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  #61  
Old 19.06.2012, 19:49
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Re: Swiss canton passes first law on assisted suicide

I have tried very hard not to groan Nia, but in this case I will just have to, in the memory of my wonderful and beloved dad (who died aged 96, and would be 100 in August) and sister. A bit of respect please.
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  #62  
Old 19.06.2012, 20:17
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Re: Swiss canton passes first law on assisted suicide

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The bible says also that the world was created in 7 days. I personally believe the monkeys story, more credible.
You have reverted back to your cult, thank god.
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  #63  
Old 19.06.2012, 20:21
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Re: Swiss canton passes first law on assisted suicide

Time to leave this thread. A shame not more members had the guts to stand up to this bigotry and insults. As said Nia, this is not new in Switzerland - assisted suicide has been legal here for more than 60 years. The new democratic law is about the right to be assisted in an OAP home or other institution, irrespective of Charters to the contrary. You either accept Swiss Law, or you don't - in which case maybe it may be better to return to your own and its laws, for your own sake and sanity.

Do groan again- you are welcome.

Last edited by Odile; 19.06.2012 at 20:40.
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  #64  
Old 19.06.2012, 20:22
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Re: Swiss canton passes first law on assisted suicide

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Time to leave this thread. A shame not more members had the guts to stand up to this bigotry and insults.
Yes they do, but only insult me in private!
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Old 19.06.2012, 20:22
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Re: Swiss canton passes first law on assisted suicide

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No. Please tell me it's not true that there isn't an Easter Bunny or Santa
Not even the tooth fairy??

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For example, myself, I am not religious. Religion is a human tradition added to the church at it has nothing to do with the faith. You won't be saved by the rosaries, prayers to all saints, to Mary, athough there is no need to neglect her role in the birth of Jesus: she accepted God's will.
All people, including me, we are sinners et even good works won't lead us to Heaven. Good works should be fruits of faith.
Only Jesus Christ saves.
If there is a pastor or priest who truly believes in God, they won't hurt an ill person in a nursing home. Their prayers can bring a relief to ill people. The problem arises when there is a pastor or priest who abuse the vulnerable people. Jesus named them "the wolves in sheep's clothing" (Gospel of Matthew 7:15). Not only they can hurt a vulnerable person but they also set a bad example to the people seeking God.
For someone who is not religious, you sure seem to use religion a lot in your examples

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You have reverted back to your cult, thank god.
You call it cult. We call it evolution. Do you seriously believe that the world was created in 7 days?
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  #66  
Old 19.06.2012, 20:30
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Re: Swiss canton passes first law on assisted suicide

My great great aunt moved in with my family when I was around 10 years old. My youngest brother, the 11th child, had (has) Downs. My dad's parents also lived in the same house, in an apt my parents built on the top floor.

I grew up watching my mom taking care of my elderly grandparents who didn't have a dime in the world. My aunt, who was lovely, was also penniless, never married, no kids. We all experienced the true meaning of family and charity as we served and loved each other. Was it easy? No, especially not for my mom. Was it worth it? Of course it was.

Some of my favorite memories are coming home from school and running upstairs to talk to my grandma and my aunt about boys, high school drama, sports... even shopping. I loved them dearly. As my aunt grew too old and frail to move out of bed, we would visit her in her bedroom. Often, my youngest brother would sleep next to her, having crawled into her bed in the middle of the night.

The two of them, my grandma and my aunt, were HILARIOUS. Especially as the dementia started setting in. Sounds terrible, I know, but it was so funny.
Soon, the aunt fell and broke her hip, things went down hill fast. She needed
24 hr care and my mom just couldn't do it anymore. She went into a care facility, we visited her as much as we could. She died about 1 year later.

My grandma died when I was a mother myself. The winding down years were hard on her, on my parents, on all of us. We learned from her strength, faith and courage. These kinds of lessons are priceless.

I loved having those two women in my life, even during the hard years. Life is supposed to be hard, that's how we learn and grow.

People will have different opinions of assisted suicide, it will be discussed probably forever. I'm so so so glad my grandma and aunt chose life and chose to share those last years with those of us who loved them most.
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  #67  
Old 19.06.2012, 20:34
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Re: Swiss canton passes first law on assisted suicide

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You call it cult. We call it evolution. Do you seriously believe that the world was created in 7 days?
Well, according to her profile, she also believes she is an African Queen!
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Old 19.06.2012, 20:37
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Re: Swiss canton passes first law on assisted suicide

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Well, according to her profile, she also believes she is an African Queen!
You couldn't resist checking out my profile, could you... ? Hotness
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Old 19.06.2012, 20:38
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Re: Swiss canton passes first law on assisted suicide

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You call it cult. We call it evolution. Do you seriously believe that the world was created in 7 days?
Well why are you asking me? Ask the cult follower(nil) an imposter, religion opportunist!
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Old 19.06.2012, 20:40
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Re: Swiss canton passes first law on assisted suicide

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You couldn't resist checking out my profile, could you... ? Hotness
Actually, no... I was just trying to figure out if you're really a midget (sorry, I mean "little person") or if you just look like one in your profile photo.
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  #71  
Old 19.06.2012, 20:47
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Re: Swiss canton passes first law on assisted suicide

My mother-in-law has chosen to have an assisted suicide tomorrow evening after a relatively short fight against inoperable stomach, liver and bowel cancel. She is 68 years old. She and I spent some time together on Monday to say our goodbyes. We shared a few tears (mainly mine) and a few laughs (mainly hers, laughing at me crying) When I eventually left, she gave me a smile; a gentle, peaceful smile. I've always believed a person should have the right to choose a dignified, assisted death. That perfect smile laid to rest ANY last few doubts I might have had.

Last edited by Dan of the dead; 19.06.2012 at 20:58. Reason: typo (must be the clouds in my eyes, Daniel)
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  #72  
Old 19.06.2012, 20:49
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Re: Swiss canton passes first law on assisted suicide

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Well why are you asking me? Ask the cult follower(nil) an imposter, religion opportunist!
How is that so?
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  #73  
Old 19.06.2012, 20:57
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Re: Swiss canton passes first law on assisted suicide

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Actually, no... I was just trying to figure out if you're really a midget (sorry, I mean "little person") or if you just look like one in your profile photo.
Take your pick. What has my look got to with anything?
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Old 19.06.2012, 21:03
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Re: Swiss canton passes first law on assisted suicide

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Take your pick. What has my look got to with anything?
You yourself wrote: "Couldn't resist looking at my profile. Hotness" -- (referring to yourself as being "hot").

And then you ask what your looks have to do with anything?

I actually took more interest in the fact that you refer to yourself as being an African Queen...

When I read that, it just kind of all came together and your posts started to make sense.
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  #75  
Old 19.06.2012, 22:14
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Re: Swiss canton passes first law on assisted suicide

One of the most cruel and difficult things for a dying person is when no one will discuss death frankly with him or her. Sometimes it's easier to shove a Bible in front of someone rather than to discuss the end of life. But we all have to face it. Those of us who are lucky will just keel over. Those of us who aren't had better think about what our preferences are.

I believe that palliative care - the area of medicine devoted to pain control, comfort, symptom control - is poorly understood and under utilized in most places, and in Switzerland especially. I think we need to involve palliative care earlier than we do.

As someone who's been diagnosed with cancer and is at some risk of recurrence - I do think about assisted suicide from time to time. For me, I'd first go the route of palliative care. Although I would not prolong a life where pain could not be controlled.

I have a friend who decided to end her life (with medical assistance) when her cancer became too painful and debilitating. She was a bright, intelligent woman, and I believe that for her, it was the best choice. If there is a hell, I wouldn't expect to find her there, and neither would I find her doctors there.

Dan, I hope your mil has a peaceful time. It's hard for all of you, but you've faced it, you support and love her. It's all you can do.
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Old 19.06.2012, 22:19
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Re: Swiss canton passes first law on assisted suicide

Not sure about lack of palliative care here in CH. In Neuchatel Canton we have a wonderful palliative care centre, La Chrysalide, where one of my good friends works- the care is absolutely top notch in all aspects and I am full of admiration for those guys.

www.palliative.ch
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Old 19.06.2012, 22:20
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Re: Swiss canton passes first law on assisted suicide

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I am a Protestant but I think is is NOT a fabulous idea. Refer to the Bible.
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For example, myself, I am not religious.
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  #78  
Old 19.06.2012, 22:40
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Re: Swiss canton passes first law on assisted suicide

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Not sure about lack of palliative care here in CH. In Neuchatel Canton we have a wonderful palliative care centre, La Chrysalide, where one of my good friends works- the care is absolutely top notch in all aspects and I am full of admiration for those guys.

www.palliative.ch

Thanks for the link. Might be more an issue in the German speaking part - or it might be among people with cancer in the German speaking part. Several women I know who've had breast cancer have discussed this, and a new oncologist in Basel specializes in palliative care. The idea is that it's not just for end of life - there's a lot about symptom control that just makes a huge difference in quality of life.
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Old 19.06.2012, 22:50
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Re: Swiss canton passes first law on assisted suicide

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On BBC news tonight, the plea of a man 'locked'in' after a massive stroke some years back asks for UK law to be changed so that the misery of his life can be ended, without his family to be charged with murder if they help him. And a few years back, Debbie Purdy, in the end stage of a debilitating disease that would and finally did, kill her by slow suffocation. Tragic.

And of course, Terry Pratchett the famous author, who is suffering from a rare form of Alzheimers. And so many others - who, in Switzerland, could legally ask for help to die peacefully in their own home and bed, surrounded by their family.

Not very good at putting links here, but could somebody find and post his plea, read at the Dimbleby Lecture last year by Tony Robinson (Baldrick of Black Adder) please - makes humble listening.

It is often said that Switzerland is way behind in many social concepts, but for once, they are way ahead and show true compassion. And another groan from Nia I suppose, oh dear.
I didn't see it on TV but is this is the story?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-18495973
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Old 19.06.2012, 22:58
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I didn't see it on TV but is this is the story?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-18495973
Yep .... quite sad really - especially as he's unlikely to get the court ruling that he (and his family) requires.
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