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  #181  
Old 02.04.2012, 00:16
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Re: Racism rife in Switzerland: human rights chief

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...Well, just about every post soviet bloc country had a system of society where the state parented the individual. All the individual had to do was demand their daily bread.
Mkay.

Nope. I understand it is digestible to have history presented in easily classifiable notions. But the reality was different. And, I do not know any post Easter block nationals that would expect state to take care of them. Maybe since they had to fight for everything and had to be patient. And super resourceful without anyone knowing. The demands as you describe them, were years long waiting lists and inability to actually get anything apart from undignified conditions. Officially. Unofficially, people had their quiet and efficient ways.

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Or what about an individual from the US who find in perfectly alright to "milk the system" for their benefit? They come to Switzerland and get frustrated that they flack for trying to milk it.
I also happened to work for a bunch of US universities and other employers. Trying to milk anything was very bad ethics. In fact, I had to plea to be able to get a half day off for a dentist, unpaid. The standard vacation was a week, two weeks off was unheard of. Normal was to take 4-5 days off, max, in order to not block the work for too long. Perfectionism. Total slavery. But super efficient and positive. Good team spirit. Never say "no" or that you "cannot do something". It sounds very different than what you wrote about.

We all have different ways to stereotype, but saying people from either yank lands or post soviet are certain ways or work certain way...a mental shortcut.
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  #182  
Old 02.04.2012, 09:48
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Re: Racism rife in Switzerland: human rights chief

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from what I can gather, the Swiss generally don't like being lumped into a big basket of stereotypes. pretty much just like the rest of us.


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Nope. I understand it is digestible to have history presented in easily classifiable notions. But the reality was different.
....
We all have different ways to stereotype, but saying people from either yank lands or post soviet are certain ways or work certain way...a mental shortcut.

Yeah, you're right those are stereotypes I pulled out of thin air. I could have chosen a american cowboy or something else. I was trying to contrast cultural styles that conflict with Swiss mentalities.
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  #183  
Old 02.04.2012, 10:34
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Re: Racism rife in Switzerland: human rights chief

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Odile, most doctors here are German, because the Swiss system doesn't produce enough high-skilled labor.
Nonsense, it's because they all have moved to Ticino!

Tom
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  #184  
Old 02.04.2012, 11:04
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Re: Racism rife in Switzerland: human rights chief

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Yeah, you're right those are stereotypes I pulled out of thin air. I could have chosen a american cowboy or something else. I was trying to contrast cultural styles that conflict with Swiss mentalities.


although the US does indeed have a welfare system, if anything the stereotype of Americans is that all we do is work. and of course spend our money on McDonald's, Justin Bieber records and pet rocks. it's the reason I generally try to avoid my fellow gringos over here, all they want to do is talk about work and how many vacations they are missing.

on top of that, you clearly missed my point - in an effort to defend what you consider to be the "Swiss mentality", you stereotyped half of Europe, the US and Switzerland. which seems rather ironic given the topic of the thread.

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  #185  
Old 02.04.2012, 11:22
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Re: Racism rife in Switzerland: human rights chief

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although the US does indeed have a welfare system, if anything the stereotype of Americans is that all we do is work. and of course spend our money on McDonald's, Justin Bieber records and pet rocks. it's the reason I generally try to avoid my fellow gringos over here, all they want to do is talk about work and how many vacations they are missing.

on top of that, you clearly missed my point - in an effort to defend what you consider to be the "Swiss mentality", you stereotyped half of Europe, the US and Switzerland. which seems rather ironic given the topic of the thread.


My point is the Swiss are suspicious that non-Swiss may not uphold what in their mind is "Swiss Quality". So yes, the non-Swiss are stereotyped and are kept at a distance.
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  #186  
Old 02.04.2012, 11:28
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Re: Racism rife in Switzerland: human rights chief

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My point is the Swiss are suspicious that non-Swiss may not uphold what in their mind is "Swiss Quality". So yes, the non-Swiss are stereotyped and are kept at a distance.
so you're saying you agree with the dude from the ECHR?

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  #187  
Old 02.04.2012, 11:30
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Re: Racism rife in Switzerland: human rights chief

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and of course spend our money .............and pet rocks. it's the reason I generally try to avoid my fellow gringos over here, all they want to do is talk about work and how many vacations they are missing.
Hey, pet rocks are awesome!!
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  #188  
Old 02.04.2012, 11:32
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Re: Racism rife in Switzerland: human rights chief

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Hey, pet rocks are awesome!!
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  #189  
Old 02.04.2012, 12:05
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Re: Racism rife in Switzerland: human rights chief

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so you're saying you agree with the dude from the ECHR?


The guy from the ECHR is not saying anything new nor important. It seems more like he just needed to appear like he is performing some official function. The situation is too complex for a letter by an inept bureaucrat to capture.

There are things that can be construed as racism, but may not be racism at all. At least not racism as defined as hate of a particular race. Maybe with racial profiling, I can see that. But then racial profiling occurs everywhere. Taxi cab drivers in NYC routinely practice racial profiling out of fear for their own safety. I don't see an ECHR report about it.

In the case of the Swiss, yes, I do agree with some of their desires to safeguard and protect their society. But no, I don't agree with the psychological tactics of the far-right campaigns. Many Swiss don't.
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  #190  
Old 02.04.2012, 12:16
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Re: Racism rife in Switzerland: human rights chief

As far as racism is concerned, i remember the day i left my country(I'm African and black) . At the airport my aunt told me to be careful and TO NOT marry a white girl. Fortunately, my mother is not like her and is color blind.
But i can assure you that racism(or ignorance) exists everywhere even in Africa. It's up to you, to educate them whenever you talk to them(and i know it's possible).


When i arrived in Italy to study engineering, in my residence(a private catholic) we were 2 blacks guys. Students(one guy in particular) was amazed to know that in my country we had Playstation, Nintendo 64, Gameboy, etc. he felt off his chair when i told him i had done my driving license when i was 18 in Africa. Simply unbelievable for him.

But you know what? at the end of the year he told me that after knowing me, he now looks at African people with different eyes. be a positive example, be an ambassador, and other people of your same race will benefit from it. Remember anyway that you can not always win.

USA(they are far from united) and UK are hardly a model for Switzerland to follow. may be Canada. but still...
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  #191  
Old 02.04.2012, 12:41
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Re: Racism rife in Switzerland: human rights chief

Off topic.
I don't know where the assumption of the banks being the only Swiss industry comes from. But it is false.


In the ranking listing the top 11 countries with the the top 500 corporations worldwide as measured by revenue(Fortune Global 500), Switzerland is 7th(after United Kingdom, Germany, France, China, Japan and United states).

The amazing thing is that Switzerand has 15 companies in the top 500 corporations worlwide despite its relatively small population.

1. United States ---- 133 (313,286,000 inhabitants)
2. Japan ----------- 68 (127,960,000 inhabitants)
3. China --------- 61 (1,339,724,852 inhabitants)
4. France ---------- 35 (65,350,000 inhabitants)
5. Germany -------- 34 (81,799,600 inhabitants)
6. United Kingdom ----- 30 (62,262,000 inhabitants)
7. Switzerland ------ 15 (7,866,500 inhabitants)
8. South Korea --------- 14 (48,875,000 inhabitants)
9. Netherlands ---------- 12 (16,847,007 inhabitants)
10. Canada ------------ 11 (34,799,000 inhabitants)
11. Italy -------------- 10 (60,681,514 inhabitants)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fortune_Global_500


Spin-off companies from ETH and EPFL are created every single year. In Italy it doesn't happen. In Germany(my sisters are studying there) it does but not like in Switzerland.
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  #192  
Old 02.04.2012, 13:11
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Re: Racism rife in Switzerland: human rights chief

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Off topic.
I don't know where the assumption of the banks being the only Swiss industry comes from. But it is false.

Its more Kafkaesque to paint a picture of a racist country controlled by an evil banking system, oppressing people. Chocolate factories and Umpa Lumpas would be harder to take seriously.
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  #193  
Old 02.04.2012, 13:55
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Re: Racism rife in Switzerland: human rights chief

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Its more Kafkaesque to paint a picture of a racist country controlled by an evil banking system, oppressing people.
No one is more evil than Goldman Sachs, which with their software can manipulate the markets..

Goldman Sachs market manipulating software stolen by Sergey Aleynikov

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEOlv8paQTo

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Chocolate factories and Umpa Lumpas would be harder to take seriously.
I know what you mean. But i think it's difficult to know about the many industrial Swiss companies if you are not into engineering(mechanical) or chemistry.
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  #194  
Old 02.04.2012, 18:44
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Re: Racism rife in Switzerland: human rights chief

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Interesting as all the news analysis I read about it seemed to suggest it had more to do with the burden on the employer and possibly there being fewer jobs as a result leading to higher unemployment.
Arguments that doubtlessly all have some value of their own, but maybe served to rationalise the guilt trip?
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  #195  
Old 02.04.2012, 19:50
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Re: Racism rife in Switzerland: human rights chief

to be honest I did not feel racism at all until this moment.

Lets see
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  #196  
Old 02.04.2012, 19:54
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Re: Racism rife in Switzerland: human rights chief

Well Vaud people showed the UDC that their ideas are not wanted - the only UDC candidate in Romandie was got rid off, and now they have a majority of women on the executive and no right-wing representation at all.
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  #197  
Old 02.04.2012, 20:43
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Re: Racism rife in Switzerland: human rights chief

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Off topic.
I don't know where the assumption of the banks being the only Swiss industry comes from. But it is false.


In the ranking listing the top 11 countries with the the top 500 corporations worldwide as measured by revenue(Fortune Global 500), Switzerland is 7th(after United Kingdom, Germany, France, China, Japan and United states).

The amazing thing is that Switzerand has 15 companies in the top 500 corporations worlwide despite its relatively small population.

1. United States ---- 133 (313,286,000 inhabitants)
2. Japan ----------- 68 (127,960,000 inhabitants)
3. China --------- 61 (1,339,724,852 inhabitants)
4. France ---------- 35 (65,350,000 inhabitants)
5. Germany -------- 34 (81,799,600 inhabitants)
6. United Kingdom ----- 30 (62,262,000 inhabitants)
7. Switzerland ------ 15 (7,866,500 inhabitants)
8. South Korea --------- 14 (48,875,000 inhabitants)
9. Netherlands ---------- 12 (16,847,007 inhabitants)
10. Canada ------------ 11 (34,799,000 inhabitants)
11. Italy -------------- 10 (60,681,514 inhabitants)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fortune_Global_500


Spin-off companies from ETH and EPFL are created every single year. In Italy it doesn't happen. In Germany(my sisters are studying there) it does but not like in Switzerland.
those corporations "earn" that revenue inside the Alps solely as a matter of tax planning. this is one of the things that has authorities in Italy and Spain in particular poking around.



I have previously posted that I have not found Switzerland to be "racist" at all. there is certainly some truth to the statement that the Swiss distrust everybody, but they do so without bias. from what I have seen, folks who make an honest effort to "integrate" or at least are respectful of local customs and culture are all treated the same, regardless of race.

there is also some truth to the statement, though, that more could be done to encourage "integration".
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  #198  
Old 02.04.2012, 21:02
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Re: Racism rife in Switzerland: human rights chief

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Well Vaud people showed the UDC that their ideas are not wanted - the only UDC candidate in Romandie was got rid off, and now they have a majority of women on the executive and no right-wing representation at all.

While there ARE racists among the SVP/UDC people, I would NOT describe that party as a racist party. The other way round, the problem of their party in the Romandie is not so much their ideas but their mentality which is "bodeständig tüütsch-schwiizerisch". Which in fact also is the reason for their problems in most cities in the "Alémanique". There is a particular party in Geneva, the MCG, which sounds to be even to the right of the UDC/SVP and proves that rightwing-ideas in the Romandie have a market.

The bad results they got in the Romandie would not have been so difficult for the SVP, had they not also got disastrous results in St. Gallen, Zürich, Aargau and other Cantons. Their party under Blocher during 30 years moved more and more to the right, and it looks as if they landed up in a kind of "overkill-position"
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  #199  
Old 02.04.2012, 21:29
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Re: Racism rife in Switzerland: human rights chief

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those corporations "earn" that revenue inside the Alps solely as a matter of tax planning. this is one of the things that has authorities in Italy and Spain in particular poking around.
Interesting, I didn't know that Nestle, Roche, Novartis, ABB, Adecco, UBS,Credit Swiss, Swiss Re, Zurich Financial Services etc. were actually Spanish and Italian companies that have moved their headquarters to Switzerland for tax reasons.
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Old 02.04.2012, 21:34
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Re: Racism rife in Switzerland: human rights chief

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When i arrived in Italy to study engineering, in my residence(a private catholic) we were 2 blacks guys. Students(one guy in particular) was amazed to know that in my country we had Playstation, Nintendo 64, Gameboy, etc. he felt off his chair when i told him i had done my driving license when i was 18 in Africa. Simply unbelievable for him.
I was actually taught French at school by a guy from Senegal who had won an award for being the best on French grammar. I think of several thousand people from across the French-speaking world who did that test there were only three who had zero errors and he was one of them. None of those three was French by the way.
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