Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Swiss politics/news  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #241  
Old 16.04.2012, 17:55
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Zurich
Posts: 87
Groaned at 5 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 48 Times in 17 Posts
DRJC is considered knowledgeableDRJC is considered knowledgeableDRJC is considered knowledgeable
Re: Racism rife in Switzerland: human rights chief

Why is it even a debate? Of course the place is racist, as a newbie to the country you work that out in your first week.

Then because you are white, skilled and British and you realise the Swiss like you because you are British you realise its not going to be a problem for you. So you stop giving a rats arse about it and get back to the important things like making money.

Whether its right or wrong is irrelevent. It just is.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank DRJC for this useful post:
The following 3 users groan at DRJC for this post:
  #242  
Old 16.04.2012, 19:08
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 1,983
Groaned at 69 Times in 52 Posts
Thanked 5,074 Times in 1,802 Posts
crazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Racism rife in Switzerland: human rights chief

Quote:
View Post
Why is it even a debate? Of course the place is racist, as a newbie to the country you work that out in your first week.

Then because you are white, skilled and British and you realise the Swiss like you because you are British you realise its not going to be a problem for you. So you stop giving a rats arse about it and get back to the important things like making money.

Whether its right or wrong is irrelevent. It just is.
or, more accurately, because you are white, skilled and British you are not accustomed to picking up the body language and other cues or reading between the lines.

Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank crazygringo for this useful post:
  #243  
Old 16.04.2012, 23:03
Wollishofener's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Glattbrugg
Posts: 18,978
Groaned at 332 Times in 257 Posts
Thanked 11,715 Times in 6,858 Posts
Wollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Racism rife in Switzerland: human rights chief

Quote:
View Post
Why is it even a debate? Of course the place is racist, as a newbie to the country you work that out in your first week.

Then because you are white, skilled and British and you realise the Swiss like you because you are British you realise its not going to be a problem for you. So you stop giving a rats arse about it and get back to the important things like making money.

Whether its right or wrong is irrelevent. It just is.
The debate is not whether there is racism, existing in Switzerland or not, as there is no reason why what exists in Italy, Austria, France and Germany should not also be in evidence in Switzerland.

The debate was/is about the difference between a precise but differentiating report of that EU-man and a sensationalist article.

Racism and racist mania in Europe grew over centuries and you cannot hope to have that thing eradicated within some decades now. In case of Switzerland it sometimes is necessary to make it clear that Switzerland unfortunately is a member of that club. It did become extreme in the former GDR a decade or a bit more ago, but that was just the tip of the iceberg. More or less racist parties from the North Cape to Calabria regularily get up to 20% of the votes, and big parties with more or less racist "wings" up to 30%

Already here and now, I request you to abstain from Nicolaus tales about a U.K. where racism has fully and totally disappeared
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Wollishofener for this useful post:
  #244  
Old 17.04.2012, 05:38
OSueco's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Aargau
Posts: 1,466
Groaned at 317 Times in 193 Posts
Thanked 1,265 Times in 624 Posts
OSueco has a reputation beyond reputeOSueco has a reputation beyond reputeOSueco has a reputation beyond reputeOSueco has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Racism rife in Switzerland: human rights chief

Quote:
View Post
Nah, the letter from Hammarberg was to the point.

The article was badly written and sensationalist. I can see why you would like it though
sorry my bad...yeah the article was poor but the writing from Hammarberg was excellent! Probably Switzerland will react with "no gripen!!!!" waaahhh
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank OSueco for this useful post:
  #245  
Old 17.04.2012, 08:31
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Swiss Confederation
Posts: 11,501
Groaned at 409 Times in 335 Posts
Thanked 17,648 Times in 8,925 Posts
greenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Racism rife in Switzerland: human rights chief

Quote:
View Post
This person attacked us verbally just because of the skin of my skin (I am latin american). I did not have to try speaking before she called us a "pig pack of foreigners", so it's not about mastering or not the dialect. It's pure xenophobia.

This is an issue of human rights (one can find it when reading the universal declaration of human rights). Swiss law comes into play in case citizen needs protection.

I disagree with the passive attitude of trying to lower your head to avoid being pointed at, rather than proactively improving this society.
I am yet to encounter self confident, perfectly sane and balanced people who would shout such things at people who seem "foreigners"... Feel pitty for her, such a miserable old woman.

It is not about lowering your head, it is about choosing your battles..
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank greenmount for this useful post:
  #246  
Old 17.04.2012, 08:37
Assassin's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Chasing clouds
Posts: 4,023
Groaned at 180 Times in 123 Posts
Thanked 11,558 Times in 3,148 Posts
Assassin has a reputation beyond reputeAssassin has a reputation beyond reputeAssassin has a reputation beyond reputeAssassin has a reputation beyond reputeAssassin has a reputation beyond reputeAssassin has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Racism rife in Switzerland: human rights chief

Quote:
View Post
Racism and racist mania in Europe grew over centuries and you cannot hope to have that thing eradicated within some decades now.
Wrong. As long as different creeds and cultures have met or even mixed there has been racism. If we weren't different colors we'd align ourselves for or against those with freckles, hair color or their breakfast cereal preference. As a race we like to "compartmentalize" everything that we come into contact with, that includes other humans. It's how we're designed. That doesn't give anyone the right to mistreat or judge other races, but we do have different mental images and that's not a big deal IMO.
Reply With Quote
The following 6 users would like to thank Assassin for this useful post:
  #247  
Old 17.04.2012, 09:35
Uncle Max's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Züri
Posts: 7,553
Groaned at 164 Times in 105 Posts
Thanked 8,424 Times in 3,486 Posts
Uncle Max has a reputation beyond reputeUncle Max has a reputation beyond reputeUncle Max has a reputation beyond reputeUncle Max has a reputation beyond reputeUncle Max has a reputation beyond reputeUncle Max has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Racism rife in Switzerland: human rights chief

There's only one race, dude.
Reply With Quote
  #248  
Old 17.04.2012, 12:15
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Zurich
Posts: 87
Groaned at 5 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 48 Times in 17 Posts
DRJC is considered knowledgeableDRJC is considered knowledgeableDRJC is considered knowledgeable
Re: Racism rife in Switzerland: human rights chief

Quote:
View Post

Already here and now, I request you to abstain from Nicolaus tales about a U.K. where racism has fully and totally disappeared
Eh? Who cares about the UK? The report was about Switzerland, not the UK. The refreshing thing about Swiss racism is that nobody really cares about it because its far less important than making money.
Reply With Quote
  #249  
Old 17.04.2012, 14:52
Assassin's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Chasing clouds
Posts: 4,023
Groaned at 180 Times in 123 Posts
Thanked 11,558 Times in 3,148 Posts
Assassin has a reputation beyond reputeAssassin has a reputation beyond reputeAssassin has a reputation beyond reputeAssassin has a reputation beyond reputeAssassin has a reputation beyond reputeAssassin has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Racism rife in Switzerland: human rights chief

Quote:
View Post
Eh? Who cares about the UK? The report was about Switzerland, not the UK. The refreshing thing about Swiss racism is that nobody really cares about it because its far less important than making money.
OK, just testing your theory then. How much would you charge to beat the living crap out of my white neighbor and his slightly tanned girlfriend?
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Assassin for this useful post:
  #250  
Old 17.04.2012, 15:50
cannut's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: canada
Posts: 6,914
Groaned at 182 Times in 142 Posts
Thanked 6,191 Times in 3,404 Posts
cannut has a reputation beyond reputecannut has a reputation beyond reputecannut has a reputation beyond reputecannut has a reputation beyond reputecannut has a reputation beyond reputecannut has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Racism rife in Switzerland: human rights chief

Quote:
View Post
Wrong. As long as different creeds and cultures have met or even mixed there has been racism. If we weren't different colors we'd align ourselves for or against those with freckles, hair color or their breakfast cereal preference. As a race we like to "compartmentalize" everything that we come into contact with, that includes other humans. It's how we're designed. That doesn't give anyone the right to mistreat or judge other races, but we do have different mental images and that's not a big deal IMO.
Yeap daed on :when I was a kid we picked on other kids with glasse and red hair .I remeber one had autisme and a clumpfoot.I still feel sorry for him
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank cannut for this useful post:
  #251  
Old 17.04.2012, 15:57
Wollishofener's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Glattbrugg
Posts: 18,978
Groaned at 332 Times in 257 Posts
Thanked 11,715 Times in 6,858 Posts
Wollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Racism rife in Switzerland: human rights chief

Quote:
View Post
Wrong. As long as different creeds and cultures have met or even mixed there has been racism. If we weren't different colors we'd align ourselves for or against those with freckles, hair color or their breakfast cereal preference. As a race we like to "compartmentalize" everything that we come into contact with, that includes other humans. It's how we're designed. That doesn't give anyone the right to mistreat or judge other races, but we do have different mental images and that's not a big deal IMO.
Xenophobia is the cousin of racism. In a way the same mentality behind both illnesses. In practical terms, in Zürich locally, in the 1950ies and 60ies when there were practically no "Blacks" in evidence, Italians and Turks (etc) had to take some rather harsh xenophobia. Peopole of such "looks" for instance might be barred from visiting a schoolfriend when the "lady" judged "ich will nöd das mini Fründinnen findet, min Sohn gänge mit ämö Tschingg", or that in a queue to check/listen a record one gay at the top of the queue loudly declared "Tschingge hinnä aschtaa" without being challenged and suddenly the "addressed" chaps found themselves at the end of the line. Time for both to get out of Jelmoli and move over to the competition. For the "Mediterraneans" things vastly improved with the arrival of Blacks, Tamils, etc, who then became the focus of the "pure" people
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Wollishofener for this useful post:
  #252  
Old 17.04.2012, 16:04
Wollishofener's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Glattbrugg
Posts: 18,978
Groaned at 332 Times in 257 Posts
Thanked 11,715 Times in 6,858 Posts
Wollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Racism rife in Switzerland: human rights chief

Quote:
View Post
Eh? Who cares about the UK? The report was about Switzerland, not the UK. The refreshing thing about Swiss racism is that nobody really cares about it because its far less important than making money.
Hammarberg quite clearly pointed to legal rules (freedom to make propganda for popular votes in a style he regards as racist, for example) which ought indeed be improved, but of course without reducing democracy and freedom. Those in charge DO care about it, but for a majority of the people who are neither racists nor lawyers, there is not so much to be done.

And what about the UK ? I on this (and the other) forum "heard" Brits loudly and unashamedly declaring that racism in the UK had completely faded away into history, and generally detest adventourous stories of scarce likellihood
Reply With Quote
  #253  
Old 18.04.2012, 13:18
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Zurich
Posts: 87
Groaned at 5 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 48 Times in 17 Posts
DRJC is considered knowledgeableDRJC is considered knowledgeableDRJC is considered knowledgeable
Re: Racism rife in Switzerland: human rights chief

Quote:
View Post
OK, just testing your theory then. How much would you charge to beat the living crap out of my white neighbor and his slightly tanned girlfriend?
A camel and 20p?
Reply With Quote
  #254  
Old 18.04.2012, 20:10
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Basel
Posts: 57
Groaned at 8 Times in 5 Posts
Thanked 33 Times in 27 Posts
sirwilliamhill has earned some respectsirwilliamhill has earned some respect
Re: Racism rife in Switzerland: human rights chief

Firstly i would like to point out that many Swiss people are clearly bright,kind and open to all peoples of the world.


Some Swiss (sadly quite alot in my opinion) are like backward stranger hating village idiots when it comes to accepting people,especially black people.

The general level of straightness,conservatism and anti-intergration feeling is depressing.

Some Swiss want all foriegners to know their place,speak when they`re spoken to and not to get any ideas above their auslander station.

They can be quite covert,but underneath there are some right spiteful nazi b******* amongst em.

Many of em are like scared little rabbits,terrified of non Swissness.

Some of them have a disgusting arrogance too and they tend to actually look down on auslanders.

I repeat that i do not consider all Swiss people like this,but in my opinion there are plenty.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank sirwilliamhill for this useful post:
The following 2 users groan at sirwilliamhill for this post:
  #255  
Old 18.04.2012, 21:43
cannut's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: canada
Posts: 6,914
Groaned at 182 Times in 142 Posts
Thanked 6,191 Times in 3,404 Posts
cannut has a reputation beyond reputecannut has a reputation beyond reputecannut has a reputation beyond reputecannut has a reputation beyond reputecannut has a reputation beyond reputecannut has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Racism rife in Switzerland: human rights chief

Quote:
View Post
Firstly i would like to point out that many Swiss people are clearly bright,kind and open to all peoples of the world.


Some Swiss (sadly quite alot in my opinion) are like backward stranger hating village idiots when it comes to accepting people,especially black people.

The general level of straightness,conservatism and anti-intergration feeling is depressing.

Some Swiss want all foriegners to know their place,speak when they`re spoken to and not to get any ideas above their auslander station.

They can be quite covert,but underneath there are some right spiteful nazi b******* amongst em.

Many of em are like scared little rabbits,terrified of non Swissness.

Some of them have a disgusting arrogance too and they tend to actually look down on auslanders.

I repeat that i do not consider all Swiss people like this,but in my opinion there are plenty.
Interesting quotes
Reply With Quote
  #256  
Old 19.04.2012, 00:57
Wollishofener's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Glattbrugg
Posts: 18,978
Groaned at 332 Times in 257 Posts
Thanked 11,715 Times in 6,858 Posts
Wollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Racism rife in Switzerland: human rights chief

Quote:
View Post
The general level of straightness,conservatism and anti-intergration feeling is depressing.
.
-
but as countless public votes have shown, there is a clear majority in favour of integration, of progress and of modernisation

Quote:
View Post
there are some right spiteful nazi b******* amongst em.
.
-
there in the 1930ies was a sizeable "National Front" known as "D'Fröntler". They were prohibited by law at a certain moment and by 1945 just had faded away. BUT does anybody believe they really had disappeared. So, to make it plainly clear, there were and beyond doubt still are, just as in the neighbour countries, some "eternal Nazis" by spirit around

To say it in Swiss German "Du söttisch nöd um dä heissi Brei umerede"
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Wollishofener for this useful post:
  #257  
Old 19.04.2012, 14:48
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Zurich
Posts: 14
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 15 Times in 5 Posts
Idosan has become a little unpopularIdosan has become a little unpopular
Re: Racism rife in Switzerland: human rights chief

Not all Swiss people, but handful number of Swiss people could go to any length in relating to you as a human being and these are the handful wonderful Swiss people who have moved around the world and understand what auslander experience, because they have been in your position in the past. Also, highly educated Swiss people see no difference between them and the auslander, they just want relate to you and carry on with their business, that is all. I have experienced a lot within the last few weeks that I arrived here in Switzerland. at one occassion I had to threat to call the Police and get reference number, also threat to sue the restaurant in the Law Court. This actually made them to behave themselves and dealt with my matter very quickly. I actually promised them that I would go ahead and sue them for spoling my dinner, but how long do i have to do that, when I have tons of work to do for my living. It is just obsord and uncall for.
Do not give up, challenge any unwelcome behaviour, call the Police if necessary and make sure you have reference number from the Police. Process your complain through the company, if it is company, and if it is individual, do the same, complain to the Police in case of individual and get witness around, let the Police get the details of the third party for Court Summon.
Good luck


Quote:
View Post
Firstly i would like to point out that many Swiss people are clearly bright,kind and open to all peoples of the world.


Some Swiss (sadly quite alot in my opinion) are like backward stranger hating village idiots when it comes to accepting people,especially black people.

The general level of straightness,conservatism and anti-intergration feeling is depressing.

Some Swiss want all foriegners to know their place,speak when they`re spoken to and not to get any ideas above their auslander station.

They can be quite covert,but underneath there are some right spiteful nazi b******* amongst em.

Many of em are like scared little rabbits,terrified of non Swissness.

Some of them have a disgusting arrogance too and they tend to actually look down on auslanders.

I repeat that i do not consider all Swiss people like this,but in my opinion there are plenty.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Idosan for this useful post:
  #258  
Old 20.04.2012, 16:03
cannut's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: canada
Posts: 6,914
Groaned at 182 Times in 142 Posts
Thanked 6,191 Times in 3,404 Posts
cannut has a reputation beyond reputecannut has a reputation beyond reputecannut has a reputation beyond reputecannut has a reputation beyond reputecannut has a reputation beyond reputecannut has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Racism rife in Switzerland: human rights chief

Quote:
View Post
Not all Swiss people, but handful number of Swiss people could go to any length in relating to you as a human being and these are the handful wonderful Swiss people who have moved around the world and understand what auslander experience, because they have been in your position in the past. Also, highly educated Swiss people see no difference between them and the auslander, they just want relate to you and carry on with their business, that is all. I have experienced a lot within the last few weeks that I arrived here in Switzerland. at one occassion I had to threat to call the Police and get reference number, also threat to sue the restaurant in the
Good luck
I am not sure if I am wonderful,but I agree with the rest of the sentence
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank cannut for this useful post:
  #259  
Old 20.04.2012, 16:20
simon_ch's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 2,390
Groaned at 128 Times in 76 Posts
Thanked 3,488 Times in 1,377 Posts
simon_ch has a reputation beyond reputesimon_ch has a reputation beyond reputesimon_ch has a reputation beyond reputesimon_ch has a reputation beyond reputesimon_ch has a reputation beyond reputesimon_ch has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Racism rife in Switzerland: human rights chief

People are people the world over, stop being such drama queens and focus on the good people.
Reply With Quote
The following 6 users would like to thank simon_ch for this useful post:
  #260  
Old 21.04.2012, 11:08
Wollishofener's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Glattbrugg
Posts: 18,978
Groaned at 332 Times in 257 Posts
Thanked 11,715 Times in 6,858 Posts
Wollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Racism rife in Switzerland: human rights chief

Quote:
View Post
Not all Swiss people, but handful number of Swiss people could go to any length in relating to you as a human being and these are the handful wonderful Swiss people who have moved around the world and understand what auslander experience, because they have been in your position in the past. Also, highly educated Swiss people see no difference between them and the auslander, they just want relate to you and carry on with their business, that is all. I have experienced a lot within the last few weeks that I arrived here in Switzerland. at one occassion I had to threat to call the Police and get reference number, also threat to sue the restaurant in the Law Court. This actually made them to behave themselves and dealt with my matter very quickly. I actually promised them that I would go ahead and sue them for spoling my dinner, but how long do i have to do that, when I have tons of work to do for my living. It is just obsord and uncall for.
Do not give up, challenge any unwelcome behaviour, call the Police if necessary and make sure you have reference number from the Police. Process your complain through the company, if it is company, and if it is individual, do the same, complain to the Police in case of individual and get witness around, let the Police get the details of the third party for Court Summon.
Good luck
While most people here will relate to you "as a human being" . To discuss matters with xenophobes and/or racists in restaurants however is a hopeless case. The way to deal with them is to get out of their locality and never go there again. I mean, if you have to achieve some decent behaviours from their side by the threat of legal action you cannot feel well in such a place ever. I am in favour of a pragmatic approach to such things and against trying to be a "hero". I actually physically feel xenophobism when entering such a place here and am out as fast as "Speedy Gonzalez". There are enough competitors who will welcome you in a normal way. And it may be added that xenophobe/racist places here tend to disappear within a few years. There at the corner Bahnhofplatz/Löwenstrasse where there now is a Chinese place for years was a widely popular restaurant. Then suddenly, the local "chief" gave instructions to his staff no longer to serve "Arabs etc", an instruction which was fully practiced immediately. It was reported in the media and so also a good part of the Swiss clientele aboided the place, so that it met its end within a year. There in Zch-Seefeld was a popular and well known "Wienerwald"-restaurant. But at a certain day, they started to refuse serving Blacks. I know of such an incident when they did do so, and as a result more than a dozen CH-nationals got up and left (some paid and left and others simply left). It got into the press, and the "Wienerwald" disappeared within less than two years.

If you want to report the incident, do not report to the police but send an Email (in German or English) to Blick and Tages Anzeiger and explain precisely what had happened. THIS is how to do it

Last edited by Wollishofener; 21.04.2012 at 14:35.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Wollishofener for this useful post:
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT +2. The time now is 01:35.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0