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  #101  
Old 24.06.2012, 22:33
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Re: Swiss canton passes first law on assisted suicide

I do sometimes wonder though where Exit draws the line.

My husband's niece was only aged 30 when she made use of their services.

She was not physically ill or in pain but physcologically ill, having been in a foster family and various homes since the age of 3 because her mother had schizophrenia and father totally negligent.

As a child she was very lively and was developing normally, managed an apprenticeship after which she had a sort of breakdown and became ill (although not schizophrenia inherited from her mother).

We were completely aghast and taken aback that she had been accepted as a candidate for Exit and had actually gone through with the suicide plan which she didn't tell us about beforehand.

The question arises then about psychiatric illnesses and the death wish and do feel that more regulation is needed in this area.
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  #102  
Old 25.06.2012, 08:01
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Re: Swiss canton passes first law on assisted suicide

I find this very difficult to believe that Exit would be involve in this, at all! Waiting for Odile.
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  #103  
Old 25.06.2012, 09:05
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Re: Swiss canton passes first law on assisted suicide

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I find this very difficult to believe that Exit would be involve in this, at all! Waiting for Odile.
Well, yes. We found it difficult to believe as well, but it is unfortunately true.
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  #104  
Old 25.06.2012, 10:04
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Re: Swiss canton passes first law on assisted suicide

Here is the text Exit has published on their homepage.

Das Bundesgericht gesteht jedermann zu, eine Begleitung beim Freitod in Anspruch zu nehmen.
Freitodhilfe darf gewährt werden, wenn die sterbewillige Person
  • weiss, was sie tut (Urteilsfähigkeit)
  • nicht aus dem Affekt handelt (Wohlerwogenheit)
  • einen dauerhaften Sterbewunsch hegt (Konstanz)
  • von Dritten nicht beeinflusst wird (Autonomie)
  • den Suizid eigenhändig ausführt (Handlungsfähigkeit)
Rein rechtlich dürfen also auch junge gesunde Menschen begleitet werden.

EXIT weiss aber um die hohe Verantwortung und hat sich deshalb mit Statuten und internen Richtlinien selber stark eingeschränkt. Zudem hält sich EXIT freiwillig in der ganzen Schweiz an die Sorgfaltskriterien, die in einer bilateralen Vereinbarung mit dem Standortkanton Zürich ausgehandelt worden sind.

EXIT begleitet einzig Menschen
  • mit hoffnungsloser Prognose
  • oder mit unerträglichen Beschwerden
  • oder mit unzumutbarer Behinderung
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  #105  
Old 25.06.2012, 11:24
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Re: Swiss canton passes first law on assisted suicide

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Who Is Eligible for this Option?
The Federal Supreme Court of Switzerland has recognised a person’s right to seek assistance to commit suicide.

Suicide assistance may be rendered whenever the person wishing to die
knows what he or she is doing (faculty of judgement)
does not act on impulse (due consideration)
has a persistent wish to die (constancy)
is not under the influence of any third party (autonomy)
commits suicide by his or her own hand (agency)

This means that even suicide assistance to young healthy people would technically be legal.

In full awareness of its enormous responsibility, however, EXIT has self-imposed restrictions through its by-laws and internal guidelines. Moreover, EXIT proactively orients itself to the diligence criteria that were negotiated in a bilateral agreement with the Canton of Zurich, where EXIT is seated.

EXIT will provide end-of-life care only to persons
with hopeless prognoses
or with unbearable symptoms
or with unacceptable disabilities

EXIT provides end-of-life care only to its members. Members must be at least 18 years of age, and either citizens or permanent residents of Switzerland. Long-term EXIT members are prioritised.

The Federal Supreme Court of Switzerland has ruled that suicide assistance may even be rendered to persons with a psychical illness as long as they retain the capacity to judge the significance of suicide.

The cases in which EXIT assists persons with a psychic disorder, though, are very rare (2 or 3 times a year) and subject to extremely diligent review. The preconditions to be met in such cases are extremely strict, and include two independent expert opinions as well as the verdict of the Society’s Ethics Commission.

You can read more on Exit
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  #106  
Old 25.06.2012, 20:11
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Re: Swiss canton passes first law on assisted suicide

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I find this very difficult to believe that Exit would be involve in this, at all! Waiting for Odile.
I am as shocked as you are. Totally wrong imho.
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  #107  
Old 26.06.2012, 08:04
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Re: Swiss canton passes first law on assisted suicide

Thinking back now there was a programme on TV 2-3 years ago where the TV team accompanied a physcologically ill man in the weeks before he went ahead with his planned suicide with Exit.

He'd been a successful businessman until in his mid 30s when he suddenly developed bi-polar disease. He lost his business and became reliant on friends for accommodation. Over the years he'd had periods of relative stability, then again periods where he completelyl"lost the plot" and ended up in physciatric hospitals.

He felt he didn't want to go on living like this and in his saner moments decided to end it all with Exit. The TV accompanied him on his last visits to friends and family and showed him going to his last destination in a rented room somewhere.

I also thought this was totally unnecessary and was surprised that Exit accepted this man as a candidate.

Perhaps though if someone is really determined to kill themselves they will find a way and maybe Exit thinks this way out is better than someone throwing themselves under a train.
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  #108  
Old 26.06.2012, 09:09
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Re: Swiss canton passes first law on assisted suicide

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Thinking back now there was a programme on TV 2-3 years ago where the TV team accompanied a physcologically ill man in the weeks before he went ahead with his planned suicide with Exit.

He'd been a successful businessman until in his mid 30s when he suddenly developed bi-polar disease. He lost his business and became reliant on friends for accommodation. Over the years he'd had periods of relative stability, then again periods where he completelyl"lost the plot" and ended up in physciatric hospitals.

He felt he didn't want to go on living like this and in his saner moments decided to end it all with Exit. The TV accompanied him on his last visits to friends and family and showed him going to his last destination in a rented room somewhere.

I also thought this was totally unnecessary and was surprised that Exit accepted this man as a candidate.

Perhaps though if someone is really determined to kill themselves they will find a way and maybe Exit thinks this way out is better than someone throwing themselves under a train.
Well, at this point, I totally disagree with it. The guy was mentally sick, he was bi-polar. This is not something one can't control. There is great meds on the market who help thousands of people with this sickness. It is not a disease or a sickness that one have no hope to get better, no chances to fonction and be a fully member of the society with full capacity.

Society gave up on him, he didn't get the help he should had have. He got the wrong help if this is what happened.

Sad.
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  #109  
Old 26.06.2012, 10:40
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Re: Swiss canton passes first law on assisted suicide

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Well, at this point, I totally disagree with it. The guy was mentally sick, he was bi-polar. This is not something one can't control. There is great meds on the market who help thousands of people with this sickness. It is not a disease or a sickness that one have no hope to get better, no chances to fonction and be a fully member of the society with full capacity.

Society gave up on him, he didn't get the help he should had have. He got the wrong help if this is what happened.

Sad.
You're making an assumption that he didn't get treatment, that may not have been the case. I haven't seen the programme so I don't know if he did or not. But even if he did have treatment available it doesn't always mean people want to use it. Isn't that what this discussion is all about? We know people can be kept alive hooked up to dozens of machines and tubes for years, but that doesn't necessarily mean we want to live like that and I can see that being the same for some mental illnesses. Terry Pratchett has said he wants to make the decision for himself regarding his Alzheimer's and I don't see why other people can't make the same choice regarding other mental illness. So long as there are procedures in place to make sure it is their decision when in sound mind with no coercion then that is every person's choice.
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  #110  
Old 26.06.2012, 11:10
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Re: Swiss canton passes first law on assisted suicide

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You're making an assumption that he didn't get treatment, that may not have been the case. I haven't seen the programme so I don't know if he did or not. But even if he did have treatment available it doesn't always mean people want to use it. Isn't that what this discussion is all about? We know people can be kept alive hooked up to dozens of machines and tubes for years, but that doesn't necessarily mean we want to live like that and I can see that being the same for some mental illnesses. Terry Pratchett has said he wants to make the decision for himself regarding his Alzheimer's and I don't see why other people can't make the same choice regarding other mental illness. So long as there are procedures in place to make sure it is their decision when in sound mind with no coercion then that is every person's choice.
I draw the line of my opinion somewhere else on this topic.
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Old 26.06.2012, 11:21
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Re: Swiss canton passes first law on assisted suicide

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Well, at this point, I totally disagree with it. The guy was mentally sick, he was bi-polar. This is not something one can't control. There is great meds on the market who help thousands of people with this sickness. It is not a disease or a sickness that one have no hope to get better, no chances to fonction and be a fully member of the society with full capacity.

Society gave up on him, he didn't get the help he should had have. He got the wrong help if this is what happened.

Sad.
It is sad, but we don't really know the whole story. Bi-polar meds are getting better all the time, but the side effects can be difficult and lots of people can't or won't stay on their meds. It's a notoriously difficult disease to treat. Suicide is pretty high among people who are bi-polar. There may be people for whom the disease is more than they can bear, even with meds.

With end of life care, a statistic I've often seen is that the desire to commit suicide decreases when treatment for depression and pain control are successful. But I can imagine that for some people the pain from a mental illness is every bit as great as the pain from say, bone cancer, and as difficult to control.

It's a slippery slope, though, and most of us have a very difficult time accepting ending the life of a physically healthy person with a severe mental illness. Does this differ from ending the life of someone with Alzheimer's who is otherwise healthy?
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  #112  
Old 26.06.2012, 11:25
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Re: Swiss canton passes first law on assisted suicide

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God does not like people who judge or overuse groans. It makes him sad to see one of his children try to force beliefs on another.
But is he not the ultimate judge? Although at least his groans are backed by the power of unleashing plagues of locusts or he can just flood the world.
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  #113  
Old 26.06.2012, 11:26
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Re: Swiss canton passes first law on assisted suicide

Definitely a tough call of what is considered a good state of life, and what choice the individual or their family (who might have to care for them) in how it will affect their standard of living.

I know of two cases (30 years apart) in Canada. In the first one, a young child is diagnosed with a rare aggressive cancer. The parents decide to deny Chemo/radiation therapy due to the negative effects and stress on the infant and the overall healthcare system.

The second case, just recently a preteen requested no chemo/radiation after previous sessions. His parents respected this, but were overruled by the healthcare profession to the point where children's services were involved and the child was placed in protective custody to receive the treatment.

Not right on topic of assisted suicide, but two sides of similar concepts.
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  #114  
Old 30.06.2012, 23:29
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Re: Swiss canton passes first law on assisted suicide

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For example, myself, I am not religious. Religion is a human tradition added to the church at it has nothing to do with the faith. You won't be saved by the rosaries, prayers to all saints, to Mary, athough there is no need to neglect her role in the birth of Jesus: she accepted God's will.
All people, including me, we are sinners et even good works won't lead us to Heaven. Good works should be fruits of faith.
Only Jesus Christ saves.
If there is a pastor or priest who truly believes in God, they won't hurt an ill person in a nursing home. Their prayers can bring a relief to ill people. The problem arises when there is a pastor or priest who abuse the vulnerable people. Jesus named them "the wolves in sheep's clothing" (Gospel of Matthew 7:15). Not only they can hurt a vulnerable person but they also set a bad example to the people seeking God.
You clearly are religious
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  #115  
Old 01.07.2012, 01:21
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Re: Swiss canton passes first law on assisted suicide

I hope someone already did this, but in case it hasn't happened yet, I think linking this post to the Swiss assisted suicide stats - a first ever thread would add to the discussion in a positive way
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