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-   -   Merck Serono layoffs - up to 900 redundancies in Geneva (https://www.englishforum.ch/swiss-politics-news/144602-merck-serono-layoffs-up-900-redundancies-geneva.html)

acf69 03.05.2012 22:25

Re: Merck Serono layoffs - up to 900 redundancies in Geneva
 
Quote:

Yesterday I was holding a stall for the Magasins du Monde at the Fete du Travail in my native village, and one of the speakers was Alain Berset, Home Affairs secretary. He deplored the situation with Merck Serono, and the underlying attitudes of big corporations which are given huge tax breaks here in CH, then just move on when those come to an end, without a care of thought for their workers.

A very pleasant, simple and personable chap, I was quite impressed.

Sorry Mr. Berset, but you cannot have it both ways. You want to attract big companies and give them huge tax breaks to lure them, because there is no real other incentive to have your HQ in Geneva from a financial standpoint. You than get all the income tax and VAT that the executives generate, but of course you refuse to build proper housing and infrastructure (yes we want CEOs making millions but please take the train). The lack of housing contributes to an incredible high cost of living, meaning those same companies must pay ridiculous salaries to give people a proper standard of living.

You cannot blame companies for looking at the cost of operating in Geneva, with or without tax breaks, the problems the workforce has to have proper housing options and deciding there are better alternatives elsewhere. Companies open and close regional offices all the time, but the arrogance in Geneva is that we should only attract but if someone decides to leave it is corporate greed.

I am not giving Merck a complete free pass, but politicians should look at their selves as well. Well, actually they are politicians for a reason I guess.

Lastly, wait until the EU turns on the pressure to get rid of the Swiss individual tax deals by levying import duties on goods from Switzerland. The statutory tax rate in Switzerland is 24% and when all the tax breaks will be gone in 3-5 years you will see a mass exodus of companies.

Novartis in Nyon was about to close down, there are talks that P&G will follow and it could get very ugly soon.

Pachyderm 03.05.2012 23:30

Re: Merck Serono layoffs - up to 900 redundancies in Geneva
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by fatmanfilms (Post 1551368)
When investing there is no guaranteed 100 or 105 units of profit, if there was the majority of fund managers would go for 105% because thats exactly what they are paid to do! unless of course they were running an 'ethical' fund.

I don't seek admiration or care what people think of my investments, I seek to buy what I think is attractive at the time, it's rather like buying something in Germany because it's 30% cheaper this week!

When investing there is no guaranteed 100 or 105 units of profit. I never met anyone who intended to loose money in any business venture althrough many do.

No, there is no guarantee. That wasn't my point. I wanted to illustrate that there are rewards and motives for success in business beyond the merely financial.

Only a small proportion of businesses are publicly-owned, and you're right that share-holding investors tend to be much more purely profit-driven than smaller private businesses. But this is largely because investors (and I'm one too) feel very remote from the actual shop floor of the businesses they have a stake in. I have a range of investments in companies I know nothing whatsoever about. It's sometimes easy to forget that there are real people involved in these entities that are for most people just cells in a spreadsheet or lines on a graph. If we knew more about the values of some of these businesses we invest in we might well consider alternatives. This is probably why big corporations spend so much on PR, investor relations, and high profile Corporate Social Responsibility programmes.

Breezy 04.05.2012 00:33

Re: Merck Serono layoffs - up to 900 redundancies in Geneva
 
Sorry to hear this Anjela, it must be gut wrenching for you and your husband / family when you are so near the finish line. I recommend taking heed from the earlier post from Pachyderm, it really is true. Good post Pachyderm btw.

You do seem to have some options and some decisions based on current circumstances from what I think you have said and some other people have given good advice. I would follow up on fatmanfilms lead as he seems to be pretty well versed in tax law (well a lot more than me) to at least explore the options.

I see you rent out the property in the UK although it seems clear that it is not enough to cover your full mortgage here. Are you in a position to sublet any part of your property in France? You are obviously looking for revenue streams for the next three years to become mortgage free. Are any of the rest of the family willing to help the shortfall in exchange for a later stream of payments from the UK property? Perhaps an arrangement can be made there. I wont even go into an inheritance discussion but it might make sense as the children and possibly grand children stand to benefit eventually. I know you said that the property in the UK has gone up substantially, so is there any chance in getting a home equity loan to raise the cash to pay off the mortgage in Switzerland immediately and then using the rent from the UK property to pay off the HEL? I would talk to an independent UK mortgage broker (ask friends for recommendations) as they can get quite creative to find solutions for you.

Again I dont know about the family situation around Geneva but presuming that is where they are based, is there any scope for living together for a while until this time period phases out? Are they working and able to provide for the short term income stream? I know I would help my family out in a similar situation, especially as it would mean a free call on baby sitting :D.

Some choices based on current the situation may be unpalatable, as you already said, such as selling current house and renting nearby. I understand what the feeling of being an owner versus a renter is plus what you probably went through to get there. How about downsizing? I am guessing that the house in France is large if the mortgage is substantial and your UK property rent doesnt cover it. I can well imagine your thinking is I dont want to sell my lovely house that I spent years working for and choosing and decorating and making my home. Fair enough and lets put that somewhere on the backburner or even down the back of the oven! Im sure there is a creative solution that will work. Like how about taking a lovely holiday in a really cheap country for the three years and renting out your lovely home?

So this is a few things I can see on your current situation without knowing much and I hope you are able to work a good solution.

In terms of other employment, I see you alluded to start ups and the like. That is encouraging and I suppose there are the other 900 skilled workers from this industry who might have some strong ideas and capital behind them. I hope your husband is keeping his network strong (and you too). I dont know your industry well, but to me medicines are one of the fields that seems to be at the forefront of change. That can be a good thing, especially if your husband is well recognised in his area. Could he offer his services on a consultant basis? This could be a worthy subject of discussion with his bosses who may wish to have him at hand. He could also offer his services to competitors internationally, at a price. If you start thinking creatively, he could offer his services to other fields too. Finance often looks for experts in industry. I would think about setting up a consultancy with a few others and offer their research or insight to firms that have niche funds in biotech etc. Very popular these days. Giving seminars to industry professionals in these areas could be a nice way to earn money and go on trips around the world. We had a professor and his wife join our team on our offsite to talk about alternative energy.

Anyway, once you have had a sufficient brandy / gin / cup of tea or three, I trust you and the family will work out the next step of the journey as there will inevitably be options out there that come into view.

Best of luck






Anjela 04.05.2012 01:23

Re: Merck Serono layoffs - up to 900 redundancies in Geneva
 
Sorry, getting slightly annoyed now.

My tax affairs are sorted, I would have thought that having both a swiss accountant and a UK IRS inspector in the family would have covered my situation to anyone's satisfaction.

No, it is not possible to 'share' my house in France. nor rent part of it out; it is small and semi-detached, not enough room for us really, let alone four other adults and a child. It has taken us thirty six years of marriage to finally get this far, why should I give it up?
As for a 'holiday', what planet are you on... it's not mine, sad to say.

My sons can't take over any part of our house as that would cause them CH permit problems (refusnicks on the army service issue). They're only just starting to get themselves settled, I know they would help if they could (but we still pay the health insurance for our youngest as his salary isn't great), and I don't think that I should even expect them to; their swiss wives/girl-friends also being a different and unknown area.

I only have the damned house in England because my mother was a victim of NHS incompetance at just 70, I'd much rather have her with me today.

We have had very bad news today on the already laughable 'offer' M-S is proposing and I don't really don't want to hear anymore at the moment. I know most of you are just trying to help, but at the moment I've had enough.

Again, sorry.

rainer_d 04.05.2012 01:52

Re: Merck Serono layoffs - up to 900 redundancies in Geneva
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Anjela (Post 1551501)
Sorry, getting slightly annoyed now.

...

We have had very bad news today on the already laughable 'offer' M-S is proposing and I don't really don't want to hear anymore at the moment. I know most of you are just trying to help, but at the moment I've had enough.

Again, sorry.


Understood - after all, the opposite of well-done is well-intended ;-)
Some problems are just not simple enough to be solved in a six-line forum posting (or one hundred and sixty-five of them).

adrianlondon 04.05.2012 02:05

Re: Merck Serono layoffs - up to 900 redundancies in Geneva
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Anjela (Post 1551501)
at the moment I've had enough.

Log out! Sounds like a simple piece of advice, but it could be worth taking a break.

If the rest of this forum amuses you, then you can unsubscribe from this thread (near the top of the page - thread tools - unsubscribe) which'll stop it from being highlighted as having new posts.

Wollishofener 04.05.2012 04:18

Re: Merck Serono layoffs - up to 900 redundancies in Geneva
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Shorrick Mk2 (Post 1549410)


Quote:
http://www.englishforum.ch/images/bb.../12n3_01on.png


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most of all, the "Wirteprüfung" which was xenophobic and a miserable thing also was abolished. Quality in reality improved as more competition arrived. That SVP-GastroSuisse chap Mr Bachmann always talks about a declining quality just refers to the fact that some of his buddies were driven out of business.

Sure, there now are too many places in many areas, and some restaurant owners (of some excellent places :o) are bloody amateurs, and may finally fail. which is a pity, but if you say yes to a free market, this is a result





I don't know what Mr. Bachmann says, but out of experience the quality HAS gone down. And I doubt a 70% turnover indicates merely that SOME are amateurs.

Out of experience, the quality has gone UP, and not only a bit. The choices have improved. The "ancien regime" had failed in every possible respect.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Shorrick Mk2 (Post 1549410)

Quote:
http://www.englishforum.ch/images/bb...es/12n3_01.png

onward to Lyon, onward to Annecy (Aix-les-Bains > Grenoble), onward to Dijon (directly, with connections to Paris), onward to Chamonix - Aosta - Torino




Absolutely great ideas - luckily we have the Bourbines to point out the oversights of the Welsch...

Have you ever tried to take the train from Geneva to Annecy? Or to Chamonix? Let me know how that works out :rolleyes: - try convincing the French they should build a train track though before planning your trip...

Chamonix - Aosta? That's also a great plan - someone should get them pesky Italians to dig the tunnel first.

The trains to Lyon and Dijon leave directly from downtown - no business case linking GVA airport with Lyon or Paris considering they already have several of their own...

Or do you just randomly point at cities on the map and say "hey it's a great idea, we should have a train to there" :D

I don't know what Mr. Bachmann says, but out of experience the quality HAS gone down. And I doubt a 70% turnover indicates merely that SOME are amateurs.



A) I tried to find decent connections between Geneva and Annecy, and totally failed. Mom years ago told me that there were trains between Eaux-Vives an Annecy back in 1937, don't know what has become of that line

B) dig tunnels is what needs to be done often. There was no tunnel between Zürich-HB and Stadelhofen, but it got buillt. There is no tunnel between Zürich-HB and Oerlikon, but a station-dépendence below the Bahnhofplatz and a tunnel to Oerlikon is built. Sihltalbahn and Uetlibergbahn terminated at Selnau, but a tunnel below the Sihl to Zürich HB was built, so that both lines now go into HB. A tunnel for fast trains to Lugano/Milano from HB to Thalwil was built, both to speed up those trains and to relieve Zch-Enge of unnecessary through trains. The Italians `? Their building train links to Milano-Malpensa is slow, but they gradually improve. I a few years ago went by train from Malpensa to Milano-Norte which is a good connection.

B-2) Yes, what I point to is a co-operation with SNCF.
B-2-B) Such is normal. For a century, train-links between Schaffhausen and Thayingen/SH/CH were provided by DB. The best link between Schaffhausen-Bhf and Basel was and is provided by the DB. ICE trains of DB link Zürich and Stuttgart and are used by countless passengers between Zürich and Schaffhausen. ICE trains coming from ...... are here used as connectors between Basel and Zürich.

C) what you say about Geneva on one side and Lyon/Paris on the other might have been said about Zürich-Airport, but now, many trains are routed VIA the airport. The idea therefore would be to re-route Geneva-Lyon trains via Cointrin, out of Cornavin, or via Cointrin INSTEAD of via Cornavin.

D) to point at cities on the map and say ""hey it's a great idea, we should have a train to there"" was exactly what Alfred von Escher DID say, AND DID build the links !

Happily into the 20th Century, the trains from the western side of the Zürichsee went through what now is the Tunnelstrasse. The trams from downtown stopped on one side of the tracks and people had to walk over to the other side to get into the waiting trams towards Wollishofen. The problem was solved by building a tunnel from Wollishofen towards the then not yet existing Zch-Enge-Bhf, which had to be build, AND another tunnel from Enge to Wiedikon-Bhf.

YES, to achieve progress where different national railways are involved of course IS complicated, and IS difficult. Progress however means that people locally first of all are ready to accept their town to take over a part of the costs of new innovative projects and not rely entirely on the union.

Wollishofener 04.05.2012 04:48

Re: Merck Serono layoffs - up to 900 redundancies in Geneva
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by fatmanfilms (Post 1550830)
Unfortunately he is missing the point, the board of direcretors has a legal obligation to it's shareholders, a business is about making money for it's shareholders, so paying less tax would get a thumbs up.

You are right to some extent, what Mr Berset however pointed out was that some companies start up business using tax deals, but when those tax-agreements end get out. You now speak about "obligation to the shareholders" without proving that to establish shop here for a few years really was a good idea. Many such companies made big MIS-investments. Ty paid a lot simply to get up, they paid far too much on rubbish places, and they invested far too much money which could have been used elsewhere far more efficiently for long-term gains.

Shorrick Mk2 04.05.2012 09:19

Re: Merck Serono layoffs - up to 900 redundancies in Geneva
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Wollishofener (Post 1551526)
Out of experience, the quality has gone UP, and not only a bit. The choices have improved. The "ancien regime" had failed in every possible respect.

When is the last time you dined out in Geneva? Just so that we can gauge your experience.

Quote:


A) I tried to find decent connections between Geneva and Annecy, and totally failed. Mom years ago told me that there were trains between Eaux-Vives an Annecy back in 1937, don't know what has become of that line
1937! As always - the most relevant examples ever... Is that the time we had Zeppelins between New York and Berlin?

Quote:

B) dig tunnels is what needs to be done often. There was no tunnel between Zürich-HB and Stadelhofen, but it got buillt. There is no tunnel between Zürich-HB and Oerlikon, but a station-dépendence below the Bahnhofplatz and a tunnel to Oerlikon is built. Sihltalbahn and Uetlibergbahn terminated at Selnau, but a tunnel below the Sihl to Zürich HB was built, so that both lines now go into HB

I don't know what fantasy world you live in to compare a base tunnel under the Mont-Blanc massif with a Zurich HB - Stadelhofen tunnel. I suggest you write it in capital letters on a wall or blackboard, take a few steps back and look at it attentively. Count the seconds before you'll burst out in laughter at yourself.

Quote:

B-2) Yes, what I point to is a co-operation with SNCF.
What you point to is very interesting but again as always has very little to do with the real world. The SNCF has no interest in cooperating - as a matter of fact they've shut down the Annecy-Annemasse connection and vastly p!ssed off commuters.

Rerouting trains VIA the Zürich airport is again a very relevant example... for Zürich-airport as there actually are cities beyond it. The SNCF has no interest to reroute via the airport because a) they would have to operate through an intermediary station with rebroussement screwing up their commercial times and b) there is no connection between the airport and the French network and the French don't feel like building one.

Quote:

B-2-B) Such is normal. For a century, train-links between Schaffhausen and Thayingen/SH/CH were provided by DB. The best link between Schaffhausen-Bhf and Basel was and is provided by the DB. ICE trains of DB link Zürich and Stuttgart and are used by countless passengers between Zürich and Schaffhausen. ICE trains coming from ...... are here used as connectors between Basel and Zürich.
Such is normal... in Zürich. DB runs those trains because it can make a profit on the mainline... SNCF doesn't because it won't make a profit ferrying passengers from downtown Geneva to the airport 5 minutes away. Routing the Paris train through the airport... great idea. Does the Zürich - Paris TGV go through Flughafen? No? You ever wondered WHY?

Quote:

D) to point at cities on the map and say ""hey it's a great idea, we should have a train to there"" was exactly what Alfred von Escher DID say, AND DID build the links !

Happily into the 20th Century, the trains from the western side of the Zürichsee went through what now is the Tunnelstrasse. The trams from downtown stopped on one side of the tracks and people had to walk over to the other side to get into the waiting trams towards Wollishofen. The problem was solved by building a tunnel from Wollishofen towards the then not yet existing Zch-Enge-Bhf, which had to be build, AND another tunnel from Enge to Wiedikon-Bhf.
Zurich being the navel of the world we can obviously use all these projects and consider them relevant everywhere.

Quote:

YES, to achieve progress where different national railways are involved of course IS complicated, and IS difficult. Progress however means that people locally first of all are ready to accept their town to take over a part of the costs of new innovative projects and not rely entirely on the union.
Another great suggestion rooted in Wolli's alternative reality. Do you suggest Geneva pays the Italians and the French to build a tunnel under the Mont-Blanc that we don't have any use for? Or that we pay for a direct line to Annecy?

Do warn me if you ever plan to run for public office.

Lex 04.05.2012 10:43

Re: Merck Serono layoffs - up to 900 redundancies in Geneva
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pachyderm (Post 1551434)
I have a range of investments in companies I know nothing whatsoever about....................If we knew more about the values of some of these businesses we invest in we might well consider alternatives.

Would it just not be easier then to actually practice what you preach?

In my case for example, I pretty much only invest in nano/micro/small caps precisely for the reasons you gave above but with that in mind you will rarely hear me discuss corporate governance, ethics and investor responsibilities - probably because I actually consider them. Sort of reminds me of that saying about 'waiting for someone else to do something instead of starting with one's self'.

Wollishofener 04.05.2012 23:33

Re: Merck Serono layoffs - up to 900 redundancies in Geneva
 
Re: Merck Serono layoffs - up to 900 redundancies in Geneva

Quote:




Out of experience, the quality has gone UP, and not only a bit. The choices have improved. The "ancien regime" had failed in every possible respect.




When is the last time you dined out in Geneva? Just so that we can gauge your experience.

>>
I dined out in Geneva in various places between 1971 and now. In some years several times and in some other years either not or only once

--------------------------------------------------

Quote:





A) I tried to find decent connections between Geneva and Annecy, and totally failed. Mom years ago told me that there were trains between Eaux-Vives an Annecy back in 1937, don't know what has become of that line





1937! As always - the most relevant examples ever... Is that the time we had Zeppelins between New York and Berlin?

>>
Ideas and projects in the longer term can succeed or fail, or simply get postponed. Many projects first did not go ahead but then were realized decades or even centuries later. Many structures which were given up later on were revided
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:




B) dig tunnels is what needs to be done often. There was no tunnel between Zürich-HB and Stadelhofen, but it got buillt. There is no tunnel between Zürich-HB and Oerlikon, but a station-dépendence below the Bahnhofplatz and a tunnel to Oerlikon is built. Sihltalbahn and Uetlibergbahn terminated at Selnau, but a tunnel below the Sihl to Zürich HB was built, so that both lines now go into HB




I don't know what fantasy world you live in to compare a base tunnel under the Mont-Blanc massif with a Zurich HB - Stadelhofen tunnel. I suggest you write it in capital letters on a wall or blackboard, take a few steps back and look at it attentively. Count the seconds before you'll burst out in laughter at yourself.

Nice projects always look like pieces of fantasy world …. until they get put into reality

Quote:




B-2) Yes, what I point to is a co-operation with SNCF.


If you are in a border city to France, surrounded by France, then such a co-operation is vital

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


What you point to is very interesting but again as always has very little to do with the real world. The SNCF has no interest in cooperating - as a matter of fact they've shut down the Annecy-Annemasse connection and vastly p!ssed off commuters.

>>>
Right you are in a way, but to pick-up travelers at Geneva-Airport and take them into France might be a good idea

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Rerouting trains VIA the Zürich airport is again a very relevant example... for Zürich-airport as there actually are cities beyond it. The SNCF has no interest to reroute via the airport because a) they would have to operate through an intermediary station with rebroussement screwing up their commercial times and b) there is no connection between the airport and the French network and the French don't feel like building one.


n
n Have you spoken with the chiefs of SNCF ? Are there interviews with them ? Or is this just your theory about them ?


Quote:




B-2-B) Such is normal. For a century, train-links between Schaffhausen and Thayingen/SH/CH were provided by DB. The best link between Schaffhausen-Bhf and Basel was and is provided by the DB. ICE trains of DB link Zürich and Stuttgart and are used by countless passengers between Zürich and Schaffhausen. ICE trains coming from ...... are here used as connectors between Basel and Zürich.




Such is normal... in Zürich. DB runs those trains because it can make a profit on the mainline... SNCF doesn't because it won't make a profit ferrying passengers from downtown Geneva to the airport 5 minutes away. Routing the Paris train through the airport... great idea. Does the Zürich - Paris TGV go through Flughafen? No? You ever wondered WHY?

>>
But trains from the East to Basel GO through Zch-Apt

-----------------------------------------------------------

Quote:




D) to point at cities on the map and say ""hey it's a great idea, we should have a train to there"" was exactly what Alfred von Escher DID say, AND DID build the links !

Happily into the 20th Century, the trains from the western side of the Zürichsee went through what now is the Tunnelstrasse. The trams from downtown stopped on one side of the tracks and people had to walk over to the other side to get into the waiting trams towards Wollishofen. The problem was solved by building a tunnel from Wollishofen towards the then not yet existing Zch-Enge-Bhf, which had to be build, AND another tunnel from Enge to Wiedikon-Bhf.





Zurich being the navel of the world we can obviously use all these projects and consider them relevant everywhere.

Zürich, when Alfred von Escher started to act in his way was number three or four among the cities in Switzerland. It was a backyard of the world, and NOT the “navel”. The man then put things into action and pushed them through. He became rich in the process due to his shrewd and ruthless ways. He succeeded greatly, which is the reason why the man, his statue I mean, now is on the Bahnhofplatz and looks at HIS city. Whomever did go, goes or will go to school in the Canton of Zürich, will learn about this man, a man who made the impossible possible, a man who pressed new ways through, the man who made what Zürich is today

Quote:




YES, to achieve progress where different national railways are involved of course IS complicated, and IS difficult. Progress however means that people locally first of all are ready to accept their town to take over a part of the costs of new innovative projects and not rely entirely on the union.




Another great suggestion rooted in Wolli's alternative reality. Do you suggest Geneva pays the Italians and the French to build a tunnel under the Mont-Blanc that we don't have any use for? Or that we pay for a direct line to Annecy?

>> YES, Geneva could contribute to public infrastructure in neighbouring areas IF they are good for the Republic of Geneva.

Do warn me if you ever plan to run for public office.


>> IF so, it would not be in the Republic of Geneva !
__________________


Wollishofener 04.05.2012 23:46

Re: Merck Serono layoffs - up to 900 redundancies in Geneva
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by fatmanfilms (Post 1550830)
Unfortunately he is missing the point, the board of direcretors has a legal obligation to it's shareholders, a business is about making money for it's shareholders, so paying less tax would get a thumbs up.

Really ? Sure ? Merck apparently GOT some tax-advantages but had to pay a lot for the Serrono stuff. It might be interesting to see how the Merck accountants in Mannheim see that Geneva adventure. Some tax-advantages cannot outweigh bad decisions by managers. Sure, those in the know at Merck will never tell the public about this side of the picture. It is well possible that Merck took the earliest opportunity to get out.

But on the other hand, YOU are missing HIS point. He is not Economy Minister ( a job done by Mr Schneider-Ammann ) but Interior Minister, and he outlined what HE finds deplorable, nd he has absolutely NO obligation to the sharehoolders of M&S but an obligation towards the Swiss public and an obligation to the Social Democratic Party.

YOUR question rather is justified in regard to the former owner of Serrono who says to be surprised and shocked. Which means that he either is a liar or was an incompetent heir of a commercial enterprise he inherited

Wollishofener 05.05.2012 00:23

Re: Merck Serono layoffs - up to 900 redundancies in Geneva
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by acf69 (Post 1551406)
Sorry Mr. Berset, but you cannot have it both ways. You want to attract big companies and give them huge tax breaks to lure them, because there is no real other incentive to have your HQ in Geneva from a financial standpoint. You than get all the income tax and VAT that the executives generate, but of course you refuse to build proper housing and infrastructure (yes we want CEOs making millions but please take the train). The lack of housing contributes to an incredible high cost of living, meaning those same companies must pay ridiculous salaries to give people a proper standard of living.

Mr Berset never wanted to attract big companies. And he never gave huge tax breaks. You mix up Alain Berset and Schneider-Ammann, the Minister of Economy. :D
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The problem of Serono-Merck was/is that they did not just have the HQ in Geneva but even production sites, which is mad


Quote:

Originally Posted by acf69 (Post 1551406)
You cannot blame companies for looking at the cost of operating in Geneva, with or without tax breaks, the problems the workforce has to have proper housing options and deciding there are better alternatives elsewhere. Companies open and close regional offices all the time, but the arrogance in Geneva is that we should only attract but if someone decides to leave it is corporate greed.

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quite correct. In view of what you write, Merck should have dropped out of the place already a while ago. They possibly waited until the tax-deals expired in order to minimize the losses

Corporate greed ? Maybe. But I would have regarded a gradual reduction program as better. BUT of course, specialist may tell you that what Merck did was the BEST way from a corporate perspective :o

Quote:

Originally Posted by acf69 (Post 1551406)
I am not giving Merck a complete free pass, but politicians should look at their selves as well. Well, actually they are politicians for a reason I guess.

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What for should THEY look into the mirror ? The idea of those tax-deals is to facilitate the ENTRY of companies and that they after the period of the deal would be in a position to pay normal taxes, which are still lower here than elsewhere

Quote:

Originally Posted by acf69 (Post 1551406)
Lastly, wait until the EU turns on the pressure to get rid of the Swiss individual tax deals by levying import duties on goods from Switzerland. The statutory tax rate in Switzerland is 24% and when all the tax breaks will be gone in 3-5 years you will see a mass exodus of companies.

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>> the EU cannot levy import duties on goods from Switzerland, as there is a free trade agreement, which goes back much farther than the Bilaterals.
>>> many companies who arrived with some tax-deals have stayed on after those deals expired, as being well managed companies.
>>> the Canton of Obwalden offers far better tax-deals than the one of Luzern, and the Canton of Schwyz offers far better tax-deals the the one of Zürich. But in spite of this, there was no mass-exodus of companies from Luzern to Obwalden or from Zürich to Schwyz
>> YOUR argument was the one of voters in Zürich and Luzern who said that just to attract companies for a few years who are not competitive in the market does not make sense -- and that just to attract some rich people by NOT charging them with taxes according to the law also does not make sense

Quote:

Originally Posted by acf69 (Post 1551406)
Novartis in Nyon was about to close down, there are talks that P&G will follow and it could get very ugly soon.

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Novartis is a Swiss company anyway, and I am sure that they are not moving production sites around just for tax-reasons. But rather have actual costs in mind. If their Nyon place is NOT profitable they will get out there
-
P&G ? If their business is so bad that only the start-up tax-deal justified the place, they HAVE TO close down there. But Switzerland is full of foreign companies who either NEVER had a tax-deal of whose tax-deal expired long ago and continue to stay in business

Dack Rambo 07.05.2012 09:25

Re: Merck Serono layoffs - up to 900 redundancies in Geneva
 
I don't recall Anjela at ay stage asking for tax advice so I'm not sure why the thread has gone in that direction. Ideas on where he husband could find a new job would be useful though.

Wollishofener 07.05.2012 22:20

Re: Merck Serono layoffs - up to 900 redundancies in Geneva
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dack Rambo (Post 1553704)
I don't recall Anjela at ay stage asking for tax advice so I'm not sure why the thread has gone in that direction. Ideas on where he husband could find a new job would be useful though.

I can tell you WHY ! Because many expats believe that foreign companies only established themselves in Switzerland due to some tax-deals. Ignoring the fact that foreign companies established themselves in Switzerland many decades ago, without tax-deals.

LiliFranglais 23.05.2012 10:58

Re: Merck Serono layoffs - up to 900 redundancies in Geneva
 
Just in case you are wondering about the people affected by the Merck Serono closing, what the results of their latest actions are, or if you want to support them by signing a petition or joining them on their demonstrations, you can visit the employees' website www.ms-employees.org.

Wollishofener 23.05.2012 21:49

Re: Merck Serono layoffs - up to 900 redundancies in Geneva
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by LiliFranglais (Post 1565368)
Just in case you are wondering about the people affected by the Merck Serono closing, what the results of their latest actions are, or if you want to support them by signing a petition or joining them on their demonstrations, you can visit the employees' website www.ms-employees.org.

Just sent some ideas to the organisation. Very sorry for the specialists who will not find anything for them in the larger Geneva area, but the days of factories in places like Geneva and Zürich are gone.

LiliFranglais 24.05.2012 12:35

Re: Merck Serono layoffs - up to 900 redundancies in Geneva
 
For those in the Geneva/secheron area, come and join us at the Merck Serono building today (thurs 24.05, one month exactly since the closing announcement) for a bbq or a beverage at lunch time. We are also signing up volunteers to join the road trip to Darmstadt.

Wollishofener 24.05.2012 23:36

Re: Merck Serono layoffs - up to 900 redundancies in Geneva
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by LiliFranglais (Post 1566323)
For those in the Geneva/secheron area, come and join us at the Merck Serono building today (thurs 24.05, one month exactly since the closing announcement) for a bbq or a beverage at lunch time. We are also signing up volunteers to join the road trip to Darmstadt.

While having a lot of understanding for the embarassment and the emotions in place, I do not quite see what such a trip should bring about, as Merck hardly is willing even to consider a change of their plans.

rainer_d 24.05.2012 23:49

Re: Merck Serono layoffs - up to 900 redundancies in Geneva
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Wollishofener (Post 1566979)
While having a lot of understanding for the embarassment and the emotions in place, I do not quite see what such a trip should bring about, as Merck hardly is willing even to consider a change of their plans.

Of course not.
But those kinds of trips and protests are very common in Germany. It's a ritual, sort of.
Only, it doesn't happen very often that a branch in a remote country is closed, with jobs being transferred to Germany and the affected staff travels to Germany.
It's mostly about factory-closures in Germany and jobs being transferred to remote countries...

It's a 6hour trip, one way.


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