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-   -   Merck Serono layoffs - up to 900 redundancies in Geneva (https://www.englishforum.ch/swiss-politics-news/144602-merck-serono-layoffs-up-900-redundancies-geneva.html)

Dack Rambo 01.05.2012 09:14

Re: Merck Serono layoffs - up to 900 redundancies in Geneva
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ARC_VD (Post 1549020)
IMHO Geneva and Vaud's problems steem from the fact that these cantons were in severe economic crisis during the 90's when Zurich and other swiss german cantons were doing not so bad, that created a serious burden on the budgets of these romand cantons that had to be fought via higher taxes and in the long-term this has provoked companies leaving those cantons and a vicious circle, the only solution is for politicians to understand that they need to lower corporate and personal taxes to gain more revenues but that creates a deficit in the short and medium term they can't afford right now, but they should do it if they don't want to continue losing business to other cantons.

Although I have to add that actually la romandie has been growing faster and creating more jobs than their german counterpart for more than a decade, but the 90's crisis is still felt and it also has France and its higher unemployment rate as neighbour instead of Baden-Wûrttemberg.

I would have said that Geneva is way overcrowded and the last thing it needs is to attract more businesses. Where would the employees of any new businesses live?

jonbvn 01.05.2012 09:39

Re: Merck Serono layoffs - up to 900 redundancies in Geneva
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by fatmanfilms (Post 1548914)
Why not rent in Switzerland, does not have to be Geneva? then you will get Swiss unemployment pay, & can retain all your Swiss insurances. The French home will become your residance secondare.

Would an owner accept a tenant who they knew was due to be made redundant? Remember you have to show them your contract of employment.

Anjela 01.05.2012 09:50

Re: Merck Serono layoffs - up to 900 redundancies in Geneva
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by fatmanfilms (Post 1548914)
Why not rent in Switzerland, does not have to be Geneva? then you will get Swiss unemployment pay, & can retain all your Swiss insurances. The French home will become your residance secondare.

.

Unfortunately one of the conditions of the mortgage (using 3ième pillier as a deposit) is that you live in the property as your primary residence, so I don't think that'll work. But we'll check.
Moving, even temporarily, back into Switzerland might be difficult as well, don't you have to prove you can support yourself financially if you don't have a job? Also to be looked into.

It's early days as negociations are just starting, a lot of talk about start-ups which might be fruitful.
I suppose it would be possible to buy a small place somewhere so that we could visit the family more easily.... but base ourselves in the UK.

Guest 01.05.2012 10:00

Re: Merck Serono layoffs - up to 900 redundancies in Geneva
 
Quote:

What a brilliant idea - you could just rent a studio in Vallée de Joux or even here, where rents are very low.

I actually know people who own apartments which are empty right now- so could arrange a contract in a jiffy.
Do you really think it's that easy......

Why not sell up in the UK and invest the money in France ? Money and houses etc are nice but you can't eat them and you only live once...fine it was your mother's house but i guess if you needed money and used the proceeds sensibly she would not have minded
U

Shorrick Mk2 01.05.2012 10:35

Re: Merck Serono layoffs - up to 900 redundancies in Geneva
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Wollishofener (Post 1549193)
The restaurants in Geneva have not declined, but gastronomy in Zürich has improved.

Well actually they have (but probably difficult to see from a distance without setting foot in them...). The quota on the maximum number of bars / restaurants has been abolished and ever since there's been a gaggle of restaurants opening up, driving prices and quality down. As a result, the turnover ratio is about 60 to 70%.

Quote:

> the rail-station below Zch-Airport now is a very busy train-station with the trains going on towards the north-east --- while all trains to Cointrin not only go through Cornavin but fully terminate in Cointrin
Where do you suggest they might go after Cointrin?!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wollishofener (Post 1549196)
Geneva in the 1950ies and 60ies had far more leftwingers in political office than later. And Geneva Social Democrats were in fact Socialists. Geneva in the 1970ies and 80ies moved towards the centre and even the political right, so that you can say that it was lack of socialism which was bad for Geneva.

Haha! Yeh right.

Dack Rambo 01.05.2012 10:46

Re: Merck Serono layoffs - up to 900 redundancies in Geneva
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Anjela (Post 1549231)
.

Unfortunately one of the conditions of the mortgage (using 3ième pillier as a deposit) is that you live in the property as your primary residence, so I don't think that'll work. But we'll check.
Moving, even temporarily, back into Switzerland might be difficult as well, don't you have to prove you can support yourself financially if you don't have a job? Also to be looked into.

It's early days as negociations are just starting, a lot of talk about start-ups which might be fruitful.
I suppose it would be possible to buy a small place somewhere so that we could visit the family more easily.... but base ourselves in the UK.

If your husband can qualify for 80% of his previous salary (unemployment payments), that would cover the rent of an apartment in a town like, say, Yverdon which is in commuting distance until your husband actually loses his job. You say you will sell the property in France anyway so the mortgage conditions are no longer an issue.

Dack Rambo 01.05.2012 10:47

Re: Merck Serono layoffs - up to 900 redundancies in Geneva
 
Quote:

Money and houses etc are nice but you can't eat them and you only live once...
so true, better to be near family in a rented flat than all alone in a huge house where you know no one

fatmanfilms 01.05.2012 10:50

Re: Merck Serono layoffs - up to 900 redundancies in Geneva
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jonbvn (Post 1549223)
Would an owner accept a tenant who they knew was due to be made redundant? Remember you have to show them your contract of employment.

They would only know if you told them!

fatmanfilms 01.05.2012 10:53

Re: Merck Serono layoffs - up to 900 redundancies in Geneva
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Anjela (Post 1549231)
.

Unfortunately one of the conditions of the mortgage (using 3ième pillier as a deposit) is that you live in the property as your primary residence, so I don't think that'll work. But we'll check.
Moving, even temporarily, back into Switzerland might be difficult as well, don't you have to prove you can support yourself financially if you don't have a job? Also to be looked into.

It's early days as negociations are just starting, a lot of talk about start-ups which might be fruitful.
I suppose it would be possible to buy a small place somewhere so that we could visit the family more easily.... but base ourselves in the UK.

Your unemployment pay is enough to support you in CH!, your husband still is working.......
Don't bother to mention anything to the French Bank, in any case you will be living there again in 2 years!

Anjela 01.05.2012 11:04

Re: Merck Serono layoffs - up to 900 redundancies in Geneva
 
The mortgage is with a swiss bank, the same one his salary goes into so I think they'd notice!
I don't actually mind selling the UK house; although it was my mother's house I never lived in it so am not that attached to it. Just think I'd be clobbered for Capital Gains tax which I'd like to avoid if possible so selling this one and re-investing that money somewhere would make more sense.

Even buying somewhere in Switzerland could be an option, if prices really are so much better in central Switzerland. I've only ever really looked at houses around Geneva and that's a scary hobby to have!

There's a lot to think about and I'm grateful to everyone here for their suggestions. Hopefully something will come out of the talks that are going on, even if it's just something that makes our final decision easier.

fatmanfilms 01.05.2012 11:13

Re: Merck Serono layoffs - up to 900 redundancies in Geneva
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Anjela (Post 1549288)
The mortgage is with a swiss bank, the same one his salary goes into so I think they'd notice!
I don't actually mind selling the UK house; although it was my mother's house I never lived in it so am not that attached to it. Just think I'd be clobbered for Capital Gains tax which I'd like to avoid if possible so selling this one and re-investing that money somewhere would make more sense.

Even buying somewhere in Switzerland could be an option, if prices really are so much better in central Switzerland. I've only ever really looked at houses around Geneva and that's a scary hobby to have!

There's a lot to think about and I'm grateful to everyone here for their suggestions. Hopefully something will come out of the talks that are going on, even if it's just something that makes our final decision easier.

I doub't the Swiss bank activly monitor your bank statements, in any case how would they notice from the statements that the French home was not your main residence?

What is your connection with the UK? If you have not lived there for at least 5 tax years you won't have a UK CGT liability.
If you did the base value is the value on the date you inherited it.

I would be more worried about your French CGT liability being a French resident. If your renting the UK house there is a reasonable chance that your liable to French taxation on your Swiss income as well.......

Dack Rambo 01.05.2012 11:18

Re: Merck Serono layoffs - up to 900 redundancies in Geneva
 
I hope things work out well. If it is possible to get CH unemployment benefits that would be a big help. Is there anyone who could give advice on this? Perhaps a union representative?

Anjela 01.05.2012 12:06

Re: Merck Serono layoffs - up to 900 redundancies in Geneva
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by fatmanfilms (Post 1549293)

What is your connection with the UK? If you have not lived there for at least 5 tax years you won't have a UK CGT liability.
If you did the base value is the value on the date you inherited it.

I would be more worried about your French CGT liability being a French resident. If your renting the UK house there is a reasonable chance that your liable to French taxation on your Swiss income as well.......

I pay UK tax on the rental income from the house there, and am taxed as a single person for this as the house is in my name only. This is off-set against my liability for french tax on that income. B-in-Law is a tax officer in the UK so I know this is ok. The house has almost doubled in value since I inherited it and I need to live there for a year to re-establish that it is my primary residence before sellng it.
We pay Swiss tax on our swiss income (taxed at source, Geneva insists on this for all Frontaliers, they then pass on a proportion to the french) so both of those are already covered. We have no income in France.

fatmanfilms 01.05.2012 12:30

Re: Merck Serono layoffs - up to 900 redundancies in Geneva
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Anjela (Post 1549323)
I pay UK tax on the rental income from the house there, and am taxed as a single person for this as the house is in my name only. This is off-set against my liability for french tax on that income. B-in-Law is a tax officer in the UK so I know this is ok. The house has almost doubled in value since I inherited it and I need to live there for a year to re-establish that it is my primary residence before sellng it.
We pay Swiss tax on our swiss income (taxed at source, Geneva insists on this for all Frontaliers, they then pass on a proportion to the french) so both of those are already covered. We have no income in France.

If your not a UK resident your not liable to UK CGT, however being a French resident your liable to French CGT on world wide gains & wealth tax on world wide assets-

If you were to live in the UK house & sell it, not all of the gain would be CGT free, you have to move in within 12 months of ownership & sell within 3 years of departing to be free of CGT in the UK.

You will be entitled to the Full UK personal allowance on that rental income, however as a French resident it should also be declaired in France, any UK tax payable is crediteed to any French liability.

The system of paying your tax in CH when living in France assumes that 90% of your income comes from your employment in CH, if your renting a property in the UK that may not be the case. French residents would then be taxable on World-wide income & gains in France. I think you need to take specialest tax advice.

Anjela 01.05.2012 12:49

Re: Merck Serono layoffs - up to 900 redundancies in Geneva
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by fatmanfilms (Post 1549336)
If your not a UK resident your not liable to UK CGT, however being a French resident your liable to French CGT on world wide gains & wealth tax on world wide assets-

If you were to live in the UK house & sell it, not all of the gain would be CGT free, you have to move in within 12 months of ownership & sell within 3 years of departing to be free of CGT in the UK.

You will be entitled to the Full UK personal allowance on that rental income, however as a French resident it should also be declaired in France, any UK tax payable is crediteed to any French liability.

The system of paying your tax in CH when living in France assumes that 90% of your income comes from your employment in CH, if your renting a property in the UK that may not be the case. French residents would then be taxable on World-wide income & gains in France. I think you need to take specialest tax advice.

The rental income is well within the limits, that's been established. Also that I am treated separately for it. B-in-Law specialises in this sort of tax question for the Inland Revenue.
The Geneva system is different to all the other cantons, and seems to take precedence over the french one (as in 'it gets first bite of the cherry').

As for the question of which house to sell first, thatll be something we look at harder once we know where we're going to be in a year or so! Whichever it is we're bound to get clobbered by someone..... but we will seek advice here before making a final decision.

Wollishofener 01.05.2012 13:14

Re: Merck Serono layoffs - up to 900 redundancies in Geneva
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dack Rambo (Post 1549217)
I would have said that Geneva is way overcrowded and the last thing it needs is to attract more businesses. Where would the employees of any new businesses live?

-
Geneva already in the 1970ies, according to the father in law of my Godfather in Geneva, had twice the population of Zürich by square kilometer and the houses by statistical average were about 1.6 of those in the Zürich area (I cannot prove these numbers as the old gent is long gone, he was 98 then, but still very active and up-to-date, a flu a year later however was his end). I however still trust his word. My Godfather had rescued him and his wife out of the Hungary of the 1950ies. To rescue relatives out of sh.... apparently was his favourite pastime :D

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shorrick Mk2 (Post 1549272)
Well actually they have (but probably difficult to see from a distance without setting foot in them...). The quota on the maximum number of bars / restaurants has been abolished and ever since there's been a gaggle of restaurants opening up, driving prices and quality down. As a result, the turnover ratio is about 60 to 70%.

-
most of all, the "Wirteprüfung" which was xenophobic and a miserable thing also was abolished. Quality in reality improved as more competition arrived. That SVP-GastroSuisse chap Mr Bachmann always talks about a declining quality just refers to the fact that some of his buddies were driven out of business.

Sure, there now are too many places in many areas, and some restaurant owners (of some excellent places :o) are bloody amateurs, and may finally fail. which is a pity, but if you say yes to a free market, this is a result


Quote:

Originally Posted by Shorrick Mk2 (Post 1549272)
Where do you suggest they might go after Cointrin?!

-
onward to Lyon, onward to Annecy (Aix-les-Bains > Grenoble), onward to Dijon (directly, with connections to Paris), onward to Chamonix - Aosta - Torino

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dack Rambo (Post 1549278)
so true, better to be near family in a rented flat than all alone in a huge house where you know no one

--
reminds me of an aunt, who had lived in Basel, Mülhausen, London, Khartoum and London again and then in Basel again, but after retirement decided to return to Stein-am-Rhein where she knew nobody and where people did not understand her views. She travelled around, also abroad, with 86 on a roundtrip in China and with 88 on a roundtrip in Egypt on the Nile, and was in constant correspondence with some folks of the Anglican Church in London and Canterbury, but was a bit isolated from the very deeply provincial reality of her hometown for 25 years. We all agreed that she better should have stayed on in Basel ......................

fatmanfilms 01.05.2012 13:36

Re: Merck Serono layoffs - up to 900 redundancies in Geneva
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Anjela (Post 1549348)
The rental income is well within the limits, that's been established. Also that I am treated separately for it. B-in-Law specialises in this sort of tax question for the Inland Revenue.
The Geneva system is different to all the other cantons, and seems to take precedence over the french one (as in 'it gets first bite of the cherry').

As for the question of which house to sell first, thatll be something we look at harder once we know where we're going to be in a year or so! Whichever it is we're bound to get clobbered by someone..... but we will seek advice here before making a final decision.

Your worrying about UK tax liability, you need to take advise on potential French liability.
I know how the Geneva system works for people living in France, however it assumes that you don't have much other income, you rent a house in the UK so the game rules change.......

Anjela 01.05.2012 13:46

Re: Merck Serono layoffs - up to 900 redundancies in Geneva
 
I'm not worrying over-much about tax at the moment, I've already taken advice about the rental income from the UK and it is within the allowed limits for all countries concerned.

The bigger picture will be looked at when we arrive at a point where we have to decide what to sell, if we have to sell.

fatmanfilms 01.05.2012 13:56

Re: Merck Serono layoffs - up to 900 redundancies in Geneva
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Anjela (Post 1549385)
I'm not worrying over-much about tax at the moment, I've already taken advice about the rental income from the UK and it is within the allowed limits for all countries concerned.
.

Is the person giving the advise is aware if the implications of the Geneva / French tax agreement? It's very specific & rental income can substancially change the situation.

The good news is the French can only go back 3 years, in the UK it's unlimited as the statute of limitations does not apply!

ceppych 01.05.2012 14:00

Re: Merck Serono layoffs - up to 900 redundancies in Geneva
 
Hey fatmanfilms! Posting at lunchtime on your birthday!
Hasn't anyone taken you out to celebrate.
Shame on your friends :(


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