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Old 03.04.2012, 23:28
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Swiss take fall as US and UK 'havens' thrive: report

Beat them to it: http://www.thelocal.ch/3011/20120403/

Tom
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Old 03.04.2012, 23:37
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Re: Swiss take fall as US and UK 'havens' thrive: report

Us 1:0 ch
uk 1:0 ch
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Old 04.04.2012, 00:59
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Re: Swiss take fall as US and UK 'havens' thrive: report

Critiquing another badly written The Local article?

There is legal tax avoidance, and then there is illegal tax evasion.

It's perfectly legal to try to pay as little tax as possible. Structuring entities to minimize tax liabilities is nothing new. That is what tax lawyers and tax accountants are for. For example, you would find that most publicly traded companies in the US incorporate in Delaware. This is because in Delaware, laws are conducive for minimization of tax liabilities. The setting up of a trust is another legal way to avoid taxes.

But then there is tax evasion. This is outright lying about what one should be taxed for, which the governments of the world consider a very serious crime. They'll put offenders in jail and take everything they own if they can. This is the qualm with Swiss banking secrecy.

I really think the article should have better differentiated the two. It could have served to better inform its readers, and perhaps even garner some appreciation from discerning readers. But instead, it seems to come off as an attempt to incite knee-jerk reactions.
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Old 04.04.2012, 16:14
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Re: Swiss take fall as US and UK 'havens' thrive: report

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Critiquing another badly written The Local article?

There is legal tax avoidance, and then there is illegal tax evasion.


But then there is tax evasion. This is outright lying about what one should be taxed for, which the governments of the world consider a very serious crime. They'll put offenders in jail and take everything they own if they can. This is the qualm with Swiss banking secrecy.
Leaving the morality of tax evasion aside, how do opaque structures concerning beneficial ownership and shoddy documentation standards make the Delaware model substantially different from "bank secrecy" when it comes to tax evasion? Do explain.
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Old 04.04.2012, 16:29
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Re: Swiss take fall as US and UK 'havens' thrive: report

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Leaving the morality of tax evasion aside, how do opaque structures concerning beneficial ownership and shoddy documentation standards make the Delaware model substantially different from "bank secrecy" when it comes to tax evasion? Do explain.
Tax evasion and tax planning are two different things.

The problem with bank secrecy is that it prevented an investigation of criminal activities, and there were patterns of it.

Also, they are not moral issues, rather legal issues.
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Old 04.04.2012, 16:37
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Re: Swiss take fall as US and UK 'havens' thrive: report

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Tax evasion and tax planning are two different things.

The problem with bank secrecy is that it prevented an investigation of criminal activities, and there were patterns of it. Also, they are not moral issues, rather legal issues.
Incorrect, bank secrecy guaranteed that proper investigation could take place if necessary since the information was available in banking system. The "Delaware" and UK model however covers the tracks by providing an easy way to hide the real beneficial ownership of trusts. In addition shoddy documentation standards makes it easy to open shell companies and hide criminal connections.

Every legal issue is at heart a moral issue, otherwise it wouldn't be a legal issue in the first place.
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Old 04.04.2012, 16:40
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Re: Swiss take fall as US and UK 'havens' thrive: report

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Incorrect, bank secrecy guaranteed that proper investigation could take place if necessary since the information was available in banking system. The "Delaware" and UK model however covers the tracks by providing an easy way to hide the real beneficial ownership of trusts. In addition shoddy documentation standards makes it easy to open shell companies and hide criminal connections. Every legal issue is at heart a moral issue, otherwise it wouldn't be a legal issue in the first place.

Then that differentiation would have made for a better article than the shoddy one The Local posted.
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Old 04.04.2012, 17:28
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Re: Swiss take fall as US and UK 'havens' thrive: report

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Every legal issue is at heart a moral issue, otherwise it wouldn't be a legal issue in the first place.

Not necessarily. There is nothing immoral about minimizing the amount of tax one wants to pay. It is a bureaucratic issue. In cases where there is a law, then it becomes a legal issue, and breaking the law becomes a moral issue.
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Old 04.04.2012, 17:40
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Re: Swiss take fall as US and UK 'havens' thrive: report

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But then there is tax evasion. This is outright lying about what one should be taxed for, which the governments of the world consider a very serious crime. They'll put offenders in jail and take everything they own if they can.
So is the US government going finally crack down on Miami and imprison and extradite all them seriously criminal latin-american tax evaders?
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Old 04.04.2012, 17:47
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Re: Swiss take fall as US and UK 'havens' thrive: report

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So is the US government going finally crack down on Miami and imprison and extradite all them seriously criminal latin-american tax evaders?

Good question. The impression I get is that they only prosecute people who they do not benefit from. It's some perversion of the term National Interest.
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Old 04.04.2012, 18:52
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Re: Swiss take fall as US and UK 'havens' thrive: report

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us 1:0 ch
uk 1:0 ch
congratulations !!!!
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Old 05.04.2012, 12:14
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Re: Swiss take fall as US and UK 'havens' thrive: report

Apparently works in the other direction

Amazon: £7bn sales, no UK corporation tax
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Old 05.04.2012, 12:48
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Re: Swiss take fall as US and UK 'havens' thrive: report

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It could have served to better inform its readers.
The Local? You must be joking.
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Old 05.04.2012, 13:42
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Re: Swiss take fall as US and UK 'havens' thrive: report

So, the US govt is being hypocritical again with their usual, "do as we say and not as we do." *SIGH* What else is new?

Instead of submitting to pressure, the Swiss should have told the US govt, "Kehr vor Deiner eigenen Türe" (sweep in front of your own door).

Start with revamping the 70,000 page IRS tax code (which even the professionals struggle with), and then come and talk to us.

IRS = International Robbing Service
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Old 05.04.2012, 13:59
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Re: Swiss take fall as US and UK 'havens' thrive: report

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Instead of submitting to pressure, the Swiss should have told the US govt, "Kehr vor Deiner eigenen Türe" (sweep in front of your own door).
As a concept it's morally great, but when your USD accounts can be blocked instantly it ranks a bit low on the practical value scale...
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Old 05.04.2012, 16:04
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Re: Swiss take fall as US and UK 'havens' thrive: report

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As a concept it's morally great, but when your USD accounts can be blocked instantly it ranks a bit low on the practical value scale...
It's called wishful thinking.
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Old 05.04.2012, 16:46
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Re: Swiss take fall as US and UK 'havens' thrive: report

For a related and slightly better written article:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-17624364

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Germany has signed a new tax evasion treaty with Switzerland, but opposition MPs are threatening to block it. If approved, the deal could bring Germany 10bn euros (£8.3bn, $13.1bn) next year, its finance ministry estimates.
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Old 05.04.2012, 16:55
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Re: Swiss take fall as US and UK 'havens' thrive: report

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For a related and slightly better written article:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-17624364
This one is even better: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypocrisy
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Old 05.04.2012, 17:05
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Re: Swiss take fall as US and UK 'havens' thrive: report

Ironic thing about the title of the Local article. It seems like a competition to be a safe haven. Swiss take "fall", and the others "thrive".

Clearly, the Local doesn't see that as being about morality nor integrity, do they?

Last edited by Phos; 05.04.2012 at 20:55.
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