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Old 24.05.2012, 10:53
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A survey has found that the Swiss are even less in favour of joining the EU than they were last year.

Read the full article: 'Blessing' not to be in EU: Swiss poll

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Old 24.05.2012, 15:31
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Re: 'Blessing' not to be in EU: Swiss poll

Have to wonder how many people hear Eu and think Euro.
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Old 24.05.2012, 16:01
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Re: 'Blessing' not to be in EU: Swiss poll

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Have to wonder how many people hear Eu and think Euro.
On joining EU, it is expected that the country adopts the Euro once all conditions have been met. Denmark and UK are two countries with opt out clauses.

I think the Swiss know exactly what joining the EU means - not that it matters though, the PIIGS are all Euro AND EU.
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Old 24.05.2012, 20:02
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Re: 'Blessing' not to be in EU: Swiss poll

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... Denmark and UK are two countries with opt out clauses...
...and Sweden

anyway, each country make a contract with the "EU", and most people just listen to SVP propaganda regarding how things will be after joining EU, and most of it is NOT true, like I said, each country can negotiate about the terms...

...just like now with the bilateral agreements, Switzerland has all the nice things from EU for free
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Old 24.05.2012, 22:00
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Re: 'Blessing' not to be in EU: Swiss poll

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...and Sweden
No, Sweden didnt negotiate a formal opt out clause hence why I didnt mention them.

See here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opt-out...n_Union_treaty and here: http://realtruth.org/news/090929-010-economy.html

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anyway, each country make a contract with the "EU", and most people just listen to SVP propaganda regarding how things will be after joining EU, and most of it is NOT true, like I said, each country can negotiate about the terms...
Well I disagree, SVP propaganda regarding the EU is/and has been totally spot on - its the EU that change contracts all the time and have trouble honouring existing ones (Maastricht, Sovereign bailouts). They also cant stand decisions that go against what the Brussels elite wants i.e. Lisbon treaty . If you think you can just change and negotiate you are DEAD wrong - thats not the purpose of the EU. Its purpose is economic, social and political integration step by step - hopefully by then it will have fallen apart anyway .

Whats happening in the EU today (Chaos ) together with the anti EU sentiment thats growing within the EU, is proof enough.

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...just like now with the bilateral agreements, Switzerland has all the nice things from EU for free
In the real world nothing is free. Its a mutual exchange and there have been many things the Swiss have taken already reluctantly i.e arm twisting/threats, vote for this or we will void this, this and this etc etc.

Fact: The EU does not have to negotiate with anyone in Europe, they are a $17trill economy. When you are that big, you DONT negotiate but dictate (with subtlety of course ).

Edit: I should also point out that CH has a trade DEFICIT with the EU and always had (the swiss buy more from EU than vice versa).

Last edited by Lex; 24.05.2012 at 22:39.
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Old 24.05.2012, 22:40
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Re: 'Blessing' not to be in EU: Swiss poll

the 26 cantons cannot even agree on a common insurance scheme, let alone agree to join the EU.
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Old 24.05.2012, 23:05
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Re: 'Blessing' not to be in EU: Swiss poll

My oh My! Aren't you are the authoritative source on all things EU!
Everything is black'n'white aka the Sun and Daily Mail.

"The EU does not have to negotiate with anyone in Europe, they are a $17trill economy. When you are that big, you DONT negotiate but dictate (with subtlety of course)"

Does your assertion above not vindicate all that the EU espouses?
It's strong enough to stand and defend itself.
What would you suggest? The British Empire? Send some gunboats up the Yangtze?
Sure there are problems...but do you want to throw in the towel in on encountering the initial traumas??

WHAT'S THE ALTERNATIVE????

A smattering of 30 disparate economies will not survive an onslaught from the thugs who have usurped resources in Russia/China/India/Brazil.

It has survived the US ascendancy over the past 4 decades.
What planet do you live on?
Most of the EU countries, Sweden, Denmark, Finland, Germany, France, UK (more or less despite Thatcherism), Ireland, Italy, Portugal, Spain, Greece and most of the East European members (despite the endemic corruption from the top down) have seen living standards rise substantially over the past decades.

What metric do you use for the measurement of progress? The number of billionaires?
How many have risen in Russia, China, Brazil and India over the past few decades? And how much has the quality of life improved for Joe Soap?
Is this the type of trickle-down-economy you advocate?
It has never worked and never will (with the possible exception of Switzerland, Singapore and a few exceptions....but ...exceptions prove the rule!!)
Start considering (objectively!!) the situation (like the Swiss!) and report back in 2025 when more data are available!!
In the meantime.......sssshhhhhhh!


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No, Sweden didnt negotiate a formal opt out clause hence why I didnt mention them.

See here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opt-out...n_Union_treaty and here: http://realtruth.org/news/090929-010-economy.html



Well I disagree, SVP propaganda regarding the EU is/and has been totally spot on - its the EU that change contracts all the time and have trouble honouring existing ones (Maastricht, Sovereign bailouts). They also cant stand decisions that go against what the Brussels elite wants i.e. Lisbon treaty . If you think you can just change and negotiate you are DEAD wrong - thats not the purpose of the EU. Its purpose is economic, social and political integration step by step - hopefully by then it will have fallen apart anyway .

Whats happening in the EU today (Chaos ) together with the anti EU sentiment thats growing within the EU, is proof enough.



In the real world nothing is free. Its a mutual exchange and there have been many things the Swiss have taken already reluctantly i.e arm twisting/threats, vote for this or we will void this, this and this etc etc.

Fact: The EU does not have to negotiate with anyone in Europe, they are a $17trill economy. When you are that big, you DONT negotiate but dictate (with subtlety of course ).
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Old 24.05.2012, 23:12
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Re: 'Blessing' not to be in EU: Swiss poll

Goooddd Caall Batman!!!

Any of you affected by this?

http://www.tdg.ch/economie/entrepris...story/20606493

up to 900 redundancies...
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Old 24.05.2012, 23:52
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Re: 'Blessing' not to be in EU: Swiss poll

This BBC link gives a breakdown of world average wage (does not include Switzerland as they do not publish figures)
You do believe the BBC ( I know they are a bunch of government employed so-and-sos in collusion with the KGB and the extreme left..... but ..... BBC vs Murdoch...???) (or do you still have have ur head up ur butt and believe the Murdoch version?)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-17543356

How many of the top 10 are EC????? (I think 7/10)

Check out the following:

Who are the laziest????

The Greeks?............. I think not, despite what the gutter press would lead you to believe:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-18144320

Come on folks. Wake up. Smell the coffee ...and the stench!!






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A survey has found that the Swiss are even less in favour of joining the EU than they were last year.

Read the full article: 'Blessing' not to be in EU: Swiss poll

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Old 24.05.2012, 23:54
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Re: 'Blessing' not to be in EU: Swiss poll

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Does your assertion above not vindicate all that the EU espouses?
Umm, size of the EU economy on its own is hardly a measure of wealth or its distribution.

I guess to you if the world economy is $62 trillion (nom), that tells us in Africa they're having a swell of a time ... NO

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My oh My! Aren't you are the authoritative source on all things EU!
Everything is black'n'white aka the Sun and Daily Mail.

Does your assertion above not vindicate all that the EU espouses?
It's strong enough to stand and defend itself.
What would you suggest? The British Empire? Send some gunboats up the Yangtze?
........................................Blah Blah Blah
Are you trying to question mark me to death or something??????????? .

Heres something for you to try:
Point 1: Quote, argue, provide evidence from 'last century' (try to stay on topic)
Point 2: Quote, argue, provide evidence that avoids jibberish rant like look
Point 3: Relax, deep breath, start again.

Still not exactly sure what your disagreeing with, since those who wish for the EU can go right ahead and have it (no argument from me) but your rant is nevertheless duly noted (British empire, thugs blah blah, nice but really irrelevant ). What was the article about again??? Ahh, yes, 82% of Swiss are against. In the country where I LIVE, thats all that matters, aint it!
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Old 25.05.2012, 00:09
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Re: 'Blessing' not to be in EU: Swiss poll

Amen to that! Who in their right mind would want to be part of the EU today?! Anybody remembers the USSR?! EU is going that way and we are not far from it! Swiss are not idiots like the German and French that finance the posh lazu life of the Greeks.
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Old 25.05.2012, 00:18
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Re: 'Blessing' not to be in EU: Swiss poll

sssshhhhhhh!

\[QUOTE=Lex;1567041]Umm, size of the EU economy on its own is hardly a measure of wealth or its distribution

Then.... why did u introduce the statistic?


I guess to you if the world economy is $62 trillion (nom), that tells us in Africa they're having a swell of a time ... NO

No idea what you are talking about here!
Again... ur numbers.



Are you trying to question mark me to death or something??????????? .

Take a deep breath brother!!

Heres something for you to try:
Point 1: Quote, argue, provide evidence from 'last century' (try to stay on topic)
Point 2: Quote, argue, provide evidence that avoids jibberish rant like look
Point 3: Relax, deep breath, start again.


Well I disagree, SVP propaganda regarding the EU is/and has been totally spot on - its the EU that change contracts all the time and have trouble honouring existing ones (Maastricht, Sovereign bailouts). They also cant stand decisions that go against what the Brussels elite wants i.e. Lisbon treaty . If you think you can just change and negotiate you are DEAD wrong - thats not the purpose of the EU. Its purpose is economic, social and political integration step by step - hopefully by then it will have fallen apart anyway .

Whats happening in the EU today (Chaos ) together with the anti EU sentiment thats growing within the EU, is proof enough.

Maybe ur comment above!

BTW....like ur intimidating graphics! They prevented my reply, and I had to delete a bunch. Thanks.
Really got me quaking in my boots.

Still not exactly sure what your disagreeing with, since those who wish for the EU can go right ahead and have it (no argument from me) but your rant is nevertheless duly noted (British empire, thugs blah blah, nice but really irrelevant . What was the article about again??? Ahh, yes, 82% of Swiss are against. In the country where I LIVE, thats all that matters, aint it! /QUOTE]
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Old 25.05.2012, 00:38
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Re: 'Blessing' not to be in EU: Swiss poll

Who works the longest hours in the EU???

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Amen to that! Who in their right mind would want to be part of the EU today?! Anybody remembers the USSR?! EU is going that way and we are not far from it! Swiss are not idiots like the German and French that finance the posh lazu life of the Greeks.
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Old 25.05.2012, 00:41
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Re: 'Blessing' not to be in EU: Swiss poll

Who works the longest hours??

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-18144320

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Amen to that! Who in their right mind would want to be part of the EU today?! Anybody remembers the USSR?! EU is going that way and we are not far from it! Swiss are not idiots like the German and French that finance the posh lazu life of the Greeks.

Last edited by ratbag; 25.05.2012 at 00:43. Reason: Added question in reply to nasty comment.
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Old 25.05.2012, 01:49
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Re: 'Blessing' not to be in EU: Swiss poll

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A survey has found that the Swiss are even less in favour of joining the EU than they were last year.

Read the full article: 'Blessing' not to be in EU: Swiss poll

WHO would love to join the EU right now ?


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Have to wonder how many people hear Eu and think Euro.
The E.U. is NOT Europe but just one of the organisations of the European continent.

The Euro is an excellent idea which however was rather badly managed

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...and Sweden
...just like now with the bilateral agreements, Switzerland has all the nice things from EU for free
-
When the Bilaterals were started, it was just a way ouf of the EEA debacle. And the man who started it, Jean-Pascal Delamuraz, only saw it as a stop-gap solution. It now however is exactly what Switzerland needs. "Tailor-made" actually

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the 26 cantons cannot even agree on a common insurance scheme, let alone agree to join the EU.
-
ideal would be if the Cantons could go separate ways
-- cantons with full EU membership
-- cantons with partial EU membership (like Denmark & U.K.)
-- cantons without EU membership
-- cantons only using the CHF
-- cantons using both the CHF and the Euro
--
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Old 25.05.2012, 04:57
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Re: 'Blessing' not to be in EU: Swiss poll

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Then.... why did u introduce the statistic?
Reading comprehension for the win. He mentioned the size of the economy as it impacts negotiating power.

You're obviously very pro EU, unlike many of the Swiss, but calm down with your posts a bit. Lex is presenting a position, you're Internet-screaming your head off. Take it down a notch!
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Old 25.05.2012, 07:54
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Re: 'Blessing' not to be in EU: Swiss poll

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No, Sweden didnt negotiate a formal opt out clause hence why I didnt mention them.

See here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opt-out...n_Union_treaty and here: http://realtruth.org/news/090929-010-economy.html



Well I disagree, SVP propaganda regarding the EU is/and has been totally spot on - its the EU that change contracts all the time and have trouble honouring existing ones (Maastricht, Sovereign bailouts). They also cant stand decisions that go against what the Brussels elite wants i.e. Lisbon treaty . If you think you can just change and negotiate you are DEAD wrong - thats not the purpose of the EU. Its purpose is economic, social and political integration step by step - hopefully by then it will have fallen apart anyway .

Whats happening in the EU today (Chaos ) together with the anti EU sentiment thats growing within the EU, is proof enough.



In the real world nothing is free. Its a mutual exchange and there have been many things the Swiss have taken already reluctantly i.e arm twisting/threats, vote for this or we will void this, this and this etc etc.

Fact: The EU does not have to negotiate with anyone in Europe, they are a $17trill economy. When you are that big, you DONT negotiate but dictate (with subtlety of course ).

Edit: I should also point out that CH has a trade DEFICIT with the EU and always had (the swiss buy more from EU than vice versa).
Agree with you totally. Maybe the voting population will wake up and realise what a monster the EU has grown to become, although as EU voters have already realised, they can't vote them out any more, they will just keep asking for referendums until they get the right answer (if indeed the ask at all) and have this backed by huge pro-EU propaganda budgets.

I'm hoping for an end of the Euro and hopefully with that a severe curtailing of the EU.
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Old 25.05.2012, 08:52
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Re: 'Blessing' not to be in EU: Swiss poll

Ratbag is just being.... himself
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Old 25.05.2012, 09:48
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Re: 'Blessing' not to be in EU: Swiss poll

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Ratbag is just being.... himself
He reminds me of someone near to me...
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Old 25.05.2012, 15:58
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Re: 'Blessing' not to be in EU: Swiss poll

I really don't understand the negativity towards the EU (the Euro yes). Most (if not every) country in the EU has benefited from it in some way or another. Now I admit that not every country would but that I guess is a reason for not joining in the first place. Have to weigh the pro's and the cons.

There is a lot of negativity towards the Eu at the moment and that is normal with the catastrophe that the Euro has become. I acknowledge that some people have reservations about how it is run but that's par for the course with any large organisation.

Quote:
On joining EU, it is expected that the country adopts the Euro once all conditions have been met. Denmark and UK are two countries with opt out clauses.
If there is an opt out clause than it is not an obligation to EU membership and thus not mandatory. I'm sure the EU in general would prefer if the Euro was adopted but that's the beauty of democracy, people make their own decisions.

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They also cant stand decisions that go against what the Brussels elite wants i.e. Lisbon treaty
I don't understand your point here in regards to the Lisbon Treaty. The people of the EU (or their elected representatives) ratified the Lisbon Treaty in all member states.

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Switzerland not being in the EU is a primary reason I wanted to come here.
Would you care to expand on this and explain your reasoning. I'm honestly curious what it is about the EU that made it preferable to live elsewhere.

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WHO would love to join the EU right now ?
I don't know but who wouldn't want access to a market with 700 million people. I'm sure there are plenty of countries who would still love to join (and I guess will) once things settle down again. While I'm confident the EU (and the Euro) will survive, what shape it's in by the end I'm guessing will be different than what it is now. Just my opinion however and I have nothing to back it up with.

Quote:
Agree with you totally. Maybe the voting population will wake up and realise what a monster the EU has grown to become, although as EU voters have already realised, they can't vote them out any more, they will just keep asking for referendums until they get the right answer (if indeed the ask at all) and have this backed by huge pro-EU propaganda budgets.
The thing about democracy is that people can just keep saying no and then vote in another crowd during the next elections who don't ask the question. If they no longer ask however and just go ahead and do to it as you seem to be insinuating then indeed the EU has a major problem.

What advantages are there for the Euro to fall apart for the countries who have adopted it. The Euro in principle is a great idea it's just the implementation which left a lot to be desired in my opinion.

In regards to the EU and dictating rather than negotiating I don't see the problem (well in general). The EU attempts to look after its own citizens and interests as a priority over others, what country or similar organisations don't? To me it just makes sense.


For the record (in case you haven't guessed by now ) I'm very much pro EU however I don't say that everything the EU does is good. It has its flaws but its the job of it's citizens to try to rectify that just as in any other country.
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