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Old 29.03.2012, 10:06
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Switzerland's government needs to do much more to tackle rising racism and xenophobia, a Commissioner from the European Council on Human Rights said in a letter to the Swiss forign ministry.

Read the full article: Racism rife in Switzerland: human rights chief
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Old 29.03.2012, 13:19
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Re: Racism rife in Switzerland: human rights chief

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Switzerland's government needs to do much more to tackle rising racism and xenophobia, a Commissioner from the European Council on Human Rights said in a letter to the Swiss forign ministry.

Read the full article: Racism rife in Switzerland: human rights chief
I believe the issue here is, that it is a systematic racism ingrained in the culture because this counrty has not been exposed to "real" immigration issues like others and was always shielded by its international insignificance. For instance, I read an article yesterday evening about the "funny" train conductor. It stated that the whole train was laughing except 2 Indians, because they probably didn't understand German. Why would the Indians not be able to understand the language? It could be, that they're actually Swiss but didn't find the jokes funny IMO. This for instance, is not being overly politically correct, but is rather a fine example of racism in connection with culturals attitudes. Again, my sentiments are, that Switzerland is stuck in the 70s because of its lack of international relevance possibly supported by its banking secrecy.
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Old 29.03.2012, 13:19
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Re: Racism rife in Switzerland: human rights chief

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Switzerland's government needs to do much more to tackle rising racism and xenophobia, a Commissioner from the European Council on Human Rights said in a letter to the Swiss forign ministry.

Read the full article: Racism rife in Switzerland: human rights chief
How is the Local a newbie? Actually that's quite appropriate, the poster probably doesn't even live in Switzerland, but likes to impose their view of Switzerland from abroad.

Why doesn't the Local summarise the Swiss Govt response in the intro, in addition to the Human Rights Chief summary?

Oh I forgot, that would be BALANCED.

Perhaps "The Local" is a deliberate anachronism....
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Old 29.03.2012, 13:21
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Re: Racism rife in Switzerland: human rights chief

Reading the actual letter by the commissioner is quite illuminating:
https://wcd.coe.int/com.instranet.In...875500&Usage=2

Nothing about racism "rife" in Switzerland instead merely highlighting where in his opinion there could be room for improvement...
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Old 29.03.2012, 13:27
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Re: Racism rife in Switzerland: human rights chief

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I believe the issue here is, that it is a systematic racism ingrained in the culture because this counrty has not been exposed to "real" immigration issues like others and was always shielded by its international insignificance. For instance, I read an article yesterday evening about the "funny" train conductor. It stated that the whole train was laughing except 2 Indians, because they probably didn't understand German. Why would the Indians not be able to understand the language? It could be, that they're actually Swiss but didn't find the jokes funny IMO. This for instance, is not being overly politically correct, but is rather a fine example of racism in connection with culturals attitudes. Again, my sentiments are, that Switzerland is stuck in the 70s because of its lack of international relevance possibly supported by its banking secrecy.
I think you misunderstand racism. Racism is a level 2 discrimination so for example regardless of your citizenship, you are discriminated against.
EG the US Citizens good enough to fight in WW2 for the US, but not to vote at home.

Switzerland hasn't got there yet which the EU doesn't understand.

Switzerland still has an issue with immigration regardless of race, even immigration from the EU where they've signed a bilateral almost 10 years ago now.

I'm not saying there is no racism, but the complaint targeted specifically political campaigning, which reflects popular culture. And popular culture is worried about repeating the mass immigration mistakes made elsewhere.

The article also doesn't say anything about what the complainant is doing inside the EU which is also hardly perfect. You'd think problems in 27 EU countries would keep one busy. But I guess it's easier to go outside and compare. Sound familiar?
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Old 29.03.2012, 13:29
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Re: Racism rife in Switzerland: human rights chief

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I believe the issue here is, that it is a systematic racism ingrained in the culture because this counrty has not been exposed to "real" immigration issues like others and was always shielded by its international insignificance. For instance, I read an article yesterday evening about the "funny" train conductor. It stated that the whole train was laughing except 2 Indians, because they probably didn't understand German. Why would the Indians not be able to understand the language? It could be, that they're actually Swiss but didn't find the jokes funny IMO.
I would read that with a huge grain of salt. Who says the two Indians were the only ones not to laugh? Did somebody walk through the train and check who was laughing? Did somebody study CCTV coverage of every single person on the train? Or is this a subjective opinion derived from a non-representative observation of one small part of the train? Did anybody count how many foreigners on the train did laugh? If the same happened in the UK, would anybody be insinuating the joke (or teh culture) was racist just because two Indians didn't think it was funny? Where is this heading?
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Old 29.03.2012, 13:30
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Re: Racism rife in Switzerland: human rights chief

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I think you misunderstand racism. Racism is a level 2 discrimination so for example regardless of your citizenship, you are discriminated against.
EG the US Citizens good enough to fight in WW2 for the US, but not to vote at home.

Switzerland hasn't got there yet which the EU doesn't understand.

Switzerland still has an issue with immigration regardless of race, even immigration from the EU where they've signed a bilateral almost 10 years ago now.

I'm not saying there is no racism, but the complaint targeted specifically political campaigning, which reflects popular culture. And popular culture is worried about repeating the mass immigration mistakes made elsewhere.

The article also doesn't say anything about what the complainant is doing inside the EU which is also hardly perfect. You'd think problems in 27 EU countries would keep one busy. But I guess it's easier to go outside and compare. Sound familiar?
I understand the term very well. Politically speaking, Switzerland's stance on racism is very lax, thus for instance the ample posters depicting visible foreigners negatively and that IMO is not ok and should be abolished.
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Old 29.03.2012, 13:33
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Re: Racism rife in Switzerland: human rights chief

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I would read that with a huge grain of salt. Who says the two Indians were the only ones not to laugh? Did somebody walk through the train and check who was laughing? Did somebody study CCTV coverage of every single person on the train? Or is this a subjective opinion derived from a non-representative observation of one small part of the train? Did anybody count how many foreigners on the train did laugh? If the same happened in the UK, would anybody be insinuating the joke (or teh culture) was racist just because two Indians didn't think it was funny? Where is this heading?
Certainly, but why openly publish something like that in the first place? The fact that the author didn't think it was discriminating certainly underlines my aforemention point on culture.
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Old 29.03.2012, 13:41
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Re: Racism rife in Switzerland: human rights chief

Excuse me, but by Geert Wilders do you really mean THE Geert Wilders who promoted that inflammatory movie about Muslims and Islam that would make KONY 2012 look like a contender for international awards?
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Old 29.03.2012, 14:06
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Re: Racism rife in Switzerland: human rights chief

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Switzerland is stuck in the 70s
Yes, one of my favorite decades!

But they aren't, otherwise there would be no speed limits on the highways and back roads!

Tom
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Old 29.03.2012, 14:14
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Re: Racism rife in Switzerland: human rights chief

Oh lovely, another racist thread!

Yes, Switzerland is lagging far behind the rest of the enlightened world! Possibly this is one of the last countries where people can take walks, even in lonely forests, without being attacked! It is time for the country to catch a wake-up and learn to be more welcoming to people who don`t like living in their own countries.
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Old 29.03.2012, 14:41
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Re: Racism rife in Switzerland: human rights chief

Ah yes, but there are good and bad types of offence you see. It's okay to offend the enemies of the ruling consensus (that type of offence is called free speech) but how dare you offend their friends (that type of offence is completely unnacceptable)?

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Old 29.03.2012, 14:44
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Re: Racism rife in Switzerland: human rights chief

Well that was a mighty stanza; a little misguided I hasten to add, with a right-wing message disguised in left-wing rhetoric.

And also completely wrong historically, Britain actually had a completely open door policy up until 1950; we now currently have one of the most stringent immigration policies going.
I don't believe the Norman French immigrants paid much attention to the Anglo-Saxon culture when they all came over, but they certainly added to it.

Why is it not anybody’s 'God given right' to live where one pleases, if we take into consideration the statistical low probability that there is a God/Gods, and the even lower probability that he issues laws, why on earth would he be concerned about where you live, surely there are more important things for him to worry about?

Lack of 'Purity', 'culture' 'Britishness', what the hell does this mean? I have a fair idea, classic terms used by the far right to mean 'not white'.

Immigrants come to our country to improve their lives and add to the economy, in the same way you are in Germany doing the same thing.

I am a citizen of the world not hampered by small-minded parochial attitudes, and I choose to live where I please.
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Old 29.03.2012, 14:45
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Re: Racism rife in Switzerland: human rights chief

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Unfortunately, immigrants are now encouraged to bring their culture with them...
Amen to that. Mmmm..curry.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/b2867646-1...#axzz1qVcVTcjk
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Old 29.03.2012, 15:08
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Re: Racism rife in Switzerland: human rights chief

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I believe the issue here is, that it is a systematic racism ingrained in the culture because this counrty has not been exposed to "real" immigration issues like others and was always shielded by its international insignificance. For instance, I read an article yesterday evening about the "funny" train conductor. It stated that the whole train was laughing except 2 Indians, because they probably didn't understand German. Why would the Indians not be able to understand the language? It could be, that they're actually Swiss but didn't find the jokes funny IMO. This for instance, is not being overly politically correct, but is rather a fine example of racism in connection with culturals attitudes. Again, my sentiments are, that Switzerland is stuck in the 70s because of its lack of international relevance possibly supported by its banking secrecy.
I agree with the point made above.

I suppose people can give quite eloquent definitions of racism but in a nut shell being racist means having a negative, irrational and ignorant view of a person or persons in another social or cultural group.

Good point about the details of the people who laughed and those who didn't. Who is to know if the Indians were the only ones who didn't laugh? And perhaps others joined in with (fake) laughter just out of pier group pressure. But I can say from my first hand knowledge of Indians that when they are not impressed and out numbered they keep quiet and generaly look down. And don't apply European body language analysis to that!

Probably best to take into consideration that the majority of written articles are not even close to 100% factual. Far from it. Ever read an article of which you had a deep knowledge of and thought how inaccurately it was written? One of my son's friends has a father who writes for The Internation Herald Tribune and also for the major Swiss papers and this guy is one of the most dishonest people I have ever met. When ever he makes a promise to his son the little guy goes ballistic as he knows it is a shallow promise. Just about every reporter now-a-days is given what to print and prints it or doen't get access to further info'. Embedded reporters.

I have studied racism for only 1 semester at a college (tip of the ice berg) and one of the first things the teacher made clear was that racism is missinterpreted as a definition by the majority of people.

Kofi Annan once said, and it is a loose quote as I don't remember the exact words. He said why be hostile towards people of different beliefs? Why not treasure the differences between us all (perhaps in much the same way that a English tourist finds pleasure out of a holiday to say India or Asia).

Perhaps most people are reluctant to change their convienient and comfortable beliefs. Some tourists arrive home and think, yes that was good but boy is it great to get home where everything works the way it should... I say why go back to old ways? Change or become part of the dead wood. I don't want to be a grumpy old man when that time comes!


Last edited by Jack of all trades.; 29.03.2012 at 15:10. Reason: more info'
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Old 29.03.2012, 15:12
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Re: Racism rife in Switzerland: human rights chief

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Switzerland's government needs to do much more to tackle rising racism and xenophobia, a Commissioner from the European Council on Human Rights said in a letter to the Swiss forign ministry.

Read the full article: Racism rife in Switzerland: human rights chief
Ahhh... EF... some things change (?) and some stay the same.

Here's 99 pages of the same topic from 2007:
Are the swiss racist?

It was a useful thread for driving traffic and growing the members list, so ynot.


C--yaa!
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Old 29.03.2012, 15:12
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Re: Racism rife in Switzerland: human rights chief

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I suppose people can give quite eloquent definitions of racism but in a nut shell being racist means having a negative, irrational and ignorant view of a person or persons in another social or cultural group.
A bit like the OP then?

If your definition is correct, then it would be racist to consider another person racist, unless you yourself are a racist or approve of racism.

So by logical extension, the only non-racists in the world are those who deny the existence of racism?

I see the fundaments of the universe creak and collapse inwards on themselves as the very atoms of the big bang turn around and bite their own tails.
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Old 29.03.2012, 15:25
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Re: Racism rife in Switzerland: human rights chief

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A bit like the OP then?

If your definition is correct, then it would be racist to consider another person racist, unless you yourself are a racist.

So by logical extension, the only non-racists in teh world are those who deny the existence of racism?

I see the fundaments of the universe creak and collapse inwards on themselves.
I suppose it depends on how far you want to take it. It's healthy to be hard on oneself but only up to a cirtain point, yes? Some people like the idea and philosophy of Buddism and they can also happily go about their lives walking on grass thereby killing worms etc without feeling guilty. Others will sort through the soil and remove all the living creatures (or try to) before laying down say a foundation (Buddist monks do this). What works for one person may not work for another.

Isn't it a good idea to let others find their own way through life? If someone is racist then why not give them time (especially if they are young) to learn more and become a better person? I suppose we can try to give them advice, but one had better be patient and display empathy when giving advice.

I think anybody who thinks they are NOT a racist either doesn't know any better or is lying to themselves.


Last edited by Jack of all trades.; 29.03.2012 at 15:29. Reason: more info'
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Old 29.03.2012, 15:30
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Re: Racism rife in Switzerland: human rights chief

Switzerland hardly suffers from ''unfettered'' immigration!

And by the way, I've been an immigrant twice now, and I can tell you that not integrating is usually a symptom of not being welcome or being actually discriminated against by the people of that particular country, and not because you don't want to, trust me.
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Old 29.03.2012, 15:31
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Re: Racism rife in Switzerland: human rights chief

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I believe the issue here is, that it is a systematic racism ingrained in the culture because this counrty has not been exposed to "real" immigration issues like others and was always shielded by its international insignificance.
I would disgree with that.

Switzerland has accepted its status as a multicultural and multilingual country at a much earlier point in history than any other country I can think of. It was until Mitterand came to power that the French government was awkwardly ignoring the very existence of such minority languages and cultures as Breton and Basque. In the UK Welsh did not start gaining any official recognition until about the 1980s and Scottish Gaelic still has no legal recognition today. As recently as post WW2, ethic cleansings in Eastern Europe led to the expulsion of ethnic Germans from places like the Sudetenland and Poland. Even today, Spain and Belgium are struggling to remain united countries due to groups that were oppressed in recent history distrusting the new staus quo and wanting their own countries (and who knows how long Scotland will remain part of the UK?). In comparison, Switzerland has enjoyed a long period of comparative peace between the linguistic and cultural groups in the country. There have not always been sunflowers and rainbows but disputes were mostly solved in an amicable way. To say Switzerland doesn't get multiculturalism is misrepresting history in a big way.
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