Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Swiss politics/news  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 16.05.2012, 04:03
dakman's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: NYC (heart is split between Switzerland and the Big Apple)
Posts: 1,872
Groaned at 4 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 901 Times in 543 Posts
dakman has a reputation beyond reputedakman has a reputation beyond reputedakman has a reputation beyond reputedakman has a reputation beyond reputedakman has a reputation beyond repute
Enclaves in Switzerland

http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com...witzerland/?hp

Happened upon this today, thought it was interesting
Reply With Quote
The following 6 users would like to thank dakman for this useful post:
  #2  
Old 16.05.2012, 06:18
eddiejc1's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Derwood, MD USA
Posts: 1,005
Groaned at 22 Times in 20 Posts
Thanked 684 Times in 372 Posts
eddiejc1 has an excellent reputationeddiejc1 has an excellent reputationeddiejc1 has an excellent reputationeddiejc1 has an excellent reputation
Re: Enclaves in Switzerland

I just thought of something. Although citizens of Campione and Büsingen live inside Switzerland, they aren't Swiss citizens. I can't really blame them if people who grow up in those towns feel more Swiss than Italian or German. If somebody from those places wanted to move to Ticino or Schaffhausen and officially get canton membership, do they have to wait ten years like other Italians or Germans?
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 16.05.2012, 20:54
aSwissInTheUS's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Zurich area
Posts: 12,778
Groaned at 99 Times in 88 Posts
Thanked 19,576 Times in 8,681 Posts
aSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Enclaves in Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
I just thought of something. Although citizens of Campione and Büsingen live inside Switzerland, they aren't Swiss citizens. I can't really blame them if people who grow up in those towns feel more Swiss than Italian or German. If somebody from those places wanted to move to Ticino or Schaffhausen and officially get canton membership, do they have to wait ten years like other Italians or Germans?
Citizens of Campione and Büsingen do not live in Switzerland, they live in Italy and Germany, respectively. Swiss law is irrelevant and does not apply to people who are in these towns. Also no Swiss tax, or Swiss build codes, or Swiss traffic codes, or Swiss whatever. It is not just proforma Italy or Germany, they are de jure and de facto part of their own countries.

By the way, a even more weird thing is Wikipedia reference-linkTägermoos
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank aSwissInTheUS for this useful post:
This user groans at aSwissInTheUS for this post:
  #4  
Old 16.05.2012, 21:31
RetiredInNH's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: New Hampshire, USA
Posts: 2,264
Groaned at 13 Times in 5 Posts
Thanked 1,481 Times in 747 Posts
RetiredInNH has a reputation beyond reputeRetiredInNH has a reputation beyond reputeRetiredInNH has a reputation beyond reputeRetiredInNH has a reputation beyond reputeRetiredInNH has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Enclaves in Switzerland

I love the Borderlines column in the NY Times:
Quote:
Countries are defined by the lines that divide them. But how are those lines decided — and why are some of them so strange? In Borderlines, Frank Jacobs, author of “Strange Maps: An Atlas of Cartographic Curiosities,” explores the stories behind the global map, one line at a time.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 16.05.2012, 21:46
quark's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Aargh-Ow!
Posts: 1,321
Groaned at 12 Times in 11 Posts
Thanked 1,838 Times in 756 Posts
quark has a reputation beyond reputequark has a reputation beyond reputequark has a reputation beyond reputequark has a reputation beyond reputequark has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Enclaves in Switzerland

And those are just the enclaves on country level.

Just look at a map of Canton Fribourg or Solothurn...

The best bit of enclave madness has to be the town of Baarle-Hertog, where there are bits of the Netherlands inside bits of Belgium which are inside bits of the Netherlands!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baarle-Hertog
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank quark for this useful post:
  #6  
Old 16.05.2012, 21:52
Assassin's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Chasing clouds
Posts: 4,023
Groaned at 180 Times in 123 Posts
Thanked 11,560 Times in 3,148 Posts
Assassin has a reputation beyond reputeAssassin has a reputation beyond reputeAssassin has a reputation beyond reputeAssassin has a reputation beyond reputeAssassin has a reputation beyond reputeAssassin has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Enclaves in Switzerland

I'd like to annex Genève to France and get Belfort or Dijon back in return.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Assassin for this useful post:
This user groans at Assassin for this post:
  #7  
Old 16.05.2012, 23:30
Wollishofener's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Glattbrugg
Posts: 18,978
Groaned at 332 Times in 257 Posts
Thanked 11,715 Times in 6,858 Posts
Wollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Enclaves in Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
I'd like to annex Genève to France and get Belfort or Dijon back in return.
Dijon is too far away and Belfort not exactly what I would like. Simply let's take over Mülhausen/Mulhouse, Kolmar/Colmar, Schlettstadt/Séléstat and Strassburg instead and the rest of the Elsass
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Wollishofener for this useful post:
  #8  
Old 16.05.2012, 23:35
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 32,231
Groaned at 2,467 Times in 1,784 Posts
Thanked 39,331 Times in 18,538 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Enclaves in Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
Citizens of Campione and Büsingen do not live in Switzerland, they live in Italy and Germany, respectively. Swiss law is irrelevant and does not apply to people who are in these towns.
Nonsense, they still have to have their vehicles inspected by the Swiss, and even the police and Carabinieri in Campione have Swiss license plates!

Also, in Campione they use CHF money and Swiss postage, not Italian!

Tom
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank st2lemans for this useful post:
  #9  
Old 16.05.2012, 23:37
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 32,231
Groaned at 2,467 Times in 1,784 Posts
Thanked 39,331 Times in 18,538 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Enclaves in Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
Citizens of Campione and Büsingen do not live in Switzerland, they live in Italy and Germany, respectively. Swiss law is irrelevant and does not apply to people who are in these towns. Also no Swiss tax, or Swiss build codes, or Swiss traffic codes, or Swiss whatever. It is not just proforma Italy or Germany, they are de jure and de facto part of their own countries.
Wrong, their vehicles MUST be Swiss compliant (as well as that of their native countries).

Tom
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank st2lemans for this useful post:
  #10  
Old 17.05.2012, 00:44
eddiejc1's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Derwood, MD USA
Posts: 1,005
Groaned at 22 Times in 20 Posts
Thanked 684 Times in 372 Posts
eddiejc1 has an excellent reputationeddiejc1 has an excellent reputationeddiejc1 has an excellent reputationeddiejc1 has an excellent reputation
Re: Enclaves in Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
Citizens of Campione and Büsingen do not live in Switzerland, they live in Italy and Germany, respectively.
I understand that. What I meant to ask is this---do Italian and German citizens of these enclaves have a faster track to Swiss citizenship (or more specifically, citizenship of Cantons Ticino and Schaffhausen) than co-patriots who come from Rome or Berlin?
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 17.05.2012, 01:00
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: At home
Posts: 4,167
Groaned at 208 Times in 133 Posts
Thanked 6,403 Times in 2,719 Posts
Faltrad has a reputation beyond reputeFaltrad has a reputation beyond reputeFaltrad has a reputation beyond reputeFaltrad has a reputation beyond reputeFaltrad has a reputation beyond reputeFaltrad has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Enclaves in Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
Simply let's take over Mülhausen/Mulhouse, Kolmar/Colmar, Schlettstadt/Séléstat and Strassburg instead and the rest of the Elsass
Have you seen the results of the elections lately? If Alsace/Elsass becomes Swiss, there is a high risk that it becomes a huge stronghold (Hochburg) of SVP/UDC/PPS... and catholics!
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 17.05.2012, 01:05
Wollishofener's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Glattbrugg
Posts: 18,978
Groaned at 332 Times in 257 Posts
Thanked 11,715 Times in 6,858 Posts
Wollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Enclaves in Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
I understand that. What I meant to ask is this---do Italian and German citizens of these enclaves have a faster track to Swiss citizenship (or more specifically, citizenship of Cantons Ticino and Schaffhausen) than co-patriots who come from Rome or Berlin?
Theoretically and legally no faster track. But when the question comes to being better "assimilated/integrated" into Switzerland, they are far ahead.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Wollishofener for this useful post:
  #13  
Old 17.05.2012, 01:33
Wollishofener's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Glattbrugg
Posts: 18,978
Groaned at 332 Times in 257 Posts
Thanked 11,715 Times in 6,858 Posts
Wollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Enclaves in Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
Have you seen the results of the elections lately? If Alsace/Elsass becomes Swiss, there is a high risk that it becomes a huge stronghold (Hochburg) of SVP/UDC/PPS... and catholics!
First of all, their leanings towards extreme groups like FN and the Greens simply is showing their being not pleased by mainland France. I would be quite optimist that most Elsässer would love to be two or three Cantons of Switzerland, and would have lots of Cantonal rights, more rights than they ever had before. True, as many Elsässer nowadays are defacto fully French speakers, the French share in Switzerland would rise from ca. 20% to almost 40%, but the defacto German speaking minority in the Elsass would contribute to keep German in the majority position in Switzerland. Italian percentage-wise would get reduced, but not dramatically. FDP and SP in Switzerland would profit quite heavily in fact. Greens and Green Liberals would profit, possibly more than the SVP. Whether the CVP would be able to profit is difficult to say.

Strangely enough, BOTH the links to France and the links to Germany for a variety of reasons would become even more important in an enlarged Switzerland. I mean, one of the largest Swiss cities, Strassburg, suddenly would only be 450kms from Paris. Switzerland would be very close to Stuttgart, Karlsruhe and Mannheim, something rather new

Another interesting aspect is the style of the houses. Up to Schlettstadt (Séléstat) the houses are clearly Swiss/Badish/Swabian in style, mixed in style up to Strassburg, but north of Strassburg visibly becoming closer to Rheinland-Pfalz (not some theory but what I saw several times when travelling there ! ) . And this would also being good for Switzerland.

AND, Switzerland would for the first time have an important CAR factory with Peugeot am Rhein. And with the Hochkönigsburg, Switzerland would gain a remarkable new landmark

And finally, never ever forget the good wines ! The Elsass would place Switzerland very high up among the wine-counties on the planet

Denominations ? Elsass is 70% Catholic and 12% Protestant. A fairly high share is Muslim (my guess is some 10% upto 15%.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 18.05.2012, 11:00
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 32,231
Groaned at 2,467 Times in 1,784 Posts
Thanked 39,331 Times in 18,538 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Enclaves in Switzerland

Well, if Lombardia and Piemonte were to join, then Italian would be the main language!

(and we would have the best wines, too!)

Tom
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 20.05.2012, 08:09
Wollishofener's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Glattbrugg
Posts: 18,978
Groaned at 332 Times in 257 Posts
Thanked 11,715 Times in 6,858 Posts
Wollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond reputeWollishofener has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Enclaves in Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
Well, if Lombardia and Piemonte were to join, then Italian would be the main language!

(and we would have the best wines, too!)

Tom
Not necessarily as I also mentioned Baden-Württemberg, but the choice of wines would heavily improve And Switzerland with Milano would have a really big city .... and the trains out of Milano-Centrale would be punctual !
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 29.05.2012, 00:39
Murloc's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Bern
Posts: 524
Groaned at 5 Times in 5 Posts
Thanked 578 Times in 291 Posts
Murloc has an excellent reputationMurloc has an excellent reputationMurloc has an excellent reputationMurloc has an excellent reputation
Re: Enclaves in Switzerland

Milano sucks too much, it's ruined. It's not even Lombard anymore. It's just italian, the dialect is a relict, and there are more foreigners than italians.

I'd take Valtellina and Verbania-Cusio-Ossola to keep the italian-french language equilibrium of Switzerland in order.
Germans would have to maintain their share too. Maybe Vorarlberg?


If the French didn't defeat Switzerland back in the 1500s, Italian would maybe be the dominant language of Switzerland (not taking Napoleone into account, who knows what he'd have done).
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 29.05.2012, 19:35
aSwissInTheUS's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Zurich area
Posts: 12,778
Groaned at 99 Times in 88 Posts
Thanked 19,576 Times in 8,681 Posts
aSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Enclaves in Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
Wrong, their vehicles MUST be Swiss compliant (as well as that of their native countries).

Tom
Thanks for the information. Wasn't aware of this interesting and strange fact.

PS: Thanks for the groan. No, really otherwise I had never read your reply.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 30.05.2012, 16:04
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Anywhere but deadheadland
Posts: 365
Groaned at 9 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 261 Times in 139 Posts
jonbvn has an excellent reputationjonbvn has an excellent reputationjonbvn has an excellent reputationjonbvn has an excellent reputation
Re: Enclaves in Switzerland

Quote:
View Post

The best bit of enclave madness has to be the town of Baarle-Hertog, where there are bits of the Netherlands inside bits of Belgium which are inside bits of the Netherlands!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baarle-Hertog
I love this bit:

The border is so complicated that there are some houses that are divided between the two countries. There was a time when according to Dutch laws restaurants had to close earlier. For some restaurants on the border it meant that the clients simply had to change their tables to the Belgian side.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank jonbvn for this useful post:
  #19  
Old 30.05.2012, 16:15
adrianlondon's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Basel
Posts: 9,131
Groaned at 170 Times in 153 Posts
Thanked 25,643 Times in 6,892 Posts
adrianlondon has a reputation beyond reputeadrianlondon has a reputation beyond reputeadrianlondon has a reputation beyond reputeadrianlondon has a reputation beyond reputeadrianlondon has a reputation beyond reputeadrianlondon has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Enclaves in Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
Dijon is too far away and Belfort not exactly what I would like. Simply let's take over Mülhausen/Mulhouse, Kolmar/Colmar, Schlettstadt/Séléstat and Strassburg instead and the rest of the Elsass
Noooo! I cycle over the border to those cities precisely because they are NOT Switzerland I want my decent bakeries and restaurants all at cheap prices.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank adrianlondon for this useful post:
  #20  
Old 30.05.2012, 16:40
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Enclaves in Switzerland

Re: Enclaves in Switzerland
Quote:
View Post
Quote:
Dijon is too far away and Belfort not exactly what I would like. Simply let's take over Mülhausen/Mulhouse, Kolmar/Colmar, Schlettstadt/Séléstat and Strassburg instead and the rest of the Elsass
Noooo! I cycle over the border to those cities precisely because they are NOT Switzerland I want my decent bakeries and restaurants all at cheap prices.
Too right. And the supermarkets' meat selection and prices, the wines and beers, the... actually just about everything. It's not as if there's any problems with cross-border living these days, so why change it?

Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank for this useful post:
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Trading US Stocks while in Switzerland ==> Owe Switzerland Taxes? Shlarin Finance/banking/taxation 30 04.03.2020 09:01
Move residence to Switzerland while not in Switzerland Tom2012 Finance/banking/taxation 4 27.04.2012 10:23


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 15:11.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0