoption or fostering? Well, one mother or father short of a full house IMO.
Thanks very much for this idealization of the heterosexual family. The reality has been different for some time now... The gays don't have to be the scape goat of an evolution of heterosexual marriage, sexuality and procreation that they have nothing to do with.
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  #74  
Old 08.04.2013, 21:56
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Re: Swiss edge closer to gay adoption

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Same-sex adoption is one of the few topics where I say "sorry, but the issue is so complex and doesn't involve me so I choose to not voice an opinion". ...
It's an issue that affects, possibly, the whole of society, so it does involve you.

I've a solution to missing either a mum or a dad - have two (gay) couples adopt. Two mums and two dads.

I remember watching "World's strictest parents", where a gay couple took in a disruptive child. Really, it was only one of them that interacted with the girl. I've seldom seen such compassion and love as from that man. It totally changed my view on adoption by gay couples, so long as it done (as with heterosexual or single parent adoption) for the right reasons - the welfare of the child.

I still maintain that best is mum and dad, if it is possible (and I think anyone arguing against that is spouting PC BS). But having one dad, or one mum, or two dads or two mums is far far better than having no parent at all.
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  #75  
Old 08.04.2013, 22:22
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Re: Swiss edge closer to gay adoption

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PC BS
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  #76  
Old 08.04.2013, 22:24
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Re: Swiss edge closer to gay adoption

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I remember watching "World's strictest parents", where a gay couple took in a disruptive child. Really, it was only one of them that interacted with the girl. I've seldom seen such compassion and love as from that man. It totally changed my view on adoption by gay couples, so long as it done (as with heterosexual or single parent adoption) for the right reasons - the welfare of the child.
The name of this TV show looked interesting to me, so decided to learn more about it, and found out that the gay couple which you probably mean (Series 3 Episode 1) at that moment had 5 children (3 adopted and 2 fostered). Wow! No wonder that they know how to deal with children.
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  #77  
Old 09.04.2013, 20:34
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Re: Swiss edge closer to gay adoption

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It's an issue that affects, possibly, the whole of society, so it does involve you.

OK, let me re-phrase: it doesn't involve/affect me enough to care about.
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  #78  
Old 25.04.2013, 06:15
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Re: Swiss edge closer to gay adoption

Can a gay couple bring there surrogate baby back to Switzerland to live with them ???
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