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  #161  
Old 17.04.2012, 15:06
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Re: Cross-border shoppers targeted by campaign

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Exactly my thought. What is this proclaimed "quality of life"? Could somebody be kind enough and explain this to me please? I find Switzerland to be a borderline 3rd world country with functioning infrastructure. How is it, that we have to spend some much time, money and effort to get our basic need met? Be it laundry, getting internet or simply having your clothes drycleaned...everything seems to be a hassle, with low to no standards and a price tag which would make the sultan of Brunei weep.
Quality of life ? Sure, if you are working on your 3rd million ! I am sure, Mr Blocher enjoys the quality of life. I know somebody who once was invited to the Blocher-Castle, of course not alone but with a few hundreds of other SVP cheermen ! The weather was good and so they mostly were outside anyway. The Catering, Mr Blocher had ordered gave a topclass service, and all present apparently shared the same reactionary ideas
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  #162  
Old 17.04.2012, 15:13
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Re: Cross-border shoppers targeted by campaign

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But you're from SCOTLAND! Anywhere would give you better weather, happier people, better medical care, more money, actually functional infrastructure, etc, etc, etc than where you came from. Probably even Somalia. (Well, definitely on the weather front, anyway.)

Obviously, some are going to find the lifestyle in Switzerland far superior to that in their home countries, while others (from other countries) simply won't. I don't enjoy living in a cramped apartment instead of a large, freestanding house with a garden, and I really miss being minutes from a perfect ocean beach within the confines of a large, international city. For me, the lifestyle "back home" is far preferable to that here. But there must be something keeping me here.

It's been said a thousand times on EF, one way or another: most of us -- not all -- are here voluntarily and have the option to move back, or elsewhere, if we want. Either we make the best of what we've got here (and in my case, that includes enjoying the benefits of living close to France and Germany), or we decide that this place doesn't meet expectations and move on. Probably not to Somalia, though.

By the way, of the five countries I've lived in, I'd rank Switzerland second for quality of (my) life. Not bad, then.
While Switzerland cannot offer you the seaside, you might at least move to a place with a nice LAKE like Zürich, Zug, Luzern, Biel, Neuchâtel, Yverdon, Lausanne, Geneva or Lugano
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  #163  
Old 17.04.2012, 17:16
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Re: Cross-border shoppers targeted by campaign

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Exactly my thought. What is this proclaimed "quality of life"? Could somebody be kind enough and explain this to me please? I find Switzerland to be a borderline 3rd world country with functioning infrastructure. How is it, that we have to spend some much time, money and effort to get our basic need met? Be it laundry, getting internet or simply having your clothes drycleaned...everything seems to be a hassle, with low to no standards and a price tag which would make the sultan of Brunei weep.
I've only experienced shared laundries in holiday apartments and with sick kids it isn't what I would regard as a high standard of living.

Try living with limited internet like they have back home in Oz- that's 3rd world :-)
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  #164  
Old 17.04.2012, 17:35
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Re: Cross-border shoppers targeted by campaign

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I've only experienced shared laundries in holiday apartments and with sick kids it isn't what I would regard as a high standard of living.

Try living with limited internet like they have back home in Oz- that's 3rd world :-)
I don't understand this thing about shared laundry.

When I lived in a shared house in the U.K., we didn't have a washing machine and I used to load everything in a rucksack and cycle down to the laundrette once a week which was a couple of miles away.
I didn't gauge U.K. living standards on my personal predicament.

I have never lived in a flat or house in Switzerland with a shared washing machine but I understand they do exist.
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  #165  
Old 17.04.2012, 18:24
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Re: Cross-border shoppers targeted by campaign

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I don't understand this thing about shared laundry.

(snip)

I have never lived in a flat or house in Switzerland with a shared washing machine but I understand they do exist.
They're extremely common -- not in houses, obviously, but in blocks of flats. The issue is that most people in the countries from which most of the expats on EF come do not have to share a washing machine and can wash their clothes in their own washing machines at their leisure -- even (gasp) on Sundays -- without extended consultation with half a dozen neighbours or booking a time months in advance.

Sure, some of us lived as penniless students without our own laundry facilities. But as gainfully employed adults living in the First World, most of us expect to wash our smalls in the privacy of our own laundries. Or at least in a machine in our own bathrooms (or kitchens, if you're British).
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  #166  
Old 17.04.2012, 19:18
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Re: Cross-border shoppers targeted by campaign

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They're extremely common -- not in houses, obviously, but in blocks of flats. The issue is that most people in the countries from which most of the expats on EF come do not have to share a washing machine and can wash their clothes in their own washing machines at their leisure -- even (gasp) on Sundays -- without extended consultation with half a dozen neighbours or booking a time months in advance.

Sure, some of us lived as penniless students without our own laundry facilities. But as gainfully employed adults living in the First World, most of us expect to wash our smalls in the privacy of our own laundries. Or at least in a machine in our own bathrooms (or kitchens, if you're British).
Most people I know live in flats and participate in that shared washing machine in the basement.
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  #167  
Old 17.04.2012, 19:48
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Re: Cross-border shoppers targeted by campaign

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I always thought it was a consumer right to seek out what is the best value for them. If you are okay with spending 50 CHFs on a couple of filets of fish, then so be it. But if you are willing to drive over the border to get it for half price, that is your right too. Competition is what drives the economy. Maybe cross-border shopping will force some Swiss retailers to lower prices. I am certainly willing to pay a decent percentage price above other places for the quality of life that you get here, but there is a limit. 5.50 chf for a tiny container of Ben and Jerry's ice cream is more than 500% of what it would cost in the US, and more than 300% more than in bordering countries. That is too extreme. Some prices in CH are totally insane. If you live near the border, why would you pay 25 CHF for a pizza when you can go over the border and get it for a 3rd of the price? Patriotism only goes so far before you just simply are getting screwed.

But of course. As said, we actually do quite a bit of our shopping in France, as we are on UK pensions that have lost about 50% of their value since we came here. But for us, the distance to the French supermarket is the same as for the Swiss ones- about 8 mins either way. If you take wear and tear cost on your car and petrol, if it is much further than than, it just starts to become nonsensical on a regular basis. Next time you go, calculate your mileage, (well kms), your petrol/diesel- and calculate the cost. Then time yourself, and work out if it was really worth it and if perhaps you wouldn't have found much more fun things to do at the week-end with your partner or family. But yes - you are free to do it, no prob with me, as I do it myself- but watch out for those customs allowances (I know too well from a couple of days ago that the 19Euro leg of lamb + 20CHF tax, is just not cheap anymore).

I mentioned previously about learning to adapt and use local products - which can be very reasonable. Have ever tried buying fennel or chicory in the UK!!! Today we went to both Migros and Coop down the road - and I remembered another factor - get used to buy special offers. 4 pizzas for 9CHF today. Lots of multiple offers for all sorts of things- got 2 chickens for 15CHF - separated them and one in the freezer, another for tomorrow.
Use 'ze little brain cells' as Poirot would say. Buying foreign food is never cheap.

And Switzerland always reserved the right to put a limit on goods imported- that's their right too, surely. As said before, the cheaper supermarkets like Liddle, Aldi and Dia are very messy and dirty, and the meat is often rubbish.


Washing machine sharing? Well as Tom says, in the UK I had to take a bus for miles to sit in a dirty launderette- hugely expensive (about £4.50 for a machine + about £2 in 20ps for the dryer). But yes - I really do feel for you who live in flats with shared washing-machines, would drive me nuts!

Last edited by Odile; 17.04.2012 at 20:08.
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  #168  
Old 17.04.2012, 19:58
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Re: Cross-border shoppers targeted by campaign

Just thought you might be interested in this little gem.

I work as an advertising photographer & amongst my clients are COOP.
Well, it's been a bit quiet on the old COOP front this year and in a meeting with my agent today I find out why:

Turns out that work has been sparse because COOP have apparently been using mainly German photographers for their recent ad & packaging shoots because they are cheaper.

Brilliant.
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  #169  
Old 17.04.2012, 21:47
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Re: Cross-border shoppers targeted by campaign

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I always thought it was a consumer right to seek out what is the best value for them. If you are okay with spending 50 CHFs on a couple of filets of fish, then so be it. But if you are willing to drive over the border to get it for half price, that is your right too. Competition is what drives the economy. Maybe cross-border shopping will force some Swiss retailers to lower prices. I am certainly willing to pay a decent percentage price above other places for the quality of life that you get here, but there is a limit. 5.50 chf for a tiny container of Ben and Jerry's ice cream is more than 500% of what it would cost in the US, and more than 300% more than in bordering countries. That is too extreme. Some prices in CH are totally insane. If you live near the border, why would you pay 25 CHF for a pizza when you can go over the border and get it for a 3rd of the price? Patriotism only goes so far before you just simply are getting screwed.
CHF 25.-- ??? Look at this
http://www.coopathome.ch/b2c_coop/b2...3461483%29/.do
-- or
http://www.coopathome.ch/b2c_coop/b2...3010816%29/.do
-- or
http://www.leshop.ch/leshop/Main.do/.../-24299/313659
-
you can go to the Supermarkt Wollishofen or to Lidl or to Aldi or to Spar and you nowhere pay more than CHF 10.-- for a Pizza
*********************************************

It of course is the right of the consumer to decide where he goes shopping, but you ought to beer in mind that travelling to Germany is NOT free of charge (neither by public transport nor by car) and that you need your time to get there and back. And it is the right of shops here to inform people about what they have on offer

*************************************************

Swiss retailers in fact HAVE lowered prices in recent months, but their possibilities are restricted by the high real estate prices. If you know that a groundfloor shop on Bahnhofstrasse near Zch-HB costs more per square-meter than a place in Regent Street in London, then you realize how absurd the situation really is. You can say that prices elsewhere are lower which is correct, but the prices per square meter also in other locations are exorbitant.
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  #170  
Old 17.04.2012, 21:48
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Re: Cross-border shoppers targeted by campaign

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They're extremely common -- not in houses, obviously, but in blocks of flats. The issue is that most people in the countries from which most of the expats on EF come do not have to share a washing machine and can wash their clothes in their own washing machines at their leisure -- even (gasp) on Sundays -- without extended consultation with half a dozen neighbours or booking a time months in advance.

Sure, some of us lived as penniless students without our own laundry facilities. But as gainfully employed adults living in the First World, most of us expect to wash our smalls in the privacy of our own laundries. Or at least in a machine in our own bathrooms (or kitchens, if you're British).

Actually, I don't really mind the shared washing machine thing here.
On the plus-side, I don't have to worry about it breaking down, irreparably and me having to fork over 2 or 3 grand for a new one.

And here around, nobody makes a stink if you wash stuff on Sundays (even if it's not officially allowed).
We have two machines for 11 households, but I think some of them have installed their own anyway.

OTOH, I can see why it might be a problem for a family of four or five, who need to wash more often than me.

The only thing I do mind, though, is the Thai wife of my neighbor leaving the washed clothes in the machine for hours after it's ready.

I wouldn't classify a country as 3rd-world according to how fast you can get a dry-cleaning for a suit or how expensive a rib-eye steak is.
I would even go as far as rating Switzerland a "post-consumeristic 1st-world nation", due to the fact that certain products that are maybe too cheap in other places (cars, meat, housing) are too expensive here and thus excessive consumption is reduced.
;-)
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  #171  
Old 17.04.2012, 21:52
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Re: Cross-border shoppers targeted by campaign

Why not get a very cheap washing basket (from France of course) and take her washing out and put in basket, with a note to return basket to you.
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  #172  
Old 17.04.2012, 22:06
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Re: Cross-border shoppers targeted by campaign

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Just thought you might be interested in this little gem.

I work as an advertising photographer & amongst my clients are COOP.
Well, it's been a bit quiet on the old COOP front this year and in a meeting with my agent today I find out why:

Turns out that work has been sparse because COOP have apparently been using mainly German photographers for their recent ad & packaging shoots because they are cheaper.

Brilliant.
Simple. Find out the prices of your German competitors and undercut them. Photomaterial until about 3 years ago was more expensive in Germany than in Switzerland and now is on the same level or at worst some 10% in their favour. We here could easily undercut the German competitors in regard to slides-films ! Of course, the way to go is to get Films from cutprice-suppliers on the UK-Channel-Islands. That supplier even including transport is some 20% cheaper than a supplier in Sargans/Vaduz. Then check up your procedures, and drop whatever is neither needed nor appreciated.
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  #173  
Old 17.04.2012, 22:17
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Re: Cross-border shoppers targeted by campaign

And getting to Italy costs you CHF10 in bus fares...

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Around here I pay around CHF 17 for a pizza, and in Italy EUR 12, so not a huge difference.

Tom
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Old 17.04.2012, 22:19
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Re: Cross-border shoppers targeted by campaign

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They're extremely common -- not in houses, obviously, but in blocks of flats. The issue is that most people in the countries from which most of the expats on EF come do not have to share a washing machine and can wash their clothes in their own washing machines at their leisure -- even (gasp) on Sundays -- without extended consultation with half a dozen neighbours or booking a time months in advance.
Yes, I know. But, there are a lot of places (especially newer ones) that don't have shared facilities.
My wife made it a condition that we would only accept a flat with it's own facilities.
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Old 17.04.2012, 23:01
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Re: Cross-border shoppers targeted by campaign

But on German prices he would not make enough to be able to shop in Switzerland. He would have to shop in Germany!

Cheers,
Nick

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Simple. Find out the prices of your German competitors and undercut them.
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Old 17.04.2012, 23:03
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Re: Cross-border shoppers targeted by campaign

We have a very small Lidl near to us: in fact possibly one of smallest for miles around. Counted the "foreigners" parked: two Dutch registered cars and five Swiss - mind you...... it was the middle of the afternoon, so WAY below the average. The larger Lidl in Margencel is full of GE numberplates!!!
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Old 17.04.2012, 23:07
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Re: Cross-border shoppers targeted by campaign

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Just thought you might be interested in this little gem.

I work as an advertising photographer & amongst my clients are COOP.
Well, it's been a bit quiet on the old COOP front this year and in a meeting with my agent today I find out why:

Turns out that work has been sparse because COOP have apparently been using mainly German photographers for their recent ad & packaging shoots because they are cheaper.

Brilliant.
As was said some many years ago "you can't beat the market".
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  #178  
Old 17.04.2012, 23:09
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Re: Cross-border shoppers targeted by campaign

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CHF 25.-- ??? Look at this
http://www.coopathome.ch/b2c_coop/b2...3461483%29/.do
-- or
http://www.coopathome.ch/b2c_coop/b2...3010816%29/.do
-- or
http://www.leshop.ch/leshop/Main.do/.../-24299/313659
-
you can go to the Supermarkt Wollishofen or to Lidl or to Aldi or to Spar and you nowhere pay more than CHF 10.-- for a Pizza
*********************************************

It of course is the right of the consumer to decide where he goes shopping, but you ought to beer in mind that travelling to Germany is NOT free of charge (neither by public transport nor by car) and that you need your time to get there and back. And it is the right of shops here to inform people about what they have on offer

*************************************************

Swiss retailers in fact HAVE lowered prices in recent months, but their possibilities are restricted by the high real estate prices. If you know that a groundfloor shop on Bahnhofstrasse near Zch-HB costs more per square-meter than a place in Regent Street in London, then you realize how absurd the situation really is. You can say that prices elsewhere are lower which is correct, but the prices per square meter also in other locations are exorbitant.
I assume the OP was talking about pizza prices in restaurants?
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Old 17.04.2012, 23:13
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Re: Cross-border shoppers targeted by campaign

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I don't understand this thing about shared laundry.

When I lived in a shared house in the U.K., we didn't have a washing machine and I used to load everything in a rucksack and cycle down to the laundrette once a week which was a couple of miles away.
I didn't gauge U.K. living standards on my personal predicament.

I have never lived in a flat or house in Switzerland with a shared washing machine but I understand they do exist.
True but the difference is that when you get to the launderette you have a high probability that you will find a wash machine that is available to use.

Whereas if you live in a flat or house in Switzerland with a shared washing machine and you really need to do washing (for example due to sickness) you could be 4 or 5 or more days away from your allocated date/time which is a real pain in the ar*e.

I know have been there.
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  #180  
Old 17.04.2012, 23:46
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Re: Cross-border shoppers targeted by campaign

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Simple. Find out the prices of your German competitors and undercut them. Photomaterial until about 3 years ago was more expensive in Germany than in Switzerland and now is on the same level or at worst some 10% in their favour. We here could easily undercut the German competitors in regard to slides-films ! Of course, the way to go is to get Films from cutprice-suppliers on the UK-Channel-Islands. That supplier even including transport is some 20% cheaper than a supplier in Sargans/Vaduz. Then check up your procedures, and drop whatever is neither needed nor appreciated.
My point was more the hypocrisy of COOP whinging about cross boarder shoppers, yet doing it themselves.

Nevermind.

(oh, & whilst i obviously appreciate your rare insight on film prices Wolli, up this end, we've kinda been digital for the past decade )
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