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  #81  
Old 15.04.2012, 11:42
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Re: Cross-border shoppers targeted by campaign

An intelligent, measured and balanced comment, at last! Thank you so much!

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I've lived here for 30 years, and have been paying taxes, contributing to the system and working and spending as a Swiss citizen for the duration. I have a right to my opinion and I will state it. I choose to stay here, and I fully recognize that this is a country with one of the highest standards of living in the world, and a great life/work balance is possible. It doesn't mean everything is perfect, and if you are happy paying the same for products that are costing the importers less than before, be my guest.

By the way, were you whining about foreigners in that post? Just wondering. There seems to be a need for them here, and if you want to hire them, you have to accept their opinions as well, or at least consider that they might have some validity. Just like foreigners coming here that make high wages and have to accept high prices, the Swiss have to accept that if they need people to come here to work, they also have to accept that those people will have needs and thoughts of their own. Modern Switzerland is built as much on the culture of incoming waves of immigrants as it is on the earliest ones that peopled it in its early history, and is undoubtedly richer for it. But everything works both ways.
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  #82  
Old 15.04.2012, 11:57
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Re: Cross-border shoppers targeted by campaign

There are three reasons why I buy almost everything in Germany:

1. The nearest Migros is 5km further than Edeka in Germany for us. In fact, Migros doesn't have a single shop anywhere between Kreuzlingen and Steckborn. There are none in the other direction all the way to Weinfelden, either. That's 15km form where I live. If they want the Swiss to buy their stuff in Migros, perhaps they should open shops first.

2. Coop predominantly sells German food (including most of their meat and poultry). I can get the EXACT SAME FOOD (so much for Swiss quality) in Germany for 40-500% less (500% less in case of meat - a kg of pork filet costs around 10-12 Euro in Germany, while Coop charges 62 Fr. for the SAME German meat. Same goes for baby food. BEBA HA 1 costs 10.90 Euro in Drogeriemarkt in Germany, while the same food costs 19.90 Fr. in Coop and 22 Fr. in Migros. BEBA in Swiss stores is also imported from Germany). Frankly, I'd be stupid to buy food in Switzerland. Saying that this behavior hurts the economy is bull, if you ask me. I use the extra cash in my pocket for other things here in Switzerland - for example for skiing trips etc.

3. The selection in Germany is far superior. Coop and Migros have been reducing their line of goods drastically over the last 10 years. For example, I just found 5 different kinds of whole-bean decaf coffee in Edeka in Constance. Coop has one, which happens to be low-quality crap.
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  #83  
Old 15.04.2012, 12:00
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Re: Cross-border shoppers targeted by campaign

This Swiss consumer magazine tells us where our money goes, and why we pay more, it isn't the higher Swiss wages!

The exporters add 5% but the Swiss importers charge us 9% plus taxes and transport,

http://www.beobachter.ch/konsum/kauf...tlich-so-viel/
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  #84  
Old 15.04.2012, 12:16
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Re: Cross-border shoppers targeted by campaign

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This Swiss consumer magazine tells us where our money goes, and why we pay more, it isn't the higher Swiss wages!

The exporters add 5% but the Swiss importers charge us 9% plus taxes and transport,

http://www.beobachter.ch/konsum/kauf...tlich-so-viel/
Sbrinz please, this magazine is utter garbage....you've posted a link to the magazine pertaining a very similar topic before and it was incorrect. They mentioned, that a price driving factor are nicer stores. Because the Swiss appreciate nice stores.....really?! When my friend from Slovakia came to visit me, he told me, that shopping in Switzerland reminded him of Slovakia in the 80s.
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  #85  
Old 15.04.2012, 12:19
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Re: Cross-border shoppers targeted by campaign

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This is the main argument coming from the retailers and it gets repeated over and over again.

Frankly, it is complete rubbish: Salaries are the major cost driver for service businesses and the reason why hair dressers, restaurants or craftsmen cost more than abroad. I for one never complained about their costs as I am in return getting a good salary as well. (But I do complain about their lack of service in the "service industry"...)

Retailers like Coop and Migros are not hair dressers. They need far less staff per CHF revenue. They import stuff, put it on the shelves and some cashier scans it. Blaming solely the decent salary for their high prices is nothing short of ridiculous. And I do not care if the name of the cashier is Vreni or Fatima.
The delta between Swiss and, say, German salaries is not as significant if you forget about the salary paid to the employee, but look at the total cost per employee. If you factor in social security, health insurance, paid vacation etc. the total cost to the employer is not so much higher in Switzerland. Until the Swiss Frank really increased in value several Swiss cantons have actually emphasized lower total costs related to salaries when lobbying for jobs to be moved to Switzerland.
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  #86  
Old 15.04.2012, 12:22
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Re: Cross-border shoppers targeted by campaign

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They mentioned, that a price driving factor are nicer stores. Because the Swiss appreciate nice stores.....really?!
I can absolutely confirm this. When it was freezing for a few weeks recently I wanted to wash my windscreen at a Migrol while refueling. Needless to say all buckets with water were frozen solid. The clerk told me that corporate policy prevented them from keeping the buckets inside, since it would make the store dirty and untidy...
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Old 15.04.2012, 13:02
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Re: Cross-border shoppers targeted by campaign

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Sbrinz please, this magazine is utter garbage....you've posted a link to the magazine pertaining a very similar topic before and it was incorrect. They mentioned, that a price driving factor are nicer stores. Because the Swiss appreciate nice stores.....really?! When my friend from Slovakia came to visit me, he told me, that shopping in Switzerland reminded him of Slovakia in the 80s.
Your friend from Czechoslovakia (Slovakia was not yet existing in the 80ies ) might stop talking rubbish. Even in Prague in 1990, the assortment in the shops was scarce, with empty shelves. Even in good restaurants in downtown, up to 40% of everything on the menue was "out of stock". So much for realities. AND let's add that the stylish shelves in Mi-Coop simply are not really required. Aldi and Lidl make good business here with far less gadgets. Go to the Shamrock Pub and then a few meters towards Adliswil. On the left you will see the "Wollishofen Supermarket" and the shelves etc are Aldi-Lidl style but the shop is always full. The magazine mentioned of course so also is talking rubbish, as those snobbery shelves are not really appreciated, at least not as stated.

Back to Praha. It in 1990 reminded me of Zürich of the 1950ies, and a Kölner I met (in the good restaurants in downtown you had to share tables) felt reminded to the Köln of the early 60ies. So, to put things the other way round, if Czechia and Slovakia and Hungary now are on West European standards (hardly ABOVE) it is nice as this would signal their full return into Central Europe (Switzerland, B-W, Bayern, Austria and Lombardia)
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Old 15.04.2012, 13:27
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Re: Cross-border shoppers targeted by campaign

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This is the main argument coming from the retailers and it gets repeated over and over again.

Frankly, it is complete rubbish: Salaries are the major cost driver for service businesses and the reason why hair dressers, restaurants or craftsmen cost more than abroad. I for one never complained about their costs as I am in return getting a good salary as well. (But I do complain about their lack of service in the "service industry"...)

Retailers like Coop and Migros are not hair dressers. They need far less staff per CHF revenue. They import stuff, put it on the shelves and some cashier scans it. Blaming solely the decent salary for their high prices is nothing short of ridiculous. And I do not care if the name of the cashier is Vreni or Fatima.
I've linked this once on the forum but I'll do it again

http://www.kassensturz.sf.tv/Nachric...hweizer-Loehne

It's more or less proving what you say. Wages are 14% of the total costs and while the Swiss earn more they make that up through higher productivity and less social security costs for the employee.

High wages has no link whatsoever to the up to 4 times higher prices (like the hair product on Kassensturz) that we have to pay
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  #89  
Old 15.04.2012, 13:42
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Re: Cross-border shoppers targeted by campaign

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Right. Come to Switzerland for the great quality of life and high wages but spend your money across the border. It's like biting the hand that feeds you.
It depends. When the price difference is really big, I really don't feel guilty. When the Swiss over-price correspond more or less to the over-price I am paid compared to my German colleagues, then I enjoy more the convenience of shopping quick and easy in my Swiss home town.
Last thing I imported from Germany: Chinese paper, 12 euros in Germany, 45 CHF in Basel... the exact same import paper. I like Papyrus in Freier Strasse, and buy other supply there, but not that paper.

One thing I don't get: men shoes are the same price in Germany and Switzerland. I don't have the feeling shoe shops pay their employees worse than shops selling goods for higher prices than abroad.
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Old 15.04.2012, 13:52
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Re: Cross-border shoppers targeted by campaign

Only yesterday, visiting our local Inter-Marché hereabouts, car-park was full of numberplates with VD, VS, BE, NE and FR. It's bound to be an on-going well....... I was going to say problem, but for the supermarkets here they have never had it so good. Wonder what the border Customs Officers think/say?
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  #91  
Old 15.04.2012, 13:54
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Re: Cross-border shoppers targeted by campaign

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Wonder what the border Customs Officers think/say?
Great business for them, too - they've never caught that many smugglers from Zurich and St. Gallen. On the other handy, they seem to be in violation of the Schengen treaties here as they have started to conduct systematic border checks again in Thurgau.
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Old 15.04.2012, 14:18
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Re: Cross-border shoppers targeted by campaign

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On the other handy, they seem to be in violation of the Schengen treaties here as they have started to conduct systematic border checks again in Thurgau.
Are they checking IDs/passports or are they just checking for imported goods?
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Old 15.04.2012, 14:32
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Re: Cross-border shoppers targeted by campaign

your company pays low taxes.
you sell goods with 8% VAT.
your competition is based in another country.
they have to charge around 20% VAT.
your customers are the richest in the world
they are not allowed to buy so much of certain product from your competitors without economic penalty even if they would be happy to drive across the border to shop there.
you import many of your goods at favourable exchange rates.

if you cannot succeed with the above factors, it is time to quit business and let somebody else take over.
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Old 15.04.2012, 14:32
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Re: Cross-border shoppers targeted by campaign

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1. The nearest Migros is 5km further than Edeka in Germany for us. In fact, Migros doesn't have a single shop anywhere between Kreuzlingen and Steckborn. There are none in the other direction all the way to Weinfelden, either. That's 15km form where I live. If they want the Swiss to buy their stuff in Migros, perhaps they should open shops first.
There's a Migros opening in Müllheim this week, the 19.04 if I recall. Don't know if that's any good for you, but maybe Müllheim is on your route and gives you more options.
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Old 15.04.2012, 18:23
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Re: Cross-border shoppers targeted by campaign

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Right. Come to Switzerland for the great quality of life and high wages but spend your money across the border. It's like biting the hand that feeds you.
I can agree with you...Even though I understand the need for people to run across the border to shop it seems so demeaning in a way. People want the Swiss quality of life but do not want to pay for it. I don't know anyone who jumps across the border to shop. After the travel there, shopping, coming back, and so on, are people really saving?

I guess if I want to buy a Cartier watch for 25,000chf and they have it in Germany for 19,000 it may be worth it. But for little tidbits and the like it seems so tedious and, well, tacky. I have a friend who owns an advertising agency he would never consider running across the border to buy meats and bread...lol Maybe it is a certain income bracket that does this? I cannot see a CEO running to Germany or France to buy a slab of meat, cheese, and a bottle of wine. But like I mentioned earlier I understand why others do it, but "to me" it seems somewhat indignant. I value my time more...
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Old 15.04.2012, 18:27
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Re: Cross-border shoppers targeted by campaign

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Don't you just love a well balanced and argued debate

Evianers the customs officers are no the chatty type ' anything to declare? - hmmm, please pull to the side so we can have a good look.... aghh, 1 kg over your meat allowance, that will be 20CHF please'. Or 'this lawnmower is 500CHF, so you'll have to pay tax, your max is 300CHF - yes I know there are 2 of you in the car- but you will have to saw it in half if you don't want to pay tax'.
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Old 15.04.2012, 18:40
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Re: Cross-border shoppers targeted by campaign

I think everyone has a choice to where they shop,if you live in Switzerland you pay tax to Switzerland,you pay your TV Radio tax ,you pay your Dog Tax,Garbage bags ect,so i do not see as a problem if you wish to shop in France,Germany,or Italy or Austria.
And i do see a lot of Swiss shoping in Germany France.
After all we live in a free world with liberty of movement no
So if peoples wish to shop in another country i do not see as a problem
i grew up in South Of France and a lot of peoples used to go shop in Italy as it was cheaper and they could find different products everyone was relax about it.
I will imagine if you are a single Mom or Dad and have two kids you wish to offer the best to them and going to Germany France will allow you to buy more with a less then 4000 CHF salary.
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Old 15.04.2012, 18:54
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Re: Cross-border shoppers targeted by campaign

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I can agree with you...Even though I understand the need for people to run across the border to shop it seems so demeaning in a way. People want the Swiss quality of life but do not want to pay for it. I don't know anyone who jumps across the border to shop. After the travel there, shopping, coming back, and so on, are people really saving?

I guess if I want to buy a Cartier watch for 25,000chf and they have it in Germany for 19,000 it may be worth it. But for little tidbits and the like it seems so tedious and, well, tacky. I have a friend who owns an advertising agency he would never consider running across the border to buy meats and bread...lol Maybe it is a certain income bracket that does this? I cannot see a CEO running to Germany or France to buy a slab of meat, cheese, and a bottle of wine. But like I mentioned earlier I understand why others do it, but "to me" it seems somewhat indignant. I value my time more...
Well the whole concept of the EU & Schengen & bi-lateral agreements is to have one single common market without consumers having to worry about which side of artificial internal borders (that happen to follow a river or other natural feature) they are shopping in.
So the discussion about which side of a border you shop at is getting increasingly out dated. The Swiss businesses will have to look to the future & learn to deal with the changes.
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Old 15.04.2012, 18:57
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Re: Cross-border shoppers targeted by campaign

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Are they checking IDs/passports or are they just checking for imported goods?
Generally the Swiss cstoms have a habit of asking for passports, if they get into any conversation then run into their hut to check you out.

My Ex lived on the border, one day I got controlled driving the car into France to park, I returned on foot 1 minute later & the same idiot checked my passport again on his system. I said how could anything of changed in under 2 minutes. He was pissed as I refused to talk to him in German! He had seen me go in & out of the next house several 100 times, he knew exactly who I was.
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Old 15.04.2012, 18:59
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Re: Cross-border shoppers targeted by campaign

I never ever take my passport when going to France - and they never ask- only the 'anything to declare?'

The other day we had to go to Bern very early in the morning - so got caught out with the frontaliers run - the queue at the Ballaigues-Vallorbe was about 3km and took 25 mins! They are stopping frontaliers who are taking stuff to sell at work to Swiss colleagues!

Last edited by Odile; 15.04.2012 at 19:18.
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