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-   -   Swiss mull tough benefit cuts for asylum seekers (https://www.englishforum.ch/swiss-politics-news/148740-swiss-mull-tough-benefit-cuts-asylum-seekers.html)

The Local 13.06.2012 10:32

The Swiss parliament will decide this week on whether to dramatically cut the amount of financial support received by asylum seekers.

Read the full article: Swiss mull tough benefit cuts for asylum seekers

rob1 13.06.2012 11:40

Re: Swiss mull tough benefit cuts for asylum seekers
 
i think the green party are not in the real world......

Uncle Max 13.06.2012 15:53

Re: Swiss mull tough benefit cuts for asylum seekers
 
Meanwhile, Megacorps pay ridunculously low tax. There's social justice.

drmom 13.06.2012 17:27

Re: Swiss mull tough benefit cuts for asylum seekers
 
I've been wondering about asylum seekers as I have been chauffeuring one in our town each week to bring her kid (along with mine) to Spielgruppe. What I have been able to figure out is that they get 5 CHF/day per person to cover costs. The family is from Mongolia and have been here for 2 years. Otherwise, communicating is quite difficult...

So, do people come with some amount of their own money? I suppose maybe they are also given a ticket for public transport as well as housing? But still, I wonder how people manage here at 5 CHF a day...although she does have a cell phone and all, so it must not be too bad.

Really, I am just curious!

simplon 14.06.2012 06:40

Re: Swiss mull tough benefit cuts for asylum seekers
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by drmom (Post 1582272)
I've been wondering about asylum seekers as I have been chauffeuring one in our town each week to bring her kid (along with mine) to Spielgruppe. What I have been able to figure out is that they get 5 CHF/day per person to cover costs. The family is from Mongolia and have been here for 2 years. Otherwise, communicating is quite difficult...

So, do people come with some amount of their own money? I suppose maybe they are also given a ticket for public transport as well as housing? But still, I wonder how people manage here at 5 CHF a day...although she does have a cell phone and all, so it must not be too bad.

Really, I am just curious!

They get pocket money according to the size of the family. A family of four get between CHF 32.00 (when living in a centre) and CHF 38.00 (when living in a flat) a day. The costs of living like rent, insurances, clothing and food are paid separately

Assassin 14.06.2012 07:28

Re: Swiss mull tough benefit cuts for asylum seekers
 
No bread? "Let them eat cake".

Treverus 14.06.2012 07:51

Re: Swiss mull tough benefit cuts for asylum seekers
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by drmom (Post 1582272)
So, do people come with some amount of their own money?

Asylum seekers are just that - they seek asylum as they feel threatened at home for various reasons - war or persecution from authoritatrian governments for things that are covered through the human rights... Given the countries most people come from can one expect that they on averag do not have a lot of own money to bring. (But obviously could a millionaire be asking for political asylum as well... )
Quote:

Originally Posted by drmom (Post 1582272)
I suppose maybe they are also given a ticket for public transport as well as housing?

No. And they are not able to afford to pay for it with the 5 CHF they get... Which is why they are often caught taking the tram illegally without ticket - which in turn then produces those statistics of the many criminal asylum seekers. (I fully understand that there is no human right for public transport and can equally understand that ZVV is not a charity... but I cannot understand that the Swiss prefer to hire cops to chase the fare dodgers instead of finding a solution to get them tickets...)

I do not think refugees need to get paid at all - if they have access to everything they need to have a life in dignity while waiting for the asylum approval. The pocket money is an easy way to reduce bureaucracy - in that way does nobody need to source a tootbrush or the like for them. I think 5 CHF a day for personal things is already on the very low side - I really do not see how the Swiss can cut it without giving out supplies then in a material form... which will for sure not lower the costs giving the salaries even the lower level employees who surely would have to oversee the process might cost - otherwise some criminal refugee could nick a second tootbrush and sell it on...

olygirl 14.06.2012 08:23

Re: Swiss mull tough benefit cuts for asylum seekers
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by drmom (Post 1582272)
I've been wondering about asylum seekers as I have been chauffeuring one in our town each week to bring her kid (along with mine) to Spielgruppe. What I have been able to figure out is that they get 5 CHF/day per person to cover costs. The family is from Mongolia and have been here for 2 years. Otherwise, communicating is quite difficult...

So, do people come with some amount of their own money? I suppose maybe they are also given a ticket for public transport as well as housing? But still, I wonder how people manage here at 5 CHF a day...although she does have a cell phone and all, so it must not be too bad.

Really, I am just curious!

This is indeed a problem for the Gemeindes. Once the refugees are allowed to live here permanently, they often exist off the welfare programs of the local communities.

olygirl 14.06.2012 08:24

Re: Swiss mull tough benefit cuts for asylum seekers
 
Can I ask for asylum from paying US taxes?

simon_ch 14.06.2012 08:44

Re: Swiss mull tough benefit cuts for asylum seekers
 
I think a clear distinction should be made between asylum seekers who collaborate with authorities and can prove their claim and illegal immigrants who are here for economic reasons. The first should be integrated into society with full efforts of the state and society, the latter deported or detained until they leave willingly. And concerning economic migrants, no truly poor person can make it out of the country, let alone pay 5'-10'000 USD for the crossover to Europe. Once clear guidelines are established across Europe there will be much less crime regarding this on both sides of the Mediterranean sea.

Kaeso 14.06.2012 08:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Treverus (Post 1582650)
No. And they are not able to afford to pay for it with the 5 CHF they get... Which is why they are often caught taking the tram illegally without ticket - which in turn then produces those statistics of the many criminal asylum seekers. (I fully understand that there is no human right for public transport and can equally understand that ZVV is not a charity... but I cannot understand that the Swiss prefer to hire cops to chase the fare dodgers instead of finding a solution to get them tickets...)

No cop is hired to chase ticketless passengers. Police is called when ticketless passengers are unable to prove their identity when they get fined by the transport agents. Also you don't commit a criminal offense when you ride without ticket. It is an administrative fine. So nobody increase the crime statistics by not paying a bus/train ticket you increase it by committing burglary or selling drugs. I can hardly think people do so because they can't pay public transportation.

If Swiss authorities provided free public transportation to asylum seekers I can imagine the reaction of the tax payers. Why not provide free public transportation to everybody then ? Cost maybe ?

simplon 14.06.2012 09:00

Re: Swiss mull tough benefit cuts for asylum seekers
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaeso (Post 1582675)
No cop is hired to chase ticketless passengers. Police is called when ticketless passengers are unable to prove their identity when they get fined by the transport agents. Also you don't commit a criminal offense when you ride without ticket. It is an administrative fine. So nobody increase the crime statistics by not paying a bus/train ticket you increase it by committing burglary or selling drugs. I can hardly think people do so because they can't pay public transportation.

If Swiss authorities provided free public transportation to asylum seekers I can imagine the reaction of the tax payers. Why not provide free public transportation to everybody then ? Cost maybe ?

Actually they are paid the tickets if they have a reason to take a train or a bus. But they have to pay it from the CHF 8.00 pocket money if they take public transport just for fun. BTW, SBB stated this week, that they catch 780 ticketless passengers a day.

Nil 14.06.2012 09:13

Re: Swiss mull tough benefit cuts for asylum seekers
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by simplon (Post 1582687)
Actually they are paid the tickets if they have a reason to take a train or a bus. But they have to pay it from the CHF 8.00 pocket money if they take public transport just for fun. BTW, SBB stated this week, that they catch 780 ticketless passengers a day.

Which means they can't all be asylum seekers.

Slaphead 14.06.2012 09:32

Re: Swiss mull tough benefit cuts for asylum seekers
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by simplon (Post 1582687)
Actually they are paid the tickets if they have a reason to take a train or a bus. But they have to pay it from the CHF 8.00 pocket money if they take public transport just for fun. BTW, SBB stated this week, that they catch 780 ticketless passengers a day.

Slightly off topic but according to the SBB's average daily passenger numbers from 2011 that means that only 0.08% passengers are fare dodgers. Of course that only takes into those that are caught, but still not bad at all for a transport system where it's relatively easy to dodge fares.

rob1 14.06.2012 09:41

Re: Swiss mull tough benefit cuts for asylum seekers
 
not so sure about having a transport ticket, often on the early morning weekend trains out of basel a lot of africans are requested to show tickets before the train departs, quite a few had a letter from the geminde and it was accepted by the inspector.

Treverus 14.06.2012 10:00

Re: Swiss mull tough benefit cuts for asylum seekers
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaeso (Post 1582675)
No cop is hired to chase ticketless passengers. Police is called when ticketless passengers are unable to prove their identity when they get fined by the transport agents.

Ok, today they are called "Securitrans" - up to some years ago were they called "Bahnpolizei". Either way, the gentlemen are hired to catch fare dodgers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaeso (Post 1582675)
Also you don't commit a criminal offense when you ride without ticket. It is an administrative fine. So nobody increase the crime statistics by not paying a bus/train ticket you increase it by committing burglary or selling drugs. I can hardly think people do so because they can't pay public transportation.

I guess you are not really experienced with fare dodging then - me neither... but I know that it is indeed a crime and not an administrative fine - especially when you do so repeatedly. So yes, you can end up at court for it and yes, you can get a criminal record for it - and yes, a refugee can end up in the "criminal refugees" statistics for not spending his 5 CHF on a ticket - which would not bring him far anyway...
Source? Obviously the Strafgesetzbuch: http://www.admin.ch/ch/d/sr/311_0/a150.html

The argument that SBB does not catch a lot is of course not logical - they most likely dodge the bus or tram fare from their shelter to the next supermarket and the like - not the IC to the opposite side of the country...

simplon 14.06.2012 10:03

Re: Swiss mull tough benefit cuts for asylum seekers
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rob1 (Post 1582721)
not so sure about having a transport ticket, often on the early morning weekend trains out of basel a lot of africans are requested to show tickets before the train departs, quite a few had a letter from the geminde and it was accepted by the inspector.

There are two systems around. Tickets paid by the centre or confirmation letter of the Gemeinde

greenmount 14.06.2012 10:07

Re: Swiss mull tough benefit cuts for asylum seekers
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by simon_ch (Post 1582674)
I think a clear distinction should be made between asylum seekers who collaborate with authorities and can prove their claim and illegal immigrants who are here for economic reasons. The first should be integrated into society with full efforts of the state and society, the latter deported or detained until they leave willingly. And concerning economic migrants, no truly poor person can make it out of the country, let alone pay 5'-10'000 USD for the crossover to Europe. Once clear guidelines are established across Europe there will be much less crime regarding this on both sides of the Mediterranean sea.

And how long does it take for the authorities to establish who's entitled to asylum and who's not? Maybe that's a problem too. A few years process is draining public funds..

herc82 14.06.2012 10:15

Re: Swiss mull tough benefit cuts for asylum seekers
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Treverus (Post 1582751)
Ok, today they are called "Securitrans" - up to some years ago were they called "Bahnpolizei". Either way, the gentlemen are hired to catch fare dodgers.

Sorry, that is not correct. I have never ever seen them do anything other than stand around looking "to make your journey more secure". Not a single time has any of them checked any tickets - that's what the inspectors are there for.

saiya-jin 14.06.2012 10:28

Re: Swiss mull tough benefit cuts for asylum seekers
 
We are (almost all I believe) foreigners. We (almost all) contribute to this country, usually more than we get back. I don't mind that, piece left for me is still generous enough for me to stay and having time of my life.
These asylum seekers, it's not an easy topic. Many sad stories. Problem is, not many actually need protection. As said, amounts to get here from Africa, Asia are usually 5-digit USD equivalents, and you need to be really rich there (or be utterly stupid and get to huge debt) to go for this ride.
And Switzerland is tiny spec of dust. It cannot embrace all people from whole world (and Switzerland has quite a special status, many people want to get exactly here, not just generally Europe). So with current global economic conditions, either flow is throttled quite intensively, or problem gets worse.
Mentioned Mongolians - I seriously doubt they are here for anything else than money. There are no persecutions of minorities there, and the state is more or less democracy. So unless they are criminals back home, this is economic migration. And same applies for many, many others.
If this would be up to me (and it is not, correctly), I would accept only truly endangered people, that can prove they would face execution or torture based on political/racial/ethnic membership. You know, north korea, few african states (really just few), and that's probably it. Rest of them, they could live back home, in worse condition than here, but perfectly manageable (as they did before coming here).


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