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  #61  
Old 14.04.2012, 21:15
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Re: Cross-border shoppers targeted by campaign

What I love about this forum is the originality of some of the posts.

FWIW, I recently sold a kidney and gave the proceeds straight to my local Migros to make up for their fall in profits.

Cheers,
Nick

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Why is it that most of the foreigners who come to Switzerland ALWAYS bitch about how things are so expensive. Always whining .. If things were so good at home why did you not stay at home. I am a foreigner Canadian.. and I am married to a Swiss. I can always return home or to the USA if I so desired . There are many things that I do not like but I live with it. The grass is always greener on the other side. Most of the foreigners enjoy a much better lifestyle that that at home. So I say again if it is so hard for you and you do not like it here pack your bloody bags and go home. I am totally fed up of your whining and carrying on about everything , and in the meantime you are the very ones that do your utmost to exploit the system. Lets bring it on now..
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  #62  
Old 14.04.2012, 21:19
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Re: Cross-border shoppers targeted by campaign

Coolio,

If it were only the foreigners who did their shopping across the border, there wouldn't be such a big stink about it.
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  #63  
Old 14.04.2012, 21:21
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Re: Cross-border shoppers targeted by campaign

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FWIW, I recently sold a kidney....
OK, OK, you sold a kidney, stop complaining about it. I bet you went to Germany for cut-price kidneyectomy surgery anyway.

These expats come over here and when they lose their organs you never hear the end of it
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  #64  
Old 14.04.2012, 21:46
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Re: Cross-border shoppers targeted by campaign

FWIW Migros have a fantastic reputation as an arbeitgeber.

Benefits include free klubschule courses, an excellent Migros bank employee konto, mpk pensionkasse @ 8.5% oh, and double cumulus points!
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Old 14.04.2012, 21:51
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Re: Cross-border shoppers targeted by campaign

And vouchers for use in French and German supermarkets...

Cheers,
Nick

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FWIW Migros have a fantastic reputation as an arbeitgeber.

Benefits include free klubschule courses, an excellent Migros bank employee konto, mpk pensionkasse @ 8.5% oh, and double cumulus points!
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  #66  
Old 14.04.2012, 21:55
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Re: Cross-border shoppers targeted by campaign

Also forgot to mention cheaper insurance quotes and krankenversicherung...
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  #67  
Old 14.04.2012, 22:08
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Re: Cross-border shoppers targeted by campaign

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Of course it will affect retailers and their employees, but the longer they wait to change their unsustainable pricing structures the tougher it will become for everyone involved.
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the "pricing structures" you mention are quite the same as in other countries in Europe

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The Swiss price level may have been justified back when most consumer products were actually made in Switzerland with Swiss employees earning Swiss wages. But today, most consumer products are made either in the EU or in Asia and there is simply no more cost-based justification for such high prices.
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the times when most consumer products were made in Siwtzerland is more than 80 years ago.

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Prices in a market are usually set according to what the customer is willing to pay. Swiss consumers have been willing to pay inflated prices for years, even after the production of the goods was first moved to Italy, then to Romania, then to China. But now, due to the falling Euro the perception of many Swiss is rapidly changing and the willingness to pay prices that are up to several times those in neighbouring countries is dropping like a stone.
In this situation, Swiss retailers can either try to retain the status quo or they can do everything possible to bring prices down to a competitive level by putting pressure on importers, distributors and foreign suppliers. Customers putting pressure on retailers certainly helps here.
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prices in a market first of all have to cover ALL costs. Swiss consumers have NOT been willing to pay inflated prices for decades and first supported Migros when Migros was THE low price pioneer and then supported Coop when SP cooperatives like LVZ and KVZ etc joined forces, and EPA for decades got its support from a wide DIScontent . "Now" ? You mean the times between 1950 and now ? Because Swiss consumers already in the 1950ies went accross the border for shopping. Swiss retailers, in view of the inflated prices of Swiss and German wholesalers increasingly circumvent the Swiss and the German trade and purchase even German products in the UK and the USA


For
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a business or an industry it’s very dangerous not to look ahead and adjust to changes in the marketplace.
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very easy to say such a thing but a bit less so to put things into practice. I mean if you have to see that certain stuff of a Nürnberg producer can be purchased at a lower price via a US-American wholesaler, you will realize that things can be strange

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A textbook example is the Swiss brewing industry. Switzerland used to have proud breweries. Only problem: They were living off a cartel from 1935 until the late eighties. Once the cartel was gone, most of the major breweries were taken over by Heineken and Carlsberg which now have a combined market share of about 65%. You can read about it in German in wikipedia.
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it has to be mentioned that the beer consumption in Switzerland between 1950 and 2000 dropped dramatically. Similar in France. In Switzerland, the beer producers got into problems when the restrictions onto imports of cheap red wines were lifted. The collapse of much of the beer industry should have taken place in the 1980ies already. Heineken and Carlsberg over some years now purchased companies which in reality should have gone bankrupt


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I think that these kinds of places will do just fine. I recently read that Volg had a good year in 2011
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VOLG specializes in having shops in rural places without much competition. They generally are 10% to 30% above the pricelevel as Migros and Coop, but quite many of their customers are co-operative shareholders of VOLG

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Being a couple without children in the US we ate at restaurants on average 4-5 times a week. In Zurich we've reduced it to probably 2. In the supermarkets, I buy as little as possible at regular price usually buying only on sale (30-40%) or 50% off stuff. So you're dead on with this comment except we're finding it closer to 45CHF a head having a couple of glasses of wine each.
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What I don't understand is how a supermarket can regularly price say a bottle of water at 1 CHF and the next day it's on sale for 1/2 CHF. Wine 20 CHF next week sale at 10 CHF. I am thankful for those sales ;-)
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You have to see that NET prices generally are, not only in Switzerland but in most of Europe, some 40 to 60 % of the sales-price. So that a supermarket who needs to get rid of stock will go down with the price by 50%

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It depends on how much income you bring home. We strongly support the local economy, buying our fruits and vegs + eggs from the local farm, + Geneva milk (even if it over every other milkds) and everything else we can, but for example we simply cannot afford some meat like beef and yes, if we fancy a nice steak (once a month), we pop over to France to buy it. Before anyone jumps in, yes, we have almost become vegetarians, healthier but we still need the odd meat from time to time. Some on much higher salaries would not blink at spending so much money on meat (unless they are vegetarians!). And I really don't know how someone on 60K can afford to feed a family of 4. Sometimes you have just no choice but go over the border
.
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While I can imagine the Canton of Geneva and the Région Genevois producing eggs and some vegs and even some fruit



Generally, though, I'd agree that if the CHF has become stronger, market forces should mean that imports should be cheaper to buy in Switzerland.[/QUOTE]
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But only the net-net-net-net costs, while the local costs remained the same
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  #68  
Old 14.04.2012, 22:39
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Re: Cross-border shoppers targeted by campaign

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Why is it that most of the foreigners who come to Switzerland ALWAYS bitch about how things are so expensive. Always whining .. If things were so good at home why did you not stay at home. I am a foreigner Canadian.. and I am married to a Swiss. I can always return home or to the USA if I so desired . There are many things that I do not like but I live with it. The grass is always greener on the other side. Most of the foreigners enjoy a much better lifestyle that that at home. So I say again if it is so hard for you and you do not like it here pack your bloody bags and go home. I am totally fed up of your whining and carrying on about everything , and in the meantime you are the very ones that do your utmost to exploit the system. Lets bring it on now..
this kind of post always makes me smile. thanks for that.
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  #69  
Old 14.04.2012, 22:45
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Re: Cross-border shoppers targeted by campaign

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Why is it that most of the foreigners who come to Switzerland ALWAYS bitch about how things are so expensive.
Because they are?

Oh, BTW I'm not a foreigner.
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Old 14.04.2012, 23:58
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Re: Cross-border shoppers targeted by campaign

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I have quite a bit of experience working with various operators in the fields of logistics, distribution, and retail throughout Switzerland.

With a few exceptions, most players are uncomfortable with and not well adapted to the concept of competition, and the inefficiencies and plain incompetence at every level is shocking...
Thanks for this post, I stand corrected. I had been under the impression that to become a dominant player in the retail field you'd have to be efficient, competent and competitive.

Clearly I was wrong, as it seems that in CH you can become a major player just by being slightly less inefficient and incompetent than your rivals...
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Old 15.04.2012, 00:11
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Re: Cross-border shoppers targeted by campaign

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...These expats come over here and when they lose their organs you never hear the end of it
Quite AND they have the nerve to demand that expensive and scientifically proven Swiss drugs should be as cheap as the marvellous elixirs they got back home from the travelling medicine show....
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  #72  
Old 15.04.2012, 00:18
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Re: Cross-border shoppers targeted by campaign

That's Härdöpfel for you, sir!

But thanks for the links in your last post. Quite interesting.
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  #73  
Old 15.04.2012, 00:43
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Re: Cross-border shoppers targeted by campaign

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Why is it that most of the foreigners who come to Switzerland ALWAYS bitch about how things are so expensive. Always whining .. If things were so good at home why did you not stay at home. I am a foreigner Canadian.. and I am married to a Swiss. I can always return home or to the USA if I so desired . There are many things that I do not like but I live with it. The grass is always greener on the other side. Most of the foreigners enjoy a much better lifestyle that that at home. So I say again if it is so hard for you and you do not like it here pack your bloody bags and go home. I am totally fed up of your whining and carrying on about everything , and in the meantime you are the very ones that do your utmost to exploit the system. Lets bring it on now..
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  #74  
Old 15.04.2012, 08:20
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Re: Cross-border shoppers targeted by campaign

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This place sucks! This place sucks! This place sucks! This place sucks! This place sucks! This place sucks! This place sucks! This place sucks! This place sucks! This place sucks! This place sucks! This place sucks! This place sucks! This place sucks! This place sucks! This place sucks! This place sucks! This place sucks! This place sucks! This place sucks! This place sucks! This place sucks! This place sucks! This place sucks! This place sucks! This place sucks! This place sucks! This place sucks! This place sucks! This place sucks! This place sucks! This place sucks! This place sucks! This place sucks! This place sucks!
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  #75  
Old 15.04.2012, 08:53
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Personally, i would be willing to overlook the crazy prices but not the terrible customer service. I regret the day i decided to buy my kitchen locally. 4 months wait for a basic kitchen and they got nothing right. Plus the attitude for being a foreigner.
We bought our kitchen in Germany and the experience was absolutely terrible. That said, I'd do it again, considering you pay 50% less for the same lousy customer service.
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Old 15.04.2012, 08:59
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FWIW Migros have a fantastic reputation as an arbeitgeber.

Benefits include free klubschule courses, an excellent Migros bank employee konto, mpk pensionkasse @ 8.5% oh, and double cumulus points!
I hope that was sarcasm. There's a huge difference between what a general Migros employee (say in IT) gets and what the traditional part-time cashier in you local grocer's makes / gets.
My brother-in-law's ex works for Migros at the cash register. She says working conditions are worse at Migros than they're at Aldi.
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Old 15.04.2012, 10:25
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Re: Cross-border shoppers targeted by campaign

I have not yet seen much of a campaign. Migros and Coop and Aldi-CH and Lidl-CH may emphasize that a lot of their stuff is not so much more expensive than accross the border, but the quality-argument is a non-seller, as most of the products available in Germany also are available over here (in many cases really more expensive in fact).

THE campaign actually started by the shops, by the transport-industry,. by inbound-tourism and by the industry is a campaign to put more pressure on Federal authorities and institutions to raise the PEG to at least 1.30. And THIS will be a real thing. The company of Bundesrat Schneider-Ammann is in the Industrie-Verband, the company of Nationalrat Giezendanner is in various transport industry association, the one of Nationalrat Spuhler in the Industrie-Verband, etc and all this means that the economy has quite some clout. Once the PEG of 1.30 is established, the shops here will be better placed again, the transport-industry will be in a far better position, inbound-tourism will have their chance, and the industry (machinery, instruments, medicaments, pharmaceuticals) will have a better position again.

The "campaign" mentioned on top here however was started last year but never got steam
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Old 15.04.2012, 10:58
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Re: Cross-border shoppers targeted by campaign

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Why is it that most of the foreigners who come to Switzerland ALWAYS bitch about how things are so expensive. Always whining .. If things were so good at home why did you not stay at home. I am a foreigner Canadian.. and I am married to a Swiss. I can always return home or to the USA if I so desired . There are many things that I do not like but I live with it. The grass is always greener on the other side. Most of the foreigners enjoy a much better lifestyle that that at home. So I say again if it is so hard for you and you do not like it here pack your bloody bags and go home. I am totally fed up of your whining and carrying on about everything , and in the meantime you are the very ones that do your utmost to exploit the system. Lets bring it on now..
I've lived here for 30 years, and have been paying taxes, contributing to the system and working and spending as a Swiss citizen for the duration. I have a right to my opinion and I will state it. I choose to stay here, and I fully recognize that this is a country with one of the highest standards of living in the world, and a great life/work balance is possible. It doesn't mean everything is perfect, and if you are happy paying the same for products that are costing the importers less than before, be my guest.

By the way, were you whining about foreigners in that post? Just wondering. There seems to be a need for them here, and if you want to hire them, you have to accept their opinions as well, or at least consider that they might have some validity. Just like foreigners coming here that make high wages and have to accept high prices, the Swiss have to accept that if they need people to come here to work, they also have to accept that those people will have needs and thoughts of their own. Modern Switzerland is built as much on the culture of incoming waves of immigrants as it is on the earliest ones that peopled it in its early history, and is undoubtedly richer for it. But everything works both ways.
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Old 15.04.2012, 11:03
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Re: Cross-border shoppers targeted by campaign

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Don't you think there is a bit of a contradiction here. It is partly because staff are paid much better than in surrounding Europe that prices are higher.
This is the main argument coming from the retailers and it gets repeated over and over again.

Frankly, it is complete rubbish: Salaries are the major cost driver for service businesses and the reason why hair dressers, restaurants or craftsmen cost more than abroad. I for one never complained about their costs as I am in return getting a good salary as well. (But I do complain about their lack of service in the "service industry"...)

Retailers like Coop and Migros are not hair dressers. They need far less staff per CHF revenue. They import stuff, put it on the shelves and some cashier scans it. Blaming solely the decent salary for their high prices is nothing short of ridiculous. And I do not care if the name of the cashier is Vreni or Fatima.

I have been working in product marketing in Switzerland and for the ones who really do not know it: the price you pay for the stuff you buy has more often than not very little to do with the costs directly connected to get this product or service to you. Marketers find out how much you are willing to pay for it and even if some price might be considered "too cheap to be of good quality". When I made up the prices for some products did we look at the competition and then added the perceived value of our Swiss brand. We knew that consumers EXPECTED us to be 50% more expensive than the competition and willing to pay this difference to get something they considered superior cause it came with a very Swiss name...

In short: I am more than happy to pay a buck extra whenever I know it ends up in the pocket of a not so well of employee. I am far less willing to pay extra for Swissness of products or the bad management practices and unwillingness to compete on price.

Looks like everyone agrees that Coop and Migros are expensive and not competitive. So the question is now how much of their rip off ends REALLY up to be the salary of their staff. Aldi is not cheaper because it treats their employees badly at all. The company is famous in Germany to pay way higher salaries than their competition in return for a more stressful job and rigid performance and quality controls. To be fair is it easy to pay more than the competition because Lidl and Schlecker are famous for being ridiculously low paying employers - but as of now is the higher paying for high performance strategy working out best: Aldi is profitable while their competition who tries to hire as cheap as possible is losing. So squeezing employees is not just ethically wrong but a not very successful business practice...

Aldi is cheap because they developed a highly efficient retail and logistics system with a limited offer, short shelf life and a good grip on their suppliers. In short: They are efficient and competitive, something most Vrenis simply are not. I have for example no clue who ever bought some electronics in my local Migros: The employees had no idea about the stuff, the products were underaverage quality and had a Swiss price tag... as a result did they stand around till they were completely outdated and even the "30% off" sticker would not make people buy old TVs... my gut feeling is that the Swiss retailers loose much more money in these areas than because of the salaries they pay. And that is something I do not accept to get ripped off for.
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Old 15.04.2012, 11:41
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Re: Cross-border shoppers targeted by campaign

It shows that people would or do shop outside switzerland.

So this raises a questions
1- what can you bring back (eg 1kg Meat per person)
2- what are the shopping times in Germany / France / Italy
3- What type of money do you use to pay, do people take Euros with them or do they use a card from there local banks
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