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  #21  
Old 14.06.2012, 10:34
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Re: Swiss mull tough benefit cuts for asylum seekers

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Swiss drug users will decide on a day-to-day basis whether to dramatically cut the amount of cocaine they purchase from asylum seekers.
There, fixed that for you ....
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  #22  
Old 14.06.2012, 10:40
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Re: Swiss mull tough benefit cuts for asylum seekers

One has to make a distinction between Refugees ( all refugees were once asylum seekers ) and aslyum seekers ( seeking refugee status ).

Asylum seekers are typically hosted in major reception centers runs by the Federal Govt. called CERA ( in FR I believe ). At this time, they are given the N permit to identify themselves. The N permit does does not fall under Schengen rules but allows "work" after 3 months in 5 areas ( cleaning, farming, restaurant helpers etc. ).

http://www.bfm.admin.ch/bfm/en/home/...empfangs-.html

At the CERAs, a single person is paid CHF21 a week ( ie CHF3 a day ) with three meals and a hostel like bed provided. A private firm manages security ( Securitas contractors ).

This goes on until 2 months ( legal limit to hold them at Federal Centers ).

Then they are distributed to various willing Cantons ( Phase II ) at Reception Centers ( Durchgangszentrum ) until final detemrination of their status, if not already determined ( NEE / NEM ).

It is unlikely for anyone to get their Refugee status at the CERA ( as the CH policy is to thoroughly investigate before granting status and they have limited resources ).

At the Durchgangszentrum, residency might be as short as 6 months or as long as 3 years, mean is 18 months.

In Stadt Zürich, the for-profit AOZ takes care of all residents by way of a long established contract. They provide in-house language lessons, no meals, just a hostel like bedding with a shared kitchen and other facilities.

Pending an outcome, a single person is paid roughly CHF220 a month. Outcome is usually after a long interrogation in Bern, the HQ of the BfM. Not everyone gets an interview, and those who do not, get an NEE / NEM based on the written and signed notes taken from an initial interview of half hour at the CERA.

Transport ticket ( ZVV transferable monthly Abo about 6 tickets per 100 residents ) is given to those who have a valid reason to travel within ZH, to visit a doctor, dentist, attend local programs etc. Again, travel to outside the Canton or local zone is private and if not, a special arrangement can be made for the ticket.

So normally, they ought not to be caught without a ticket unless it is for a private trip beyond their means.

Outside Stadt Zürich, there are the for-profit ORS, private firms who negotiate with the Sozialamt of the Gemeinde / Stadt, or the Asylkoordination department of the Gemeinde / Stadt who are responsible for the aslyum seekers, not refugees. Most Gemeindes do not contract ORS until overwhelmed by the numbers.

Again, tickets are provided, but this time lokalnetz personalised ZVV ones since most if not all needs are found within the local zone. Anything beyond the lokalnetz has to be borne by the asylum seeker unless the trip is officially sanctioned e.g. an interview in Bern.

In the community

Phase III is for recognised Refugees ( B permits - Schengen Okayed ) or those who cannot be sent back ( F permits -not Schengen Okayed but with work rights in the Canton ) within a year. Both of these have welfare benefits close to that of a Swiss citizen.

Recognised refugees who cannot find a room or other place to stay within 6 months of obtaining their status are charged CHF420 a month for their bed. All other "benefits" at the center is taken away and are fully payable as they now come under Sozialamt or ORS.

Rejection

http://www.sosf.ch/kampagnen/Asyl/ka...usschluss.html

Rejection codes for asylum seekers are called NEE ( no willing to co-operate by giving the identity for example Non-entré en matière ) or NEM ( basically meaning that it is abusive, frivolous or otherwise an abuse of process ). These are normally granted at the CERA level or latest at the Phase II, which I believe is what this news report and topic is about. Beyond that, they are called Sans Papier ie no longer having valid permission to be on Swiss soil.

Removal:

Charles Heller did a short film:



Social assistance statistics ( DE ):

http://www.bfs.admin.ch/bfs/portal/d.../03/04/01.html
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  #23  
Old 14.06.2012, 11:43
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Re: Swiss mull tough benefit cuts for asylum seekers

I herad on the news this morning that the lower house had approved this move.
It will mean that asylum seekers are only entitled to emergency assistance. I think they said 8chf per day and a bed for the night but it was only 6am and I was still half asleep.
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  #24  
Old 14.06.2012, 12:42
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Re: Swiss mull tough benefit cuts for asylum seekers

From Swissinfo EN:

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An alliance of rightwing and centre-right parties also voted to restrict the right of people with official refugee status to invite family members to join them in Switzerland.
This will affect the Familiennachzug opportunity.

http://www.unhcr.org/pages/4e142b0c6.html

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The integration of refugees is a dynamic and multifaceted two-way process which requires efforts by all parties concerned, including a preparedness on the part of refugees to adapt to the host society without having to forego their own cultural identity, and a corresponding readiness on the part of host communities and public institutions to welcome refugees and meet the needs of a diverse population.

The 1951 Convention and its 1967 Protocol place great emphasis on the integration of refugees. The 1951 Convention enumerates social and economic rights designed to assist integration, and in its Article 34 calls on States to facilitate the "assimilation and naturalization" of refugees.
TA ( DE )

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Migrants and Swiss see that it is increasingly difficult to bring their family members abroad to Switzerland.

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  #25  
Old 14.06.2012, 12:57
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Ok, today they are called "Securitrans" - up to some years ago were they called "Bahnpolizei". Either way, the gentlemen are hired to catch fare dodgers.



I guess you are not really experienced with fare dodging then - me neither... but I know that it is indeed a crime and not an administrative fine - especially when you do so repeatedly. So yes, you can end up at court for it and yes, you can get a criminal record for it - and yes, a refugee can end up in the "criminal refugees" statistics for not spending his 5 CHF on a ticket - which would not bring him far anyway...
Source? Obviously the Strafgesetzbuch: http://www.admin.ch/ch/d/sr/311_0/a150.html

The argument that SBB does not catch a lot is of course not logical - they most likely dodge the bus or tram fare from their shelter to the next supermarket and the like - not the IC to the opposite side of the country...

The „Bahnpolizei“ was reorganized after an effective campaign of the Police trade union over the title police. The service was divided between “Securitrans” a joint venture between “Securitas” and the SBB to handle a security presence in the train station. A railway police was created in order to keep the title and because a XIX century law gave the SBB some police powers in regards of railway. The police officers of the Railway Police are trained in two intercantonal police academies (NE and LU). They are in charge of the enforcement of the law in the railway system but have to handover the most serious case to the competent police forces (usually a cantonal one). The control of ticket is not their primary task.

I was wrong concerning the qualification of the fine as you mention the”obtaining a service without paying” article (which is mentioned in the stickers in buses for instance), my bad.I do have actually a lot of experience about ticket dodgers…. as a sworn police officer for about 10 years (ok did not do that in since 10 years, so I might be rusty). In the hundred checks I did for the public transportation that never popped up probably because it is only if the transporter is pressing charges. As long the charges are not pressed, police will not report anything to justice.

The federal office for statistics do not provide a separate report for this particular offense. I am skeptical that ticket dodgers represent the main issue of reported crimes.
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  #26  
Old 14.06.2012, 13:31
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Re: Swiss mull tough benefit cuts for asylum seekers

The video shown is of course made with a negative spin, from 6:00 showing the restraints etc, its similar but isnt actually what is used.

I have never seen the use of a wheelchair.

The deportees are transported to the plane by a van, they sit in the van like every other passenger (police included) and walk up the steps escorted by 2 or 3 police men or women and moved to the allocated seats.

If the person is violent then they maybe carried up the steps into the aircraft.

The reason for the boxing helmet is to prevent headbutts and also to prevent harming themselves by hitting against a wall or parts of the plane.

If the person is behaved then the helmet is removed and all restraints are loosened and they have a lot of movement. If the person is violent then for peoples safety the restrains are kept on.

If the deportee wishes to go to the toilet they can at any time, but escorted obviously.

yes 1 person did die whilst being transported to the plane, he had been on hunger strike for a number of weeks as protest but i assume there was also an underlying medical condition that led to his unfortunate passing.

It should be noted that forced removal is the last step. The person is given 2 chances to leave.

1, they are given a flight ticket and are given the opportunity to go to the airport by themsleves.

2, if they do not do the above they are escorted to the airport and also escorted on the flight.

3, if they fail to do the above such as leaving the hostel etc or make such a scene that they are removed from the flights, they will be removed using a special flight.
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  #27  
Old 17.06.2012, 12:45
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Re: Swiss mull tough benefit cuts for asylum seekers

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...although she does have a cell phone and all, so it must not be too bad.

Really, I am just curious!
15 CHF at Saturn......yeah those asylum seekers are having a blast! How I envy them...
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  #28  
Old 17.06.2012, 12:49
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Re: Swiss mull tough benefit cuts for asylum seekers

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Can I ask for asylum from paying US taxes?
...didn't know Switzerland got that bad...what happened to you poor girl? couldnt afford a LV bag?
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  #29  
Old 17.06.2012, 13:06
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Re: Swiss mull tough benefit cuts for asylum seekers

tapiro lee - as you groaned i of course assume you know something about the subject... please do comment, i would to hear your experiences of the deportation process.

Last edited by rob1; 17.06.2012 at 13:22.
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  #30  
Old 17.06.2012, 13:16
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Re: Swiss mull tough benefit cuts for asylum seekers

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15 CHF at Saturn......yeah those asylum seekers are having a blast! How I envy them...
I wasn't suggesting they were having a blast. I am just trying to figure out how the system works. Obviously, the 5 CHF per person this family gets a day is a very small amount and I don't see how they can live on it, so I was wondering if possibly some have money that they bring with them to pay for extras.
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  #31  
Old 17.06.2012, 15:25
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Re: Swiss mull tough benefit cuts for asylum seekers

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I wasn't suggesting they were having a blast. I am just trying to figure out how the system works. Obviously, the 5 CHF per person this family gets a day is a very small amount and I don't see how they can live on it, so I was wondering if possibly some have money that they bring with them to pay for extras.
It's pocket money as I wrote here:
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They get pocket money according to the size of the family. A family of four get between CHF 32.00 (when living in a centre) and CHF 38.00 (when living in a flat) a day. The costs of living like rent, insurances, clothing and food are paid separately
This means that a family of four gets around CHF 1'000 for personal items like fags, chewing gum and so on.
I know quite a few Swiss families you can only dream of such a sum to spend for nicknacks.
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Old 17.06.2012, 21:21
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Re: Swiss mull tough benefit cuts for asylum seekers

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...CHF 1'000 for personal items like fags, chewing gum and so on...
CHF52.50 per week for pocket money sounds like a dose of fairness and dignity for those who came from terrible places and managed to get out alive. I'm pretty sure genuine asylum seekers would be glad to get a job and pay it back if they get the chance. Denigrating it to chewing gum and baccy seems unfair. If you're on the Social as a Swiss person you also get a bit more than you absolutely need.

How much is a tram ticket without the half tax card?
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Old 18.06.2012, 06:42
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Re: Swiss mull tough benefit cuts for asylum seekers

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CHF52.50 per week for pocket money sounds like a dose of fairness and dignity for those who came from terrible places and managed to get out alive. I'm pretty sure genuine asylum seekers would be glad to get a job and pay it back if they get the chance. Denigrating it to chewing gum and baccy seems unfair. If you're on the Social as a Swiss person you also get a bit more than you absolutely need.

How much is a tram ticket without the half tax card?
That's true, asylum seekers get according to SKOS exactly 30% less. And I think a small advantage for Swiss living on social benefits in their own country can't be that wrong. Once more I am not talking about the essentials of life, neither about bus tickets. This is all paid if justified. Years ago asylum seekers weren't allowed to move beyond a certain radius of their centre or flat. However, I don't know if this rule is still to follow.
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  #34  
Old 19.06.2012, 21:46
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Re: Swiss mull tough benefit cuts for asylum seekers

Not quite your ordinary asylum seeker.

Until recently, Switzerland was one of very few countries that accepted asylum requests through their foreign missions.

PS: Tomorrow is World Refugee Day

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  #35  
Old 20.06.2012, 09:23
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Re: Swiss mull tough benefit cuts for asylum seekers

there is an expo at basel marktplatz tomorrow i believe.
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  #36  
Old 20.06.2012, 10:07
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Re: Swiss mull tough benefit cuts for asylum seekers

Maybe that's just me, but: If people have to run away from some politically motivated violence - do you really need to make them waive the flags of those regimes? A flag normally represents more than just the piece of soil you are from... (which is why they change so often in third world countries.)
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Old 20.06.2012, 10:48
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Re: Swiss mull tough benefit cuts for asylum seekers

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Maybe that's just me, but: If people have to run away from some politically motivated violence - do you really need to make them waive the flags of those regimes? A flag normally represents more than just the piece of soil you are from... (which is why they change so often in third world countries.)
It also represent your culture, your roots and who you are. Not just only a repressive regime.
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Old 20.06.2012, 11:59
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Re: Swiss mull tough benefit cuts for asylum seekers

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Maybe that's just me, but: If people have to run away from some politically motivated violence - do you really need to make them waive the flags of those regimes? A flag normally represents more than just the piece of soil you are from... (which is why they change so often in third world countries.)
Thought exactly the same. Let's all wave the flags of the countries that suppressed us so much we took asylum elsewhere.. what about waving the flag of the recipient country instead?
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  #39  
Old 28.06.2013, 00:44
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Re: Swiss mull tough benefit cuts for asylum seekers

one quick question, i have a Permit N and if i want to change canton what are the probabilities? it says i can have a written request? does it only apply for marriage or do they take other reasons too? thank you for posting this accurate post
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  #40  
Old 16.07.2013, 07:39
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Re: Swiss mull tough benefit cuts for asylum seekers

I think 2 important things have not been mentioned here. First the first sentence of the article
"The current emergency aid provisions enable asylum seekers who have had their applications rejected..."

So obviously we are not talking about people that had a valid (from governments standpoint) reason to seek asylum. They are mostly economic refugees. Secondly this has got attention because some journalist wrote rightfully that they get more financial help than people that worked all their life here, are retired and are unfortunate enough to have to live off welfare. This has been perceived as unjust and is now being discussed.

By the way: Hi guys, I'm the newbie here. Swiss, living in rurual Thurgovie and working for one of the big US IT companies as Architect/Consultant/Project Manager.
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