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Old 13.06.2012, 10:32
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The Swiss parliament will decide this week on whether to dramatically cut the amount of financial support received by asylum seekers.

Read the full article: Swiss mull tough benefit cuts for asylum seekers
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Old 13.06.2012, 11:40
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Re: Swiss mull tough benefit cuts for asylum seekers

i think the green party are not in the real world......
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Old 13.06.2012, 15:53
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Re: Swiss mull tough benefit cuts for asylum seekers

Meanwhile, Megacorps pay ridunculously low tax. There's social justice.
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Old 13.06.2012, 17:27
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Re: Swiss mull tough benefit cuts for asylum seekers

I've been wondering about asylum seekers as I have been chauffeuring one in our town each week to bring her kid (along with mine) to Spielgruppe. What I have been able to figure out is that they get 5 CHF/day per person to cover costs. The family is from Mongolia and have been here for 2 years. Otherwise, communicating is quite difficult...

So, do people come with some amount of their own money? I suppose maybe they are also given a ticket for public transport as well as housing? But still, I wonder how people manage here at 5 CHF a day...although she does have a cell phone and all, so it must not be too bad.

Really, I am just curious!
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Old 14.06.2012, 06:40
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Re: Swiss mull tough benefit cuts for asylum seekers

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I've been wondering about asylum seekers as I have been chauffeuring one in our town each week to bring her kid (along with mine) to Spielgruppe. What I have been able to figure out is that they get 5 CHF/day per person to cover costs. The family is from Mongolia and have been here for 2 years. Otherwise, communicating is quite difficult...

So, do people come with some amount of their own money? I suppose maybe they are also given a ticket for public transport as well as housing? But still, I wonder how people manage here at 5 CHF a day...although she does have a cell phone and all, so it must not be too bad.

Really, I am just curious!
They get pocket money according to the size of the family. A family of four get between CHF 32.00 (when living in a centre) and CHF 38.00 (when living in a flat) a day. The costs of living like rent, insurances, clothing and food are paid separately
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Old 14.06.2012, 07:28
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Re: Swiss mull tough benefit cuts for asylum seekers

No bread? "Let them eat cake".
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Old 14.06.2012, 07:51
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Re: Swiss mull tough benefit cuts for asylum seekers

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So, do people come with some amount of their own money?
Asylum seekers are just that - they seek asylum as they feel threatened at home for various reasons - war or persecution from authoritatrian governments for things that are covered through the human rights... Given the countries most people come from can one expect that they on averag do not have a lot of own money to bring. (But obviously could a millionaire be asking for political asylum as well... )
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I suppose maybe they are also given a ticket for public transport as well as housing?
No. And they are not able to afford to pay for it with the 5 CHF they get... Which is why they are often caught taking the tram illegally without ticket - which in turn then produces those statistics of the many criminal asylum seekers. (I fully understand that there is no human right for public transport and can equally understand that ZVV is not a charity... but I cannot understand that the Swiss prefer to hire cops to chase the fare dodgers instead of finding a solution to get them tickets...)

I do not think refugees need to get paid at all - if they have access to everything they need to have a life in dignity while waiting for the asylum approval. The pocket money is an easy way to reduce bureaucracy - in that way does nobody need to source a tootbrush or the like for them. I think 5 CHF a day for personal things is already on the very low side - I really do not see how the Swiss can cut it without giving out supplies then in a material form... which will for sure not lower the costs giving the salaries even the lower level employees who surely would have to oversee the process might cost - otherwise some criminal refugee could nick a second tootbrush and sell it on...
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Old 14.06.2012, 08:24
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Re: Swiss mull tough benefit cuts for asylum seekers

Can I ask for asylum from paying US taxes?
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Old 14.06.2012, 08:23
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Re: Swiss mull tough benefit cuts for asylum seekers

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I've been wondering about asylum seekers as I have been chauffeuring one in our town each week to bring her kid (along with mine) to Spielgruppe. What I have been able to figure out is that they get 5 CHF/day per person to cover costs. The family is from Mongolia and have been here for 2 years. Otherwise, communicating is quite difficult...

So, do people come with some amount of their own money? I suppose maybe they are also given a ticket for public transport as well as housing? But still, I wonder how people manage here at 5 CHF a day...although she does have a cell phone and all, so it must not be too bad.

Really, I am just curious!
This is indeed a problem for the Gemeindes. Once the refugees are allowed to live here permanently, they often exist off the welfare programs of the local communities.
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Old 17.06.2012, 12:45
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Re: Swiss mull tough benefit cuts for asylum seekers

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...although she does have a cell phone and all, so it must not be too bad.

Really, I am just curious!
15 CHF at Saturn......yeah those asylum seekers are having a blast! How I envy them...
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Old 17.06.2012, 13:16
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Re: Swiss mull tough benefit cuts for asylum seekers

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15 CHF at Saturn......yeah those asylum seekers are having a blast! How I envy them...
I wasn't suggesting they were having a blast. I am just trying to figure out how the system works. Obviously, the 5 CHF per person this family gets a day is a very small amount and I don't see how they can live on it, so I was wondering if possibly some have money that they bring with them to pay for extras.
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Old 14.06.2012, 08:45
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No. And they are not able to afford to pay for it with the 5 CHF they get... Which is why they are often caught taking the tram illegally without ticket - which in turn then produces those statistics of the many criminal asylum seekers. (I fully understand that there is no human right for public transport and can equally understand that ZVV is not a charity... but I cannot understand that the Swiss prefer to hire cops to chase the fare dodgers instead of finding a solution to get them tickets...)
No cop is hired to chase ticketless passengers. Police is called when ticketless passengers are unable to prove their identity when they get fined by the transport agents. Also you don't commit a criminal offense when you ride without ticket. It is an administrative fine. So nobody increase the crime statistics by not paying a bus/train ticket you increase it by committing burglary or selling drugs. I can hardly think people do so because they can't pay public transportation.

If Swiss authorities provided free public transportation to asylum seekers I can imagine the reaction of the tax payers. Why not provide free public transportation to everybody then ? Cost maybe ?
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Old 14.06.2012, 09:00
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Re: Swiss mull tough benefit cuts for asylum seekers

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No cop is hired to chase ticketless passengers. Police is called when ticketless passengers are unable to prove their identity when they get fined by the transport agents. Also you don't commit a criminal offense when you ride without ticket. It is an administrative fine. So nobody increase the crime statistics by not paying a bus/train ticket you increase it by committing burglary or selling drugs. I can hardly think people do so because they can't pay public transportation.

If Swiss authorities provided free public transportation to asylum seekers I can imagine the reaction of the tax payers. Why not provide free public transportation to everybody then ? Cost maybe ?
Actually they are paid the tickets if they have a reason to take a train or a bus. But they have to pay it from the CHF 8.00 pocket money if they take public transport just for fun. BTW, SBB stated this week, that they catch 780 ticketless passengers a day.
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Old 14.06.2012, 09:13
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Re: Swiss mull tough benefit cuts for asylum seekers

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Actually they are paid the tickets if they have a reason to take a train or a bus. But they have to pay it from the CHF 8.00 pocket money if they take public transport just for fun. BTW, SBB stated this week, that they catch 780 ticketless passengers a day.
Which means they can't all be asylum seekers.
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Old 14.06.2012, 09:32
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Re: Swiss mull tough benefit cuts for asylum seekers

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Actually they are paid the tickets if they have a reason to take a train or a bus. But they have to pay it from the CHF 8.00 pocket money if they take public transport just for fun. BTW, SBB stated this week, that they catch 780 ticketless passengers a day.
Slightly off topic but according to the SBB's average daily passenger numbers from 2011 that means that only 0.08% passengers are fare dodgers. Of course that only takes into those that are caught, but still not bad at all for a transport system where it's relatively easy to dodge fares.
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Old 14.06.2012, 09:41
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Re: Swiss mull tough benefit cuts for asylum seekers

not so sure about having a transport ticket, often on the early morning weekend trains out of basel a lot of africans are requested to show tickets before the train departs, quite a few had a letter from the geminde and it was accepted by the inspector.
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Old 14.06.2012, 10:03
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Re: Swiss mull tough benefit cuts for asylum seekers

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not so sure about having a transport ticket, often on the early morning weekend trains out of basel a lot of africans are requested to show tickets before the train departs, quite a few had a letter from the geminde and it was accepted by the inspector.
There are two systems around. Tickets paid by the centre or confirmation letter of the Gemeinde
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Old 14.06.2012, 10:00
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Re: Swiss mull tough benefit cuts for asylum seekers

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No cop is hired to chase ticketless passengers. Police is called when ticketless passengers are unable to prove their identity when they get fined by the transport agents.
Ok, today they are called "Securitrans" - up to some years ago were they called "Bahnpolizei". Either way, the gentlemen are hired to catch fare dodgers.

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Also you don't commit a criminal offense when you ride without ticket. It is an administrative fine. So nobody increase the crime statistics by not paying a bus/train ticket you increase it by committing burglary or selling drugs. I can hardly think people do so because they can't pay public transportation.
I guess you are not really experienced with fare dodging then - me neither... but I know that it is indeed a crime and not an administrative fine - especially when you do so repeatedly. So yes, you can end up at court for it and yes, you can get a criminal record for it - and yes, a refugee can end up in the "criminal refugees" statistics for not spending his 5 CHF on a ticket - which would not bring him far anyway...
Source? Obviously the Strafgesetzbuch: http://www.admin.ch/ch/d/sr/311_0/a150.html

The argument that SBB does not catch a lot is of course not logical - they most likely dodge the bus or tram fare from their shelter to the next supermarket and the like - not the IC to the opposite side of the country...
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Old 14.06.2012, 10:15
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Re: Swiss mull tough benefit cuts for asylum seekers

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Ok, today they are called "Securitrans" - up to some years ago were they called "Bahnpolizei". Either way, the gentlemen are hired to catch fare dodgers.
Sorry, that is not correct. I have never ever seen them do anything other than stand around looking "to make your journey more secure". Not a single time has any of them checked any tickets - that's what the inspectors are there for.
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Old 14.06.2012, 10:40
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Re: Swiss mull tough benefit cuts for asylum seekers

One has to make a distinction between Refugees ( all refugees were once asylum seekers ) and aslyum seekers ( seeking refugee status ).

Asylum seekers are typically hosted in major reception centers runs by the Federal Govt. called CERA ( in FR I believe ). At this time, they are given the N permit to identify themselves. The N permit does does not fall under Schengen rules but allows "work" after 3 months in 5 areas ( cleaning, farming, restaurant helpers etc. ).

http://www.bfm.admin.ch/bfm/en/home/...empfangs-.html

At the CERAs, a single person is paid CHF21 a week ( ie CHF3 a day ) with three meals and a hostel like bed provided. A private firm manages security ( Securitas contractors ).

This goes on until 2 months ( legal limit to hold them at Federal Centers ).

Then they are distributed to various willing Cantons ( Phase II ) at Reception Centers ( Durchgangszentrum ) until final detemrination of their status, if not already determined ( NEE / NEM ).

It is unlikely for anyone to get their Refugee status at the CERA ( as the CH policy is to thoroughly investigate before granting status and they have limited resources ).

At the Durchgangszentrum, residency might be as short as 6 months or as long as 3 years, mean is 18 months.

In Stadt Zürich, the for-profit AOZ takes care of all residents by way of a long established contract. They provide in-house language lessons, no meals, just a hostel like bedding with a shared kitchen and other facilities.

Pending an outcome, a single person is paid roughly CHF220 a month. Outcome is usually after a long interrogation in Bern, the HQ of the BfM. Not everyone gets an interview, and those who do not, get an NEE / NEM based on the written and signed notes taken from an initial interview of half hour at the CERA.

Transport ticket ( ZVV transferable monthly Abo about 6 tickets per 100 residents ) is given to those who have a valid reason to travel within ZH, to visit a doctor, dentist, attend local programs etc. Again, travel to outside the Canton or local zone is private and if not, a special arrangement can be made for the ticket.

So normally, they ought not to be caught without a ticket unless it is for a private trip beyond their means.

Outside Stadt Zürich, there are the for-profit ORS, private firms who negotiate with the Sozialamt of the Gemeinde / Stadt, or the Asylkoordination department of the Gemeinde / Stadt who are responsible for the aslyum seekers, not refugees. Most Gemeindes do not contract ORS until overwhelmed by the numbers.

Again, tickets are provided, but this time lokalnetz personalised ZVV ones since most if not all needs are found within the local zone. Anything beyond the lokalnetz has to be borne by the asylum seeker unless the trip is officially sanctioned e.g. an interview in Bern.

In the community

Phase III is for recognised Refugees ( B permits - Schengen Okayed ) or those who cannot be sent back ( F permits -not Schengen Okayed but with work rights in the Canton ) within a year. Both of these have welfare benefits close to that of a Swiss citizen.

Recognised refugees who cannot find a room or other place to stay within 6 months of obtaining their status are charged CHF420 a month for their bed. All other "benefits" at the center is taken away and are fully payable as they now come under Sozialamt or ORS.

Rejection

http://www.sosf.ch/kampagnen/Asyl/ka...usschluss.html

Rejection codes for asylum seekers are called NEE ( no willing to co-operate by giving the identity for example Non-entré en matière ) or NEM ( basically meaning that it is abusive, frivolous or otherwise an abuse of process ). These are normally granted at the CERA level or latest at the Phase II, which I believe is what this news report and topic is about. Beyond that, they are called Sans Papier ie no longer having valid permission to be on Swiss soil.

Removal:

Charles Heller did a short film:



Social assistance statistics ( DE ):

http://www.bfs.admin.ch/bfs/portal/d.../03/04/01.html
Attached Files
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File Type: pdf stat-jahr-2011-kommentar-d.pdf (237.5 KB, 186 views)
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